I'm a distance runner just starting out with a weight lifting routine. I'm looking to strengthen my core with DL's, BP's, and Squats basically. I was doing some reading about overhead-squats and they seem to fit into what I want to accomplish but at the same time they seem a little risky. Does any have any experience/comments about these?
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I'm not really sure what you mean by risky. If you use a proper weight and learn the movement there should be little to no risk. What I found while doing overhead squats is that a certain degree of flexibility is needed which came naturally the more I did them.
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By risky I mean that until I can get accustom to the exercise the chances of getting hurt seem to be high doing these...but then again I guess this is true with just about any type of movement.
Do you feel they are beneficial? They would seem to really hit the stabilizing muscles.
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There's also the overhead siff lunge. It's a lunge, but with a bar overhead, arms locked and with a wide grip. Do the whole lunge up on the toes, rather than flat footed. The weight will be pretty low, as you've got a lot of balancing going on, but you'll feel it in the core the next day.
I'm not a trainer, but I would think that if you have minimal weight training experience, you might want to start with some normal squats and build up that way before tackling the overhead squats.
Hey 'Thanks' LD.....practicing with a broomstick is a great idea!
jruck-- I've been doing squats, benching, and dl'ing steadily since around the beginning of the year. Just wanted to add something to break up the monotony.
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Your desire to change must be greater than your desire to stay the same.
Hey 'Thanks' LD.....practicing with a broomstick is a great idea!
jruck-- I've been doing squats, benching, and dl'ing steadily since around the beginning of the year. Just wanted to add something to break up the monotony.
back squats ---> front squats---> OH Squats. Make sure you have flexibility to front and back squats atg first. Then you should be fine as long as you have shoulder flexibility and Core Stability. And learn how to do a Snatch Grip Push Press to get them up. Look straight ahead and pull the bar apart
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"...this is the way it goes, sometimes you're flush, and sometimes you're bust... and when your up its never as good as it seems... and when your down you never think you can be up again, but life goes on, remember that..."
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"...this is the way it goes, sometimes you're flush, and sometimes you're bust... and when your up its never as good as it seems... and when your down you never think you can be up again, but life goes on, remember that..."
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"...this is the way it goes, sometimes you're flush, and sometimes you're bust... and when your up its never as good as it seems... and when your down you never think you can be up again, but life goes on, remember that..."
If he's looking for core work, he won't need this progression. A light weight, overhead, will give the core work you need.
As to the push press. I've got no issue with it, but learn it from the front first, not behind the back. As a learning tool for Olympic Lifts, maybe that behind the back one is valueable. I don't do Oly lifts, so I won't speculate much.
Unless you need work on that movement pattern to accomplish some other goal, I wouldn't do any pressing behind the neck.
i second the in front method, i OH squat from either a snatch or clean+press, i dont do the drop under method when OH squating, but im not saying its not bad, because i have done it i just dont like it.
Easy behind neck because the bars just got to go straight you don't have to go back.
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"...this is the way it goes, sometimes you're flush, and sometimes you're bust... and when your up its never as good as it seems... and when your down you never think you can be up again, but life goes on, remember that..."
I guess its preference. I go a lot heavier than my Snatch. So I'd much rather take it out of the rack in the grip that I'm going use to OH Squat.
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"...this is the way it goes, sometimes you're flush, and sometimes you're bust... and when your up its never as good as it seems... and when your down you never think you can be up again, but life goes on, remember that..."
It puts your shoulders in a compromising position, especially with a wider grip.
Plus, a push press allows you to lift heavier than a simple press. When that heavier weight comes back down, I'd rather have it land on my chest than my neck.
If he's looking for core work, he won't need this progression. A light weight, overhead, will give the core work you need.
Depends. If he cant stay upright in either of the first two squats, he sure isnt going to do much with the OH squat. He'll be looking like Zhang Guozhang, but with a broomstick.
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As to the push press. I've got no issue with it, but learn it from the front first, not behind the back. As a learning tool for Olympic Lifts, maybe that behind the back one is valueable. I don't do Oly lifts, so I won't speculate much.
They both have value, but yeah Id teach the PP from the front first.
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Unless you need work on that movement pattern to accomplish some other goal, I wouldn't do any pressing behind the neck.
Its actually easier on the wrist than a PP from the front because the bar is resting on the shoulders as you dip. Additionally youre not pressing until the bar clears your head. If you have a problem with shoulder flexiblility in a narrow grip squat then you have an issue, bit if its fine then pressing is not that bad. Furthermore, the bar travels a very efficient path (straight up).
Basically, if you have the flexibility to do it, then you can.
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"Just remember, somewhere there is a little Chinese girl warming up with your max."-Jim Convroy
"It's a round hole, dammit. Everyone fits."--Anonymous Mod at Strengthmill
In a behind the neck snatch grip push press, there is minimal "pressing behind the neck" The weight will be directly overhead before your arms are doing much pressing, as the initial movement will result from a leg drive the will get the bar most of the way to lockout. Probably all of the way to lockout with a loat that most people are going to be overhead squatting.
I also don't think the progression "back squats ---> front squats---> OH Squats" is necessary, and often times suggest just the opposite. In my opinion, the overhead squat will "force" a more technically desirable squat than a back squat. I also think a front squat or plate squat is better for learning the movement pattern than a back squat.
Good luck, I love overhead squatting. Start out light, but I would not worry about injuring yourself. Greater care needs to be given to the weights though. I OH Squat heavy, and rely on the fact that I have bumpers to allow me to drop the weight. I have never come close to dropping it on myself, but without bumpers and a platform I would have a broken floor or plates. Here are some overhead squats I did in December, showing a few drops.
Ryan, I loved that video. Beautiful push press. And if you were going to do a heavy OH squat, then taking the load out of the rack like a back squat and push pressing it up would be the way to go.
But since Buzz stated that he's
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a distance runner just starting out with a weight lifting routine. I'm looking to strengthen my core
then I'd have to agree with LD that lifting a light load from the front will be sufficient for now.
buk that is some nice squatting. Some weightlifing shoes would keep you heels down.
__________________
"...this is the way it goes, sometimes you're flush, and sometimes you're bust... and when your up its never as good as it seems... and when your down you never think you can be up again, but life goes on, remember that..."
GQ check out my video of my light C&J. Give some feedback. This is one of the first times I've jerked it b/c of my program
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"...this is the way it goes, sometimes you're flush, and sometimes you're bust... and when your up its never as good as it seems... and when your down you never think you can be up again, but life goes on, remember that..."
Some weightlifing shoes would keep you heels down.
I often think about getting some shoes, but I don't need them as much as that video indicates. I was nusrsing a hip injury(left hip) at the time that was affecting all of my movements.
If you are watching my videos, look at my feet and know that that is not good. Your heels should remain firmly planted on the ground. I rolled to the outside of the front of my foot during most of those lifts.
Oh okay. Weightlifting shoes would also make you feel a lot more secure push it up. But man I've never seen someone who wasn't a competitive weight lifter Overhead that much.
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"...this is the way it goes, sometimes you're flush, and sometimes you're bust... and when your up its never as good as it seems... and when your down you never think you can be up again, but life goes on, remember that..."
GQ check out my video of my light C&J. Give some feedback. This is one of the first times I've jerked it b/c of my program
Link?
__________________
"The strongest steel goes through the hottest fires."-Anonymous
"When you begin to believe nothing is heavy, all weights become light." -Rossbow
"Just remember, somewhere there is a little Chinese girl warming up with your max."-Jim Convroy
"It's a round hole, dammit. Everyone fits."--Anonymous Mod at Strengthmill
__________________
"...this is the way it goes, sometimes you're flush, and sometimes you're bust... and when your up its never as good as it seems... and when your down you never think you can be up again, but life goes on, remember that..."
Host the vid somewhere like putfile or yousendit. Myspace is a little bitch to get into.
__________________
"The strongest steel goes through the hottest fires."-Anonymous
"When you begin to believe nothing is heavy, all weights become light." -Rossbow
"Just remember, somewhere there is a little Chinese girl warming up with your max."-Jim Convroy
"It's a round hole, dammit. Everyone fits."--Anonymous Mod at Strengthmill
Why have a distance runner overhead squat in the first place?
For one thing you don't want them to be too flexible which is a requirement of your typical overhead squat. They should only flexible enough for an optimal gain pattern. Any additional flexibility simply reduces muscle stiffness that they use to produce efficient running. Stiffer connective tissues improve running economy (more ground covered with less effort). Heavy partial range exercises and force absorption exercises are great for runners. If typical core protocols are not satisfactory or not advanced enough, try asymmetrically loaded lunging or barbell lunges with chains hanging off the floor which require greater stability.
Depends. If he cant stay upright in either of the first two squats, he sure isnt going to do much with the OH squat. He'll be looking like Zhang Guozhang, but with a broomstick.
True, but if he can't stay upright in the first two, then he needs to do something other than ANY of these squats. He needs to work on the issue with other mobility exercises.
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Originally Posted by GqArtguy
Its actually easier on the wrist than a PP from the front because the bar is resting on the shoulders as you dip. Additionally youre not pressing until the bar clears your head. If you have a problem with shoulder flexiblility in a narrow grip squat then you have an issue, bit if its fine then pressing is not that bad. Furthermore, the bar travels a very efficient path (straight up).
I agree with all that you said. Getting the bar up there for the OH Squat is one thing. But actually doing a PP from behind is my issue. If you do too much, it's harder to save yourself, particularly if you don't have bumper plates. It would seem easier to recover down to your chest, quickly, rather than lower to your back quickly, where the bar could hit your neck. While the safest thing would be to just drop it and safe yourself, most people instinctively try to catch it.
OH Squats
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