5 Small, But Crucial Cardio Mistakes

[Lisa~]

bipennate, I just wanted to give you a pat on the back for all the time and effort you've put into this conversation. You've patiently put up some excellent and persuasive information. The articles you linked were very well researched and if Frank really wants to know if HIIT is muscle sparing then the studies are all listed in Alan Aragon's detailed article (which I just finished studying - very good stuff!).

Lisa

[Frank.S]

What about the effects on CNS of HIIT? Should we just ignore them? "Lets burn out our cns to get 5% more fat loss!"


From Eric Cressey '7 reasons your a weaking' on t-nation:




In fact, find me a single successful powerlifter who's doing HIIT and I'll gladly find you a free 48 oz. steak and let you eat it while I munch on humble pie. Don't tell me that HIIT won't interfere with your strength and speed gains. If you're going to do HIIT, you need to accept that you're ultimately going to be riding two horses with one ass.


I can't tell you how many times I've seen lifters (myself included) who've dropped HIIT altogether and seen immediate, rapid improvements in maximal strength and speed (and not gained body fat because diet was on-point).


HIIT has its place, but you need to consider how this piece fits into the puzzle or, if strength is a priority, if it even belongs in your puzzle in the first place. Your body has a limited recovery capacity; make use of it wisely

I would agree with him for sure. Now instead of that HIIT throw in some low intensity cardio in the mornings. Do you think that the big lifts are going to go down? I dont.



And on the vomiting thing. It happens all the time when your doing max effort anything. Search HIIT and vomiting on google im sure you get hits. Just like when your doing a heavy squat somtimes a garbage can is nice to have close by.


I will disagree forever that 'steady state cardio is a waste of time' its not. For you it may be less effective, for me its more.

[bipennate]

Originally Posted by Frank.S

What about the effects on CNS of HIIT? Should we just ignore them? "Lets burn out our cns to get 5% more fat loss!"

And if you work out every day, 7 days a week, you're going to take a hit (no pun intended...well, maybe just a little) on your recovery too...what's your point? When did i advocate multiple HIIT sessions/week? Further, when did I say that ss wasn't a good option??? I wrote that fasted ss wasn't worth it (read my original post again). You're grasping at straws and building a strawman here, Frank. And I'd agree with Eric: if you're working out as intense as a competitive powerlifter, I wouldn't suggest any HIIT either...but that's a sport-specific model, and a training style that most of us aren't doing. Further more, we're talking muscle hypertrophy, which is related, but not the same specifically, as strength training...Exercise intensity on the workout design is a fundemental aspect of programming...and I'll add to the quote: show me a powerlifter that performs fasted cardio, and I'll add a nice potato and a side-salad to that T-Bone steak for you.

Perhaps you'll enjoy reading this:
http://www.mindandmuscle.net/mindand...1&artID=999274
http://www.mindandmuscle.net/mindand...5&artID=999309

"It should hopefully be evident by this point that since AMPk is activated in an intensity-dependent manner in response to increased cellular creatine: phosphocreatine (PCr) and AMP:ATP ratios, in terms of effectively achieving significant and systemic AMPk activation, sprinting really is king in spades [Author’s note: for those who have recently suffered an injury and/or regularly experience joint and ligament problems, both high-intensity swimming and iron or clean cardio can be utilized as serviceable HII alternates to replace sprint work in your split that will achieve similar effects on cellular energy state signaling](5,). It’s also the adaptive nature of AMPk-activity that makes it such a potent phenotype-augmenting force. While it generally remains inactive as a substrate-source shifter during periods of high intensity exercise due to the spikes and dips in cellular Ph that accompany rapid PCr/ATP turnover, during the post-workout period this little kinase immediately begins to pull every enzymatic trick up its sleeve. It does this in an attempt to simultaneously replenish, bolster, AND protect your muscle cells so that they’ll be better able to respond to future situations that require similarly high degrees of rapid fuel and substrate turnover (7). "

In other words, AMPK signals the body to store glycogen, which is muscle sparing, while promoting lipolysis in the post-workout EPOC period. Fasted ss? The opposite occurs.

Finally, you talk of vomiting like it's some sort of "badge of honor" here, indicating "intense" work...where originally you wrote that it wasn't good to vomit. You're contridicting yourself. Do you understand the physiological causes of vomiting in the first place?

If you believe that fasted ss helped you lose weight, then that's great. But trying to argue with innacurate physiology isn't going to work.

[Frank.S]

Where is my potato and side salad?

Ok I give (and thats saying something for me). Youve proved your point.

I still find it hard to beleive though. Ive never seen better results then doing early morning fasted cardio. Weight dropping, no loss in stregnth etc. Plus I could actually have the motivation to do it.

All I can say is that there is alot of bad information regarding fasted steady state cardio on in internet. People with full on doctorates are advising it, even on diet plans (velocity comes to mind) they advise not to do anything more then low intensity fasted steady state.

Badge of honor? hahaha. No I dont understand the causes I always thought it was just a 'your working way to hard f*%^ this". Defenatley not somthing to be proud of, its prety attractive on max squat day in the gym, do a max squat, let out a huge amount of gas at the bottom, half way up get a nose bleed, rack the bar and puke. How the hell do I have a girlfriend.

[BFG]

Originally Posted by Frank.S

I will say it worked VERY well for me.

I do know that glycogen stores are going to take more then 12 hourse to deplete fully (probally take a few days). But without a doubt they will be lower then the steady state cardio will burn them off quicker and move to fat.

Im always scared to do cardio with any intensity, the fact that I 'couid' risk muscle loss is not worth it to me.

wasnt knocking the intensity but the fasted cardio!

all this long steady state v HIIT argument when it comes down to it I wonder what the actual calorific burn difference is I bet it is negligble at the end of the day.

if you want efficient fat loss dont run just eat less and maintain your muscle mass by weight training hard and heavy

[BFG]

OK Im gonna stick my neck out here but I really doubt that any of us non competing gym people are anywhere near in danger of actual CNS failure its just another buzz word for want of a better term thats been blown out of proportion to the masses as far as I have read so far.

[Cynic]

Originally Posted by BFG

OK Im gonna stick my neck out here but I really doubt that any of us non competing gym people are anywhere near in danger of actual CNS failure its just another buzz word for want of a better term thats been blown out of proportion to the masses as far as I have read so far.

I'll stick my neck out and say you're wrong, because there are a lot of people out there doing crappy routines, 6-7 days a week, overtaxing and not giving sufficient time for recovery.

I see a lot on MH (no one criticize the site please) and I do what I can to point them toward professionaly made routines with the reasons as to why they should do them.

[BFG]

Cynic I was referring to people on here not general populus. I agree if someone is doing the same routine every single day for an hour or more then there is an element of risk, but again how much?

Not allowing recovery yes I agree thats bad but CNS failure????????

[Cynic]

Originally Posted by BFG

Cynic I was referring to people on here not general populus.

My mistake. I just assumed the 'us' meant joe weekender flag football player.