Actually I just started my own because hopefully I will get some good feedback and its sucks navigating a 3 page thread.
Okay Bill it became apparant to me today that I really need to start training my deficiencies. I did the 60% of max test with my front squat and didn't do so well. My first set I did 3 reps in 7 seconds, the second set I did 3 reps in 6 seconds. This is not fast. I think I have found why my squat sucks. It also makes sense when you look at my sticking point which is right out of the hole. I get a couple inches up and then have no speed built up and get stapled.
My goals are like this:
-I want to increase my squat. It sucks and should be better. This is where I need the most help.
-I also wouldn't mind increasing my deadlift. There is a max deadlift in my next contest, but in the past the main thing that has helped my deadlift is pulling in a contest situation, so as long as I don't ignore heavy posterior chain work I am not worried.
-I need to increase mobility in the shoulder girdle so I can safely overhead press again.
-Along with this I also need hypertrophy of the upperbody. You can't flex bone after all. I think this is one of the main things holding my strength gains back.
Now for the questions.
After looking at your 12 week outline from the Summit do you think it would be fine for me to have very different goal for upper and lower body? You have the first 4 weeks for hypertrophy and mobility, then getting into power and such, but for the most part my lowerbody is healthy and doesn't need the hypertrophy. The upperbody does. So I was thinking of emphasising power at the beggining with the lowerbody and hypertrophy and mobility of the upper body.
The hypertrophy training stuff is easy, eat a lot and use moderate reps with lots of tension etc...
Its the dynamic effort stuff that gets a bit harder. What do you think the best way to go about it would be for me? Assuming I can work out as often as necessary, would you mind giving me some clues to laying something out?
Thanks a ton Bill.
Danny
__________________
Limitations are for people who have them.
Keep in mind that the 12 week thingy was just an example. You can create whatever you need in regard to training deficiencies.
You can certainly mix dynamic effort lower body and repeated effort upper body. Just monitor your fatigue (recovery heart rates, sleep quality, appetite, RPE, etc.) and don't try to raise too many abilities at any one time. You may be able to increase frequency of upper body relative to lower body training because of the lower neural fatigue associated with the hypertrophy training and prioritization of upper body training. Follow such a phase with a lower frequency phase with a bit of higher intensity work.
First in the week, first in the workout gets you most glaring deficiency. Dynamic effort precedes repeated effort. You'll need retaining loads on your strong points. A few sets at 85% 1 RM every 10 days or so will take care of that.
Awesome thanks Bill. I am still thinking this out.
I like using 4 week cycles, it just makes sense to me. I use something close to the 4 week outline you gave us at the summit, so I am going to use that for now.
So -
Monday:
mobility stuff
A) Dynamic Front squats -This is one question I have. Should I choose a weight I can get 3 reps in 3 seconds with? Because if I go there I am going to have to drop well below the 50% guideline. Or should I stick with something around 50% and work on getting the speed faster?
3 rep sets until 1 second drop off
B1) Horizontal Pull 8 RM
B2) Rotational core 8 RM
B3) Vertical Push (i am assuming lateral raise variations are ok with my shoulder. I am pretty sure you mentioned that.) 8 RM
Tuesday - mobility, rolling, maybe if I am not lazy ESW.
Wednesday
mobility
A) heavy hip dominant 6 RM
B1) knee dominant split stance 8 RM
B2) long duration ISO
B3) scapular retraction 12 RM
Saturday -
light event day. Light farmers, yoke, tire, or dragging. No intensive stuff like heavy stones, heavy pick ups etc... Also no overhead work.
Sunday - Totally off besides usual rolling
Okay here is one question already. Is dynamic front squatting once a week enough to really train the quality? I don't want to go overboard but it feels like I am not doing much to bring the quality up. But at the same time I know I can't and shouldn't ignore everything else.
Really the hardest thing for me to grasp is applying the dynamic effort method in a given training week. So far the repeated effort and max effort are much easier for me to understand and use. This could be why I am so damn slow!
I should also note I am using the drop off method you talked about and as each exercise drops off it is just dropped from the rotation until all have achieved the drop off.
Using only a few exercises per training session for more volume of each is also weird for me. It doesn't feel right.
Danny
__________________
Limitations are for people who have them.
There are many ways to incorporate dynamic effort. BTW, dynamic effort front squats are really difficult. It's much easier to hold it in the back squat position.
Example: take 50% of your 1 RM and perform 5 reps for your best time. Say it takes 6 seconds to complete 5 reps. Add one second to your time to determine drop-off. Add a small amount of weight each set and try to stay under your drop-off, in this case 7 seconds. Perform as many progressive sets that you can until you can no longer keep the time under 7 seconds. Your goal is to increase the number of sets you can perform under your drop-off time. I like this method because of the increasing loads and increasing volume.
Set 1 Set 2 Set 3 Set 4 Set 5
6 sec 6.2 6.5 6.7 7.2 done
You could also wave the loads
Set 1 Set 2 Set 3 Set 4
50% 60% 50% 60%
use time or rep speed based on first set to indicate your drop-off when using the 50% load.
Based on your old training journal, you rarely did more than 4 total exercises. Regardless, the template that I used at the Summit was pretty loose so keep that in mind. You can also arrange exercise in any manner (1A, 1B, 2A, 2B)
If you folllow this with an upper/lower split or 2 lower body emphasis days, you could emphasize speed-strength (~50%) on first lower body workout and then strength-speed (~70-75%) on the next. You'll probably see a significant impact in 3-4 weeks.
Think programs not microcycles/templates. Start at the end and work backward. For instance, knowing where you want to go with your training, is there anything that needs to happen before you shift into a lot of dynamic effort work (too much too soon results in tendon issues)? What follows each training block? What are you linking it to (conjugate)?
Thanks a ton Bill, this is clearing up a ton of stuff.
First I will answer the questions.
-Where I want to go: The goal is to raise my squat and focus on developing max strength. My focus has been on getting better at strongman events for so long I have neglected getting stronger. This was proved to me when I got my ass handed to me at a contest.
-Is there anything that should be done before shifting into dynamic work: I really don't think so. I have spent a lot of time in the 6-8 rep range with low body work and am pretty well conditioned, so I feel like the lower body can handle the stress of dynamic work. The upperbody couldn't, so thats why I am sticking with RE stuff there.
What follows each training block: I really like how Christian Thib lays out a lot of his training blocks in his Modern trends book and he typically goes from speed to max strength to hypertrophy and then repeats. To me it makes sense and I figure once I follow a 4 week dynamic block I will go into a lower volume higher intensity maximal effort block. From there into a hypertrophy block with higher volume and lower intensity to build some muscle and condition the tissues.
Just to be clear you are saying it would be fine to use two lowerbody days in this training cycle correct? The first using the speed strength drop off method above and with the second using a strength-speed approach. Would the strength speed work be done using a timed drop off as well, or would simply using a weight in that 70ish% and moving it as fast as possible be fine? I am also assuming you would use two different exercises?
Again, thanks a lot.
By the way, do you have any recommendations for reading up on this stuff. Not so much the theoretical end of things but how to actually apply and use dynamic effort training? It would be nice to not have to ask you everything I am curious about and I am sure you wouldn't mind
Danny
__________________
Limitations are for people who have them.
I forgot to put this in before. But with regards to training the deadlift, any advice on how to not totally ignore it during this time period. Its my guess that trying to also train it for speed would be too much, as would using max weights. But would moderate rep deadlifts (around 5 reps - anything more is cardio!) be okay?
Danny
__________________
Limitations are for people who have them.
I forgot to put this in before. But with regards to training the deadlift, any advice on how to not totally ignore it during this time period. Its my guess that trying to also train it for speed would be too much, as would using max weights. But would moderate rep deadlifts (around 5 reps - anything more is cardio!) be okay?
Danny
You can use 2 lower body days and alternate them (as well as 2 upper body days). One light and fast, the other heavier and try to be fast (intent to move quickly). By changing loads with the same movement pattern, you are creating 2 different exercises. For instance, a squat at 40% 1 RM at max speed and a squat at 75% 1 RM are not the same.
In regard to the deadlift, is it what you need or what you enjoy? Will a short period away from the deadlift be detrimental to performance? Could it make you better by developing another quality? Could you become stagnant by performing the same deadlift movement pattern? Is there a specificity issue for which the deadlift needs to be trained? How much deadlift training do you need to maintain current capabilities while you raise something else?
This stuff is really helping big time Bill. Again thanks a ton!
But you know, you are never going to achieve true Guru status if you keep making me think for myself...
About the deadlift, I just hate to ignore it. I do think that I need to spend at least occasional time and effort on keeping my form on the pull. If I don't deadlift for long periods I tend to go back to a terrible pulling style more than losing strength I just lose technique. So on one of the lowerbody days I should probably do some form work. This could easily come in the way of a couple singles or triples with light weight.
I also think in training my squat for speed it will help my deadlift. I am weakest off the floor so gaining the ability to accelerate quickly should help. It will also probably benifit it to spend some time strengthening the muscles without focusing too much on the specific lift. Some of my best gains came this way before.
I really do appreciate all the help. Its largely one of the reasons I jumped at the chance to see you speak again. Well and because I have a bit of a man-crush on you...hahahahaha
Danny
__________________
Limitations are for people who have them.
I'm sure you totally understand what Bill's talking about here, but if your looking for this implemented check out Mark M's log on SOStrength...he's quit posting but he did a round of this training that bills talking about and explained it in there for me.
CD
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Hartman
There are many ways to incorporate dynamic effort. BTW, dynamic effort front squats are really difficult. It's much easier to hold it in the back squat position.
Example: take 50% of your 1 RM and perform 5 reps for your best time. Say it takes 6 seconds to complete 5 reps. Add one second to your time to determine drop-off. Add a small amount of weight each set and try to stay under your drop-off, in this case 7 seconds. Perform as many progressive sets that you can until you can no longer keep the time under 7 seconds. Your goal is to increase the number of sets you can perform under your drop-off time. I like this method because of the increasing loads and increasing volume.
Set 1 Set 2 Set 3 Set 4 Set 5
6 sec 6.2 6.5 6.7 7.2 done
You could also wave the loads
Set 1 Set 2 Set 3 Set 4
50% 60% 50% 60%
use time or rep speed based on first set to indicate your drop-off when using the 50% load.
Based on your old training journal, you rarely did more than 4 total exercises. Regardless, the template that I used at the Summit was pretty loose so keep that in mind. You can also arrange exercise in any manner (1A, 1B, 2A, 2B)
If you folllow this with an upper/lower split or 2 lower body emphasis days, you could emphasize speed-strength (~50%) on first lower body workout and then strength-speed (~70-75%) on the next. You'll probably see a significant impact in 3-4 weeks.
Think programs not microcycles/templates. Start at the end and work backward. For instance, knowing where you want to go with your training, is there anything that needs to happen before you shift into a lot of dynamic effort work (too much too soon results in tendon issues)? What follows each training block? What are you linking it to (conjugate)?
There are many ways to incorporate dynamic effort. BTW, dynamic effort front squats are really difficult. It's much easier to hold it in the back squat position.
Example: take 50% of your 1 RM and perform 5 reps for your best time. Say it takes 6 seconds to complete 5 reps. Add one second to your time to determine drop-off. Add a small amount of weight each set and try to stay under your drop-off, in this case 7 seconds. Perform as many progressive sets that you can until you can no longer keep the time under 7 seconds. Your goal is to increase the number of sets you can perform under your drop-off time. I like this method because of the increasing loads and increasing volume.
Set 1 Set 2 Set 3 Set 4 Set 5
6 sec 6.2 6.5 6.7 7.2 done
You could also wave the loads
Set 1 Set 2 Set 3 Set 4
50% 60% 50% 60%
use time or rep speed based on first set to indicate your drop-off when using the 50% load.
can that method be applied to benching too? i want to increese my speed in benching you see, and im kind of unsure how to do it.
can that method be applied to benching too? i want to increese my speed in benching you see, and im kind of unsure how to do it.
Karky,
I believe that the training that bill is talking about can be used on benching. Page through this log by Mark M (sports trainer out of portland...sometimes has articles on Elite FTS). and you'll see that he did his with benching.
Applying what we learned
.
Linear Mode
