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Old 07-03-2006, 04:17 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Form Critique: Sumo DLs and BO Rows.

The last time I asked for a critique on my Sumos, someone suggested I posted another with a heavier load. I tried to remain conscious of glute activation toward the top of the lift by thrusting my hips forward more so than pulling my back back.

I did the same for BO rows, because I'm not sure if I'm moving too much.

I'm also using this opportunity to experiment and play with MS Movie Maker.

Sumo Deadlifts
Bent over Rows (pronated)
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Old 07-03-2006, 04:55 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Like the home gym.

I'd have the ass lower at the start of the sumos.

Definitely too much back movement in the BO rows.
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Old 07-03-2006, 05:13 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Sumo's look pretty good. Irish, why would you have the ass lower on them?

I think the BO Rows look pretty solid too, is there really a noticable amount of back movement?
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Old 07-03-2006, 12:24 PM   #4 (permalink)
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I'm no expert...just the way I do them...more leg less back.

The BO rows are using the lower back good morning fashion instead of isolating the upper back.

An opinion, for what it's worth.
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Old 07-03-2006, 12:32 PM   #5 (permalink)
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On sumos: I cannot see your foot position, so I can't comment on knee alignment. I hope all is well there.
Focus on getting up with your shoulders and butt at the same time. Right now you have two stages:you get up with your butt and your back completes the move. Since I don't have a video of me doing sumos, here is a side DL,but you can see how shoulders and butt move together. Hope this makes sense. http://spidersport.com/side-deadlift.php
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Old 07-03-2006, 01:23 PM   #6 (permalink)
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I agree with Irishdazza. Your form on both looks pretty good, but could be a touch better. Try looking at it this way once. Watch your SDL video and hit pause just as you apply tension to initiate the lift. Mentally draw the lever lines and fulcrums through your body and see if you don't think dropping the hip fulcrum just a bit wouldn't create a more efficient set of angles.

Your rows look fairly good too, aside from that first set, where there definitely is too much upper body movement. Personally, I don't think a slight sway is inherently bad, but it does look like you're using a little too much lower back to initiate the movement. Try this experiment. Drop the weight maybe 10-15 lbs. just for this so you can get a better feel for it first. Lock yourself into position, pinch your shoulder blades together, and try to pump out a set with a piston-like rhythm. I think you may find you can eliminate the sway like this, even at your heavier levels. Works for me anyway.

Nice home gym, love them PowerBlocks. Is that their bench too, can't quite tell.
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Old 07-03-2006, 01:33 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Thanks so far all.

I see what your saying Galya, I'll try to keep that in mind. I might drop 5-10lbs to focus more on that.

No Spank, that is a Body-Solid GFID-71.

This thing:


Fitness Factory has free shipping on a lot of B-S equipment, so when I got my tax refund, I splurged.

Last edited by Cynic : 07-03-2006 at 01:47 PM.
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Old 07-03-2006, 01:34 PM   #8 (permalink)
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The DLs look decent, but you're definitely coming up on your toes a bit. Change to a flatter shoe or just pull barefoot and that'll resolve pretty quickly.
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Old 07-03-2006, 01:45 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Next paycheck I'll look into some Chuck Taylors.
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Old 07-03-2006, 02:28 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Best $35 you'll ever spend.
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Old 07-03-2006, 03:17 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Can't find them over here and lifting in sweaty socks would be dodgy - lifting in bare feet frowned upon.

Ho hum...see I must be super to lift with such handicaps!!!
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Old 07-03-2006, 05:15 PM   #12 (permalink)
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I think what Galya and Eric are seeing is part of the same thing. You're starting with the bar just a bit away from your shins. Then as you begin the pull, you're shifting your hips and your center of gravity forward just a bit, bringing you toward your toes. New shoes will definitely help. But so will a starting position with the bar against your shins. Sit your hips down a bit lower and begin the pull by coming back into your body. Then upward motion should be even for your head and hips.

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Last edited by Lisa~ : 07-03-2006 at 05:29 PM.
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Old 07-03-2006, 05:21 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Both your lifts are really pretty solid.

On your bentover rows I see the exact same issue as your sumo deadlift, you're coming forward onto your toes. Just shift your center of gravity back slightly by pushing your hips back. Center yourself on your feet or err towards your heels. You'll have a more solid base to pull from, so more control and less movement (there isn't excessive movement really).

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Old 07-03-2006, 05:28 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cynic
I tried to remain conscious of glute activation toward the top of the lift by thrusting my hips forward more so than pulling my back back.
On your sumo's, the above is good advice, but focus on glute activation at the start of the move also, sitting back, pulling towards your shins, head goes up first. This little bit from Dave Tate's Top 10 Deadlifting Mistakes might help.

Quote:
Mistake #5: Not pulling the bar back
The deadlift is all about leverage and positioning. Visualize a teeter totter. What happens when the weight on one end is coming down? The other end goes up. So if your body is falling backward, what happens to the bar? It goes up! If your weight is falling forward the bar will want to stay down. So if you weigh 250 pounds and you can get your bodyweight to work for you, it would be much like taking 250 pounds off the bar. For many natural deadlifters this is a very instinctive action. For others it has to be trained.

For some lifters, not being able to pull back can be a muscular thing. If you're like myself, I tend to end up with the weight on the front of my feet instead of my heels. This is a function of my quads trying to overpower the glutes and hamstrings, or the glutes and hamstrings not being able to finish the weight and shifting to the quads to complete the lift. What will happen many times is you'll begin shaking or miss the weight. To fix this problem you need to add in more glute ham raises, pull-throughs and reverse hypers.
I hope that helps.

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Old 07-03-2006, 05:46 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lisa~
Sit your hips down a bit lower and begin the pull by coming back into your body. Then upward motion should be even for your head and hips.

Lisa
The one problem I have is my hip adductors seem kind of tight. As my legs spread out, trying to squat that low is difficult and somewhat painful.
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Old 07-03-2006, 05:49 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lisa~
To fix this problem you need to add in more glute ham raises, pull-throughs and reverse hypers.
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I don't have the equipment to do these. Would stiff leg DLs and/or good mornings suffice?
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Old 07-03-2006, 05:50 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Ummmm, foam roll those adductors!

And for now, sit back and down as far as you can. Lots of big guys don't sit any lower than you do, but they don't put their hips up first. You can still pull back first and use your glutes hard.

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Old 07-05-2006, 07:42 AM   #18 (permalink)
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I picked up a pair of Chuck's and did DL"s today. You can really feel the difference. Like Lisa said I was able to sit back a little more and push through the heels for the whole lift. Definitely worth the investment. Plus, they're really stylin'.
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Old 07-05-2006, 07:54 AM   #19 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cynic
I don't have the equipment to do these. Would stiff leg DLs and/or good mornings suffice?
Those are good choices too. But you can probably find a way to do a GHR if you really want to. One way would be to load your barbell with lots of weight, enough you hold you down, and put it on the floor. You might need to brace it in some fashion, like putting little plates up against the load so that it can't roll. Put down a towel or pad for your knees. Hook your feet under the barbell and do the GHRs. Get it?

There have been lots of suggestions for at-home ways to do GHRs. If you don't like that one I'll try to remember some of the other ways, lol.

You can do pull-throughs with jump stretch bands attached to anything sturdy. If you don't have any, I recommend the purchase. They offer up a whole lot of options for a home gym. You get a lot of potential exercises for a very small investment.

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Old 07-05-2006, 07:56 AM   #20 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cynic
I don't have the equipment to do these. Would stiff leg DLs and/or good mornings suffice?
Oh yeah, forgot the reverse hypers. Do you have a swiss ball? You can do reverse hypers with a swiss ball up on a bench. It isn't nearly as good as the real thing, but it feels good, lol. I love these actually. I add ankle weights, but it might even be possible to hold a db between your feet if bodyweight doesn't do it for you.

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Old 07-05-2006, 09:18 AM   #21 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cynic
Next paycheck I'll look into some Chuck Taylors.
Try barefoot before you spend the money.
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Old 07-05-2006, 08:49 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lisa~
There have been lots of suggestions for at-home ways to do GHRs. If you don't like that one I'll try to remember some of the other ways, lol.
The angle on the leg holds on my bench is fairly decent. I might, might, be able to do hypers using that.


I'll look into the bands a few paychecks from now (saving for a Niagara Falls trip).
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Old 07-05-2006, 08:50 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Quote:
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I picked up a pair of Chuck's and did DL"s today. You can really feel the difference. Like Lisa said I was able to sit back a little more and push through the heels for the whole lift. Definitely worth the investment. Plus, they're really stylin'.
OG, do you feel a greater balance with CTs?
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Old 07-05-2006, 09:45 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Quote:
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OG, do you feel a greater balance with CTs?
Definitely. Plus I stalled a little on one rep going up but just kept pushing through the floor to get it completed. Had a much better feel of the floor which I didn't get from my crosstrainers.
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Old 07-05-2006, 11:49 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Quote:
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Try barefoot before you spend the money.
I can't wear Chucks because my feet are too wide, but I've been doing them barefoot for the past month. It makes quite a difference.
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Old 07-06-2006, 03:07 AM   #26 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lost_Dog
I can't wear Chucks because my feet are too wide, but I've been doing them barefoot for the past month. It makes quite a difference.
Problem, if the day is too hot and humid, I'll go to the gym. I gotta have shoes. I'll have to call around here.
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Old 07-06-2006, 08:02 AM   #27 (permalink)
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Adidas Sambas work well, too.
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Old 07-06-2006, 11:08 AM   #28 (permalink)
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Randob over at MH raves about Nike Free's
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Old 07-07-2006, 12:21 AM   #29 (permalink)
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Don't Nike Frees have a big ol' cushy heal? For running?
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Old 07-08-2006, 08:05 AM   #30 (permalink)
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GHR the homemade way. (If you have access to a power/squat rack). Set the safety catch on the lowest setting on one side and set another safety catch 2 above it. The lower one will anchor your feet the higher one will be used for a band. Put mats inside the rack to raise your feet up and provide comfort. I also put a pad just below knees.
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