Hey guys. While I'm recuperating from my latest back injury (this one's not totally my fault!) I'm going to put forth a new workout concept (for me it's new; I'm sure it's been proposed by others).
Ok, so my main goals:
1 - Increase my deadlift.
2 - Better overall conditioning (possibly some fat-loss, but mainly to not be the "strong guy" who is stiff and can't keep up when the pace quickens).
3 - And I'll be honest with you guys. Sure, I wouldn't mind some bigger arms and shoulders.
For anyone who doesn't know me, I'll right away negate any worry over nutrition. I understand all about eating for size gain, fat-loss, health, etc. I have John Berardi's "Precision Nutrition" and all that jazz. It's great. In fact, I'd say of all the major criteria for physical success, eating is the one that I've got nailed down. Sleep is slowly becoming better (8 hours 5 days a week. Still working on the other 2 days).
That stuff aside, I'd love to hear the opinions of this routine:
SUNDAY
Deadlifts while standing on plates 8x3
Db Lunges 4x20 (that's 10 each side)
30 minutes Eliptical
MONDAY
This is the part that would be new for me. Done circuit style, I would pick a new exercise each time around. I would include one vertical pull, one v-push, one horizontal push, etc. No rest between sets. 30-45 seconds rest between circuits. This is chiefly to stave off boredom, which often occurs with upper-body movements, but also to make sure I cover all the bases.
Example: Round 1 x8
Db Bench Press
Neck Pulls
Bb Push Presses
Chinups
Hanging Leg Raises
... and so on, Rounds 3 + 4 each containing different exercises, but covering the planes of motion for the upper body and the spectrum of core exercises.
THURSDAY
same as MONDAY, except in place of a core exercise to complete the circuit, it would begin with a vertical push, followed by one triceps and one biceps exercise (to prioritize shoulders and arms... done more effectively after the 45 second rest), and then a VPull, HPull, HPush.
Example:
Seated Db Shoulder Press
Crossbody Db Extensions
Db Biceps Curls
Elevated Pushups
Db Rows
Pulldowns
FRIDAY - OFF
SATURDAY
30 minutes Eliptical
Now, for those of you kind enough to have read this far: would this constant change of exercises be detrimental or beneficial? I'd love to hear everyone's take on it.
Also, does this routine seem to be effective for the stated goals?
(I know it's Easter, so I won't expect a barage of reponses right away. Whenever you get to it!)
I dont see why it wouldnt work. It'll definately take a bit longer for your muscles to adapt, which may be a good thing. So you should see increases in strength and possibly size, probably not right off the bat in the first week or two, but more gradual increases for a longer period id say.
i really like the upper body work out concept. ive always wanted to give circuits and auto-regulation type stuff a try.
Best of luck. And if anything else just look into some billstar or big-three type training, that could work real well too, but wouldnt be tapered to just increasing deadlifts.
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You know I'm not an expert but I think it is a good plan. With the years you have been training switching the exercises could be to your advantage. You probably adapt quickly to any exercise, so repetitively doing the same ones will slow your gains.
I don't know what your back issues are so I'm not sure how the DL's and squats will be affected.
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You know I'm not an expert but I think it is a good plan. With the years you have been training switching the exercises could be to your advantage. You probably adapt quickly to any exercise, so repetitively doing the same ones will slow your gains.
I don't know what your back issues are so I'm not sure how the DL's and squats will be affected.
Thanks to both of you!
OG: I plan on starting this when my back heals. Nothing torn, just spasming from the mis-loaded DL.
A good tip when desiging a routine: If you cant put a few points beside each exersise stating WHY you are doing it and the reason for the amount of volume you are giving it then you need to give it a closer look.
Rock, I'm also far from being an expert, but the rest period between circuits seems too short in my eyes. I would go with 60-75 to gain a bit more recovery.
You also said you'll pick a different exercise every circuit, unless I'm reading you wrong, but from Mike Robertson's "Program Design 101:"
Quote:
Let me explain that a little better. If you're changing your exercises every week (to keep your body "guessing"), it'll never have time to adjust and adapt accordingly to that new training stimulus. Your ideal, as a strength trainer, is to hit an exercise just enough to get everything you can out of it, and then move on. This could be anywhere from three to six weeks, and I’m guessing you probably have some idea of how long exercises work before you begin to plateau. This is an extremely important concept to employ for your assistance exercises.
Now mind you you're changing up every circuit, but if you do a variant of each push and pull group and stick with it, change it every 3-6 weeks, I think you'll see good gains on top of anything else you're wanting to acheive.
I'm just posting to ask questions...you're smarter than I am.
#1. Would it be necissary on the circuit training days to do both circuits with all 4 upper body planes? Could you do round 1 with horz, and then round 2 with vert? Either way, what would be a reason that you would or wouldn't?
#2. What would making the 2nd\4th day a DE day do in relation to your goals? Instead of a circuit...mabey some O-lifts...followed by a shorter round of HIIT?
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Just as a statement...Ian King really seems to favor the gagillion excersise approach. As long as you're giving an honest answer I think the benifits and detriments even out.
Good thoughts/questions guys. I've been struggling with my back and computer this week, so I'm just now getting back to thinking about this routine. This has become a high-rep/low-weight upper-body week in the meantime!
owie all I can say is if you like Doms you sure is gonna get them :-) frequent change is good but that frequent well if you throw all your fuel on the fire in one go where do you go next????
Not saying its bad far from it but rather you than me Rock :-)
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"The time for talking has passed, actions are speaking louder than words."
All I will add, is that I don't necessarily like it when people switch their movements every other training session (outside of ME work, but even then.....I would say one needs a good 1-2 years of solid training with ME work to actually NEED to switch movements on a weekly basis). How else are you going to be able to gauge whether or not you're getting stronger with specific lifts? If you're changing them every other training session, you will have a hard keeping track of tangible progress. Know what I mean. I think it's fantastic that you're setting up your program around movement patterns and NOT muscle groups. That alone is a step above most people. That being said, if I were you, I would pluck in a movements for each training session and keep it the same for 3 weeks and THEN change it up.
Also, I would add in some dynamic flexibility to start your session and also pay attention to those rotator cuff's. Wouldn't hurt to throw in a few ER exercises at the end of a few of them
All I will add, is that I don't necessarily like it when people switch their movements every other training session (outside of ME work, but even then.....I would say one needs a good 1-2 years of solid training with ME work to actually NEED to switch movements on a weekly basis). How else are you going to be able to gauge whether or not you're getting stronger with specific lifts? If you're changing them every other training session, you will have a hard keeping track of tangible progress. Know what I mean. I think it's fantastic that you're setting up your program around movement patterns and NOT muscle groups. That alone is a step above most people. That being said, if I were you, I would pluck in a movements for each training session and keep it the same for 3 weeks and THEN change it up.
Also, I would add in some dynamic flexibility to start your session and also pay attention to those rotator cuff's. Wouldn't hurt to throw in a few ER exercises at the end of a few of them
Thanks Tony! Yeah, I've been lifting for many years now, and for the longest time was doing ME days, centered around bench, squats and deads. And you're also right about the dynamic stretching. I have a pretty thorough regimen that I do each time. I rarely post much on my stretching though.
As far as cuff work: I tend to rotate cuff work every 4-6 week routine. It's largely bands and light db's... again, not recorded. I had shoulder problems for years, so I've come to appreciate healthy cuffs!
Not a problem. I wasn't trying to insinuate that you didn't know what you were talking about, but I just think the majority of trainees have training schizophrenia (and yes, I realize I probably spelled that wrong..haha) and often do more harm than good with their program design. A general rule of thumb I try to use with most of my clients is:
1. Train to get stronger. When one does this, everything else usually falls into place. Whether or not to get "lean" is usually a function of one's diet.
2. Focus on the compound movements (you do this).
3. Make sure to add unilateral work in there somewhere. So many people would save themselves a TON of bad knees/backs, etc if they did this. And even then, make sure to have an even mix of hip extension/quad dominant movements. Example: one-legged RDL's (hip extension), bulgarian split squats (quad dom).
4. Train movements patterns and NOT muscle groups. (you do this as well).
5. Foam rolling. If you're not doing soem form of soft tissue work/manipulation, you're missing the boat.
6. Rotator Cuff work. And not just "well, I throw in a few db's and band work." Make sure you train with the elbows adducted, as well as abducted. On top of that (and along the same concept), most would generally benefit from more scapular stabilization work. Various rows. I know for me, I usually make sure that my clients are using a 2:1 (row:push) ratio with their programs. Not saying this is the case with most people, but it kinda is.
7. Core work. Is sooooooooo much more than doing crunches till you puke. What is doing 500 crunches going to do but make you better at being able to do 500 crunches. Core training needs to be divided into different movement planes as well: trunk flexion, trunk extension, rotation, lateral flexion, pure stabilization (Boyle refers to this mainly as rotary training), and hip flexion. If a person is generally using compound movements, their core is being HAMMERED anyways. But it is definitely a good idea to throw in 1-2 movements per training session, depending on what the emphasis was for that day.
And I could probably add a few things, but I feel I have rambled enough. Training intensity is another thing I often find people neglecting. Not in your case, but using an undulated approach I find is often conducive for most. That way, you get the most bang for your training buck
Not a problem. I wasn't trying to insinuate that you didn't know what you were talking about, but I just think the majority of trainees have training schizophrenia (and yes, I realize I probably spelled that wrong..haha) and often do more harm than good with their program design. A general rule of thumb I try to use with most of my clients is:
1. Train to get stronger. When one does this, everything else usually falls into place. Whether or not to get "lean" is usually a function of one's diet.
2. Focus on the compound movements (you do this).
3. Make sure to add unilateral work in there somewhere. So many people would save themselves a TON of bad knees/backs, etc if they did this. And even then, make sure to have an even mix of hip extension/quad dominant movements. Example: one-legged RDL's (hip extension), bulgarian split squats (quad dom).
4. Train movements patterns and NOT muscle groups. (you do this as well).
5. Foam rolling. If you're not doing soem form of soft tissue work/manipulation, you're missing the boat.
6. Rotator Cuff work. And not just "well, I throw in a few db's and band work." Make sure you train with the elbows adducted, as well as abducted. On top of that (and along the same concept), most would generally benefit from more scapular stabilization work. Various rows. I know for me, I usually make sure that my clients are using a 2:1 (row:push) ratio with their programs. Not saying this is the case with most people, but it kinda is.
7. Core work. Is sooooooooo much more than doing crunches till you puke. What is doing 500 crunches going to do but make you better at being able to do 500 crunches. Core training needs to be divided into different movement planes as well: trunk flexion, trunk extension, rotation, lateral flexion, pure stabilization (Boyle refers to this mainly as rotary training), and hip flexion. If a person is generally using compound movements, their core is being HAMMERED anyways. But it is definitely a good idea to throw in 1-2 movements per training session, depending on what the emphasis was for that day.
And I could probably add a few things, but I feel I have rambled enough. Training intensity is another thing I often find people neglecting. Not in your case, but using an undulated approach I find is often conducive for most. That way, you get the most bang for your training buck
No worries! I just wanted you to know where I stand in training age/maturity so you could make a more accurate appraisal.
Great points. I think I've got them all covered except truly sufficient core work (I've even got a foam roller sitting by my bed at home). I do Cressey's "Rotator Cuff Conundrum" workout every few months... bands for light cuff work and scapular retraction in between. Perhaps I should look into a more complex/ thorough cuff routine. And I guess I made it look like the circuits were for fat-loss, and I certainly think they help in that category, but I really am doing it more for lactic acid conditioning... to avoid being a "burnout" guy.
During the circuits, I would be switching the movements (one-arm db row first time around, neutral grip seated row, next, etc.) but I would do the same exercises each week, just not several times each workout. Does that make sense?
I don't think it's been said yet, but "Welcome Tony". Nice to see some more faces from Rugged/SOS over here.
Hola. Nice to be here. I figured I need to find another forum with a lot of quality people to start posting on again. It was either this, or talking to hot chicks online.
Yes, let's use RH's extremely important and urgent routine design thread to talk about "Tony G", just cause some guy at Rugged mentioned him in a frickin article!
Hey, I figured you were still on the injured list so we can keep the thread going.
How's the back?
I'll let it pass... this time.
The back is ok. Full range of motion now, just some soreness and the inability to sit in a chair for more than 10 minutes.
Next week I'll start back in on leg work. My massage therapist basically said it's simple tension, no major damage... stretching and rest for now. Thanks for askin!
Last Thursday a couple of buddies were loading the bar for me on deads. At one point the guy on the left put 50 pounds less on the bar than the guy on the right. I really should have double checked myself. Anyway, up it came, out went my back. My friend (a massage therapist) found all sorts of junk in the QLs, psoas, glutes, etc. All good, on the mend.
Yeah, I have had a few QL/SI joint issues in the past; albeit not from some asshat friends loading too much weight on one side...haha
More often than not, it's just a matter of loading up on the NSAIDS for a few days (key word for other's reading this: A FEW DAYS), ice, and watching lots of Jennifer Garner on tv.
Yeah, I have had a few QL/SI joint issues in the past; albeit not from some asshat friends loading too much weight on one side...haha
More often than not, it's just a matter of loading up on the NSAIDS for a few days (key word for other's reading this: A FEW DAYS), ice, and watching lots of Jennifer Garner on tv.
Mmm... Jennifer Gaaarner. I'm gonna hurt my back more often.
Not to get off topic or anything, but I actually met her trainer this past fall when EC and I went to meet up with Alwyn Cosgrove. Pretty funny story actually.
Not to get off topic or anything, but I actually met her trainer this past fall when EC and I went to meet up with Alwyn Cosgrove. Pretty funny story actually.
Ok, ok.... changing the subject again, name-dropping... and wait, aren't you that pussy who was recommending straps for all your lifts - I know you edited it now, but originally it did say ,"especially for lat pulldowns" - in the other thread? Jeez, man...
Routine Design
Linear Mode
