JP Fitness Forums powered by fitness insite  
Google
 
Web forums.jpfitness.com

Go Back   JP Fitness Forums > Fitness > Training Discussion
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read

Training Discussion Ask workout questions or share your knowledge.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 05-23-2006, 01:58 PM   #1 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Overland Park, KS
Posts: 273
Default Exercises for lateral quickness and agility?

Are there any good exercises to increase lateral quickness? I get beat off the dribble too much in basketball. I keep my center of gravity and I slide my feet, but I can't keep up often. Are there any good drills and exercises I can do in my spare time to help improve this? I'm already focusing on explosive lifts and max power lifts a couple nights of the week to help my overall explosiveness. Maybe I should add more rotational core work?
kmfisher is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2006, 02:10 PM   #2 (permalink)
Has Pretty Lips
 
gobbla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 9,042
Default

check out Buk's logs (page 2 I think) and watch his plyo drills.
gobbla is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2006, 02:12 PM   #3 (permalink)
Buk
Jumpman Jr.
 
Buk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Blacksburg, VA
Posts: 3,066
Default

Here are some of the plyometric exercises that I am currently doing for quickness and agility. Check my log for the programming and frequency. Last week I started getting into the single leg variations along with more lateral drills. The plyometric training and the footwork pratice are having a noticable positive impact.

EDIT: Dang, I got distracted at work and Gobbla beat me to the submit button.
__________________
Low expectations yield insignificant results
Buk is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2006, 02:25 PM   #4 (permalink)
Has Pretty Lips
 
gobbla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 9,042
Default

hahahaha...you may be bigger and stronger and faster and better looking than me, but my internet surfing skills are second to none!!!

in case you're really interested in this sort of thing I *just* ordered these
training for speed\agility\quickness book dvd combo
and
jumping into plyometrics

they may be good, may suck, but probibly not going to get dumber reading up on'em.
gobbla is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2006, 02:29 PM   #5 (permalink)
Buk
Jumpman Jr.
 
Buk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Blacksburg, VA
Posts: 3,066
Default

I train every day to improve my internet surfing skills. I will equal you some day.

I hear good things about Chu's book. He is who most people think of when the topic of plyometric training comes up. I have looked through it a few times at the store, but have a few other books. I have the book from your "Training for Speed, Agility, and Quickness" Book/DVD set. It has been a while since I have looked at it. There are tons of drills in it, but I can't remember if I liked the programmin in it or not.
__________________
Low expectations yield insignificant results
Buk is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Old 05-23-2006, 09:54 PM   #6 (permalink)
Power to the pedals!
 
Kaiser's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: City of Broad Shoulders
Posts: 9,227
Default

I have both of those books and they are both good. The first one is much more technical - the Chu book is simply exercises.
__________________
Yep, this is my signature:

Kaiser is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-2006, 09:51 AM   #7 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Overland Park, KS
Posts: 273
Default

Thanks for the help. I think I'm going to try to implement the plyo/footwork drills a couple of times per week. Has the vertical plyo work improved your lateral movement at all? I have a pretty solid vertical jump (two-handed dunk is no problem), and I don't think it will improve from plyo work too much. I mostly need to improve my strength levels and exposive training for that to increase.
kmfisher is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-2006, 10:06 AM   #8 (permalink)
Buk
Jumpman Jr.
 
Buk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Blacksburg, VA
Posts: 3,066
Default

The vertical, horizontal, quickness, and acceleration is all related and has some crossover; with different emphasis. Doing all four, it is impossible to say how much any one mode of work is contributing to each result. But with limited time and workout energy, if my primary need was quickness I would focus on the quickness and the power transition drills, along with maybe some dot drills and a few things that incorporated backward movement, and chaos drills(if I had a partner).

Just kind of as an asside, what makes you believe that your vertical is limited by strength more than plyometric abilities? Some typical questions are: Are you naturally a one-footed or two-footed jumper, what is your standing vertical compared to your 18 inch box jump vertical, how long does a 1RM full squat attempt take, how long for 60% for 3 reps?
__________________
Low expectations yield insignificant results
Buk is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-2006, 10:34 AM   #9 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Overland Park, KS
Posts: 273
Default

Well, my plyo abilities could improve, but with limited time I know my strength is greatly lacking. I have limited training time (there are complaints if I dedicate too much time), so I chose to practice basketball more than train. I have rarely done squats or deadlifts in the last 6 months, and my numbers are way way down from where they were. I've got a little hiatus from basketball for a few weeks, so I'm reincorporating strength training and plan to train through the season (the schedule is much better for it).

For example, I used to be able to squat 225 for 3 sets of 8, but now I can't manage 185 for 3 sets of 8. Deadlifts are down from a 1 RM of 340 and 5x5 of 315 to a 5x5 of 245 and 1 RM around 275. I need to get my numbers back up across the board. Realistically, I think I can get myself up to squats of 255 for 5x5 and deadlifts of 340 for 5x5 by September if I train regularly and that would greatly enhance my game.
kmfisher is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-2006, 11:05 AM   #10 (permalink)
Has Pretty Lips
 
gobbla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 9,042
Default

if your numbers are way down but you're agility\quickness\jumping is the same then it kind of makes you believe that it's not your overall strength that's the issue don'tcha think?

being able to generate more velocity would almost certainly be step 1...maximum strength is never a bad thing, but it may likely not your limiter right now. looking at it a little differently...go to the gym and find the biggest baddest dude and then take him to the court. He might put up 1k+ on the big three but it doesn't necissarily translate in b-ball.
gobbla is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-2006, 12:29 PM   #11 (permalink)
Buk
Jumpman Jr.
 
Buk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Blacksburg, VA
Posts: 3,066
Default

I disagree here G. You gotta train your weakness. Take the big huge guy from the gym and put him on some plyo drills, yes. I am guessing that kmfisher's plyo ability is pretty high if he can dunk while squatting a calculated 230 to 240 pounds. I think I remember km being tall - around 6'4" I think, but those are still some good ups. I would think limit strength or strength deficit is what is holding him back any further.
__________________
Low expectations yield insignificant results
Buk is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-2006, 12:54 PM   #12 (permalink)
Has Pretty Lips
 
gobbla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 9,042
Default

If you say it's a strength deficit then it probably is

What kind of strength training (generic thoughts\paramaters) do you think would benifit KM the most?
gobbla is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-2006, 01:49 PM   #13 (permalink)
Buk
Jumpman Jr.
 
Buk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Blacksburg, VA
Posts: 3,066
Default

We know so few specifics. A recent decay in strength occured while spending more time playing than training. Rarely squatted or deadlifted in the last 6 months. I am going to assume athletic with good mobility and function. We have a month "off season" that will involve no playing, but still limited training time.

I would go with 3 fullbody workouts. I would incorporate drills to teach basic olympic lift technique into the warmup and mobility work. Incorporate as much unilateral work as bilateral work for the lower body. Workouts would start with Deadlift, Squat, Power Clean(if appropriate). Triples or wave loading with some, higher reps for someone who hasn't been lifting very consistently lately. Upper body I would focus on rows, pull-ups, dips, and maybe overhead presses. Assistance work would be 2 or 3 sets 8-10 reps of: 1 leg RDL, rev-hyper or GHR, step-up or lunge variation, shoulders, standing cable horizontal pushes and pulls, and rotation work. If I could add a conditioning day I would give it a high plyometric component. Those are some thoughts, I think I would make something that looks like the strength portion of what I have been doing the last 4 weeks.
__________________
Low expectations yield insignificant results
Buk is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-2006, 02:04 PM   #14 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Overland Park, KS
Posts: 273
Default

Good memory, I'm about 6'5" tall. Yeah, I'm estimating my vertical at around 31" since I can touch an 11' ceiling. I think I could get it up to 35" with a big increase in my 1 rm and some explosive training although that's not my main focus. I also have no idea how big that strength increase needs to be since I've never seen an article on it.

I definitely need to work on quickness in every direction, but especially lateral. It's pretty lacking. I have weak obliques since I rarely trained them (didn't want them big). I rarely do core work, but I've been able to pass those baseline core tests (2 min planks, etc). I have trouble with guys bigger than me and smaller guys who are quicker than me. Bigger always alleviates itself with strength training, but quicker's always the problem. What would be good rep ranges to train in? I was thinking 8x3 for squats and rdls, and then doing a deadlift day once every 2 weeks and always work towards a 1rm. Couple that with core work, and an explosive/plyo day (hang cleans and other non-overhead explosive work). Do you think that would help some? (Upper body is already covered through short 12-15 min lunch workouts.)
kmfisher is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-2006, 07:03 AM   #15 (permalink)
Porthon Tox Earfeg
 
UpNorth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,183
Default

Don't mean to thread jack but I have a quick question for Buk...

I went through one of your plyo workouts this morning and had a bit of trouble with the x-jumps. Is it one hop with your feet parallel, one hop with the left foot crossed in front of the right (hips turned), back to parallel and then one hop with the right over the left? It seems like I'm missing something -- I've watched your video and I just can't tell exactly what your doing. I have a feeling I have to work on my rhythm a bit ( then maybe I can put on the MC hammer pants )

By the way, the drills were a lot of fun! And thank you for posting them up and the video as well.
UpNorth is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-2006, 07:57 AM   #16 (permalink)
Buk
Jumpman Jr.
 
Buk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Blacksburg, VA
Posts: 3,066
Default

I wish I had zoomed in the camera a little more. The other workout(accel and horizontal power) has more exercises in the 15-20 yard range and I set up with that in mind.

Your description is correct though: parallel, crossover, parallel, crossover(the other way). But don't think about your hips turning. The crossover doesn't have to be very far. You want your legs and feet moving and moving fast. I think your best off if your hips remain forward, and that mine may be rotating too much. It is one of the tougher exercises to get a feel for, as it has a significant developed skill component.

Videoing yourself is eye-opening on almost every exercise as to what you are really doing versus what you think you are doing. I recomend it to everyone for all types of exercises: see how deep you are squatting and how far forward you are leaning, look at how uneaven the bar is, watch your knee track during a lunge. These things are often different than how they feel or even look while you are doing the lift.
__________________
Low expectations yield insignificant results
Buk is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-2006, 10:49 AM   #17 (permalink)
Porthon Tox Earfeg
 
UpNorth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,183
Default

Thanks Buk! I guess I just need some practice. With regards to the video: I'm not sure I want to see myself doing hammer hops -- I felt like a cartoon character that ate a whole hot pepper. The only thing missing was the steam coming out of my ears...
UpNorth is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 06-23-2009, 01:57 PM   #18 (permalink)
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Mississippi
Posts: 1
Default

The max lifts are part of the problem. Yeah, being bigger and stronger have their benefits in sports, but only if your body can manuever it's size and weight. To increase lateral quickness you have to work on your one-leg strength. Doing max squat lifts will benefit you if you're trying out for offensive lineman. You need to train with exercises that mimic the movements in your sport. It's called functional training. Try these in this same order every three days. Perform 4 sets of each, 10-12 reps the first few days then as many reps as possible around the third workout: body weight squats, step ups, lateral step ups, split squats, lying bent knee hip abduction, lying straight leg hip abduction, and crab walk. Also add in some lateral sprinting. Keep your body low as in the triple threat stance like in basketball. This is a common begginers workout so the exercises are supposed to seem elementary, but they are key to developing one leg strength and balance. Add these in with your regular strength training workout and you should see results in 4-5 weeks. P.S. these are just a few exercises. Try googling functional training for basketball players for more examples

Quote:
Originally Posted by kmfisher View Post
Are there any good exercises to increase lateral quickness? I get beat off the dribble too much in basketball. I keep my center of gravity and I slide my feet, but I can't keep up often. Are there any good drills and exercises I can do in my spare time to help improve this? I'm already focusing on explosive lifts and max power lifts a couple nights of the week to help my overall explosiveness. Maybe I should add more rotational core work?
wbowers is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 06-23-2009, 01:59 PM   #19 (permalink)
dividing by zero
 
LisaS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Orange Cty, CA
Posts: 6,485
Default

Three years after the last post in this thread, my guess is that the OP has moved on.
__________________
Training Log


Quote:
Water babies singing in a lily-pool delight
Blue powder monkeys praying in the dead of night
LisaS is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 06-24-2009, 11:57 AM   #20 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Overland Park, KS
Posts: 273
Default

Actually, I'm the original poster, and I'm still here.
kmfisher is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 06-24-2009, 11:58 AM   #21 (permalink)
Buk
Jumpman Jr.
 
Buk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Blacksburg, VA
Posts: 3,066
Default

How is your lateral quickness?
__________________
Low expectations yield insignificant results
Buk is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 06-24-2009, 11:59 AM   #22 (permalink)
dividing by zero
 
LisaS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Orange Cty, CA
Posts: 6,485
Default

I meant probably moved on from needing an answer for lateral quickness
my apologies if you felt slighted.
__________________
Training Log


Quote:
Water babies singing in a lily-pool delight
Blue powder monkeys praying in the dead of night
LisaS is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:06 PM.

Features ...
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2009, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.2.0
Ad Management by RedTyger