Greetings once again JP Fitness Summit 2006 Attendees!
We covered so much material in such a short time that I wanted to start a thread to specifically address questions you may have regarding anything we covered at this year's summit.
Not really a question, but I really enjoyed observing both you and Zig (MotionDNA) while the two of you worked with some of the attendees. You two were like a match made in heaven when it comes to understanding of the kinetic chain and relationships of each body to all the others. That trick you did on me to improve my ability to touch my toes blew me away (notice I didn't say "improve my hamstring flexibility").
Thanks for being one of the most brilliant presenters I have ever seen in this industry, and for choosing my little corner of the internet to share your extensive knowledge. I'll kick myself for saying this when I book you next time we do one together, but you are truly a bargain at twice the price!
JP: I've heard you and LD talk about that toe touching trick. I was wondering if you, Bill, or LD would care to elaborate on it. Thanks
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Kevin its not really a trick, more of the proper way to activate the body. Its kind of hard to explain, hopefully some guys got pictures and if not once I get some sleep and relax I will try to make some sense of some of the stuff.
And Bill, don't worry I will have a lot of stuff for this thread pretty quick. I just need to rest by brain and recover from the weekend.
Danny
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Kevin, I think what you are referring to was a stretch that Bill had several attendees doing. Bill can expand on it but I think he had you stand up with your arm extended over your head holding a bar (much like an overhead squat starting position). You have a 6" foam roller between your thighs and your toes are on a 2 inch block. From the starting position, keeping your arms straight, reach over and touch your toes. There is going to be a DVD available and it will cover all the corrective exercises Bill did.
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Don't forget to squeeze that foam roller to de-activate your glutes. Also, extend both arms over head and keep them in that position for as long as possible during the stretch. Do a set of 10. Then try it flat footed. Prepare to be amazed.
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More jobs? How about less people?
With my shoulder and glute condition, I was wondering if bent over rows and rear raises would help with the process of correction. Otherwise, I have a pretty good grasp of what I have to do.
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With my shoulder and glute condition, I was wondering if bent over rows and rear raises would help with the process of correction. Otherwise, I have a pretty good grasp of what I have to do.
Only so much. Remember that the thoracic spine changes the shape of the ribcage which will alter the scapular mobility (it restricts posterior tilt of the scapula to open the subacromial space where the rotator cuff is).
The rule is that thoracic mobility must precede normal scapular mobility. You can work on both simultaneously, but you must be sure that you're not learning an undesireable movement pattern for the scapula.
Before doing any scapular retraction/depression exercises, perform the diagonal stretches with the stick to "make room" to pull the scapula back and down.
JP: I've heard you and LD talk about that toe touching trick. I was wondering if you, Bill, or LD would care to elaborate on it. Thanks
1. Test toe touching ability
2. Phase I
Stand with balls of feet on 2 x 4 and heels on floor.
Put 6" foam roller between thighs just above the knee and squeeze
Make sure feet are as close together as possible (it will feel bow-legged)
Reach upward as far as humanly possible
Maintain the length of the upper body and reach for toes 10 times.
3. Phase II
Stand with heels on 2 x 4 and balls of feet on floor
Repeat reaching upward, foam roller, and toe touching sequence as above
4. Retest toe touching ability
This is not something one should do frequently because of the repetitive flexion effect on the spine. It will however, quickly improve your hip and ankle mobility.
Bill
P.S. the foam roller shuts off the glutes, primarily glute medius.
I have been watching my children more so that I can imitate their form and my knees are feeling WAY better. I do wonder why I am having consistently more SI pain than before??? Is that just going to be that way until Jackie and I are finished nursing?
I also saw in your slides about the "Lumbo-Pelvic-Hip Complex" and I believe this was one of my other troubles. How do I decrease that major arch in my back...I can't remember, but I think it's contracting my abs?
I am happy to report that when I got home yesterday, I used the day as a mobility day, as you recommended.
Questions:
-With the side lying rotation (with or without shoulder traction), am I supposed to keep my lower back on the ground? Or can I allow the hips to rotate as I rotate my legs? I believe it is the latter, which seems to result in a better stretch. Unfortunately, this is the one exercise that I needed to do that I didn't get a demo vidclip of.
-more specific to me and my anterior tilt with tight hip flexors: are Bulgarian step squats a good lower body exercise (you said to leave out squats and power cleans until I correct my issues)? I ask because when I do those with bodyweight, I always feel a very strong stretch in the back leg on the bench.
-also specific to the tight hip flexors: similar to RW's question above, the anteriro tilt seems to be corrected with a combo of glute contraction and/or ab contraction. I think you said, however, not to work the abs, at least with crunches. Any guidance you can give about any abdominal work for people with tight hip flexors would be appreciated (I do recall the kind of reverse crunch you recommended, but you said that should be done only if you needed to do ab work with tight hip flexors, not that the exercise was particularly helpful?).
Thanks in advance for your answers, and a big thanks for your presentation and time! If you didn't see my comments in the O/T section to you, please feel free to contact me if you need anything here in Chicago.
I have been watching my children more so that I can imitate their form and my knees are feeling WAY better. I do wonder why I am having consistently more SI pain than before??? Is that just going to be that way until Jackie and I are finished nursing?
I also saw in your slides about the "Lumbo-Pelvic-Hip Complex" and I believe this was one of my other troubles. How do I decrease that major arch in my back...I can't remember, but I think it's contracting my abs?
Thanks!
Jamie
The SI pain may be around a while for reasons you mentioned. It may also be that you are substituting your hip external rotators for your gluteus maximus (butt muscles). If you poke deep into each butt cheek and it's sensitive, that's most likely the cause. Have your hubby show you how to foam roll them, and it should help some.
You are correct in regard to the abs contributing to reduction of the anterior tilt. The butt muscles also contribute, so you can see that all this may be connected.
Less glute means more deep hip rotator work and more SI pain which also increases anterior pelvic tilt and decreased ab contribution.
I am happy to report that when I got home yesterday, I used the day as a mobility day, as you recommended.
Questions:
-With the side lying rotation (with or without shoulder traction), am I supposed to keep my lower back on the ground? Or can I allow the hips to rotate as I rotate my legs? I believe it is the latter, which seems to result in a better stretch. Unfortunately, this is the one exercise that I needed to do that I didn't get a demo vidclip of.
-more specific to me and my anterior tilt with tight hip flexors: are Bulgarian step squats a good lower body exercise (you said to leave out squats and power cleans until I correct my issues)? I ask because when I do those with bodyweight, I always feel a very strong stretch in the back leg on the bench.
-also specific to the tight hip flexors: similar to RW's question above, the anteriro tilt seems to be corrected with a combo of glute contraction and/or ab contraction. I think you said, however, not to work the abs, at least with crunches. Any guidance you can give about any abdominal work for people with tight hip flexors would be appreciated (I do recall the kind of reverse crunch you recommended, but you said that should be done only if you needed to do ab work with tight hip flexors, not that the exercise was particularly helpful?).
Thanks in advance for your answers, and a big thanks for your presentation and time! If you didn't see my comments in the O/T section to you, please feel free to contact me if you need anything here in Chicago.
1. You are correct. The hips rotate. Start with feet on the ground and progress to feet off the ground as abdominal control and range of motion improve.
2. I use the Bulgarian Split Squat as a corrective exercise quite frequently, so it may be an excellent choice for you IF you can control the pelvic tilt with your abs. See below.
3. I really try to minimize the frequency of flexion in ab training, but like I said I do use the reverse crunch variation when I feel it's useful.
Now at the front of the hip is an interesting relationship that's like a tug-o-war on the pelvis. If the hip flexors are stiffer than the abdominals, the pelvis tilts forward. If the stiffness of hip flexors = abs, pelvis is neutral. If abs are stiffer than the hip flexors, it's a posterior tilt.
Take this approach.
Can you contract the abs sufficiently to assume a neutral pelvic alignment? If so, assume the neutral alignment and train the abs to stabilize in neutral using the plank and side bridge progressions.
If not, perform the diagonal stretch with the stick with a reverse lunge (remember the diagonals,right?) and use the reverse crunch for a couple of weeks to increase ab strength/stiffness and retry.
You mentioned in your talk that you see a lot of folks with problems because of the recent trend to make sure that push/pull is balanced. Benching and rows both cause scapular retraction or some other gibberish...
What's a good strategy to make sure that doesn't happen?
By the way, I know it's not actual gibberish, but I don't dare claim to know any of these terms...
Kaisers question address many of my initial questions but I do have two more.
You mention not to over do the toe touching progression. How much is too much? Also, will you recommend a book or another resource besides constantly bothering you that can provide some supplemental site specific stretches or warm ups?
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You mentioned in your talk that you see a lot of folks with problems because of the recent trend to make sure that push/pull is balanced. Benching and rows both cause scapular retraction or some other gibberish...
What's a good strategy to make sure that doesn't happen?
By the way, I know it's not actual gibberish, but I don't dare claim to know any of these terms...
Thanks,
Roland
Gibberish!!
The best strategy is to never value one exercise more than another. Powerlifters have to overemphasize the bench press since that's what they do. They also retract the scapula to squat, so that's a lot of retraction vs. protraction.
Most folks can just assure proper mobility by building a few upper extremity closed chain exercises into their movement prep before working out. We touched on it briefly with the mention of the upper extremity dynamic warm-up.
Do a net search for these exercises:
Push-up Plus
T push-up
Dive bomber push-up
Lateral and front raises and scaption in standing and prone also contribute to serratus anterior strengthening, so incorporating those into your workouts will help as well.
Kaisers question address many of my initial questions but I do have two more.
You mention not to over do the toe touching progression. How much is too much? Also, will you recommend a book or another resource besides constantly bothering you that can provide some supplemental site specific stretches or warm ups?
Let me put it this way...static flexed postures (slouching) and repetitive flexion (forward bending) is the mechanism by which lumbar discs become herniated. A few reps periodically shouldn't be problematic but to make it a habit is not such a good idea. Once you achieve the improvement in forward bending, simply maintain it but instead of rounding the back, keep the normal inward curve of the spine (like it is in standing) and bend forward at the hip.
Your squatting, lunging, step-ups, and rotation exercises go a long way to maintaining the flexibility as well. Remember it was about learning a new movement pattern rather than flexibility, so maintaining it is fairly easy.
As far as books go:
Athletic Body in Balance by Cook - The first section has the movement screen we did at the Summit and the corrective exercises as well. The rest of the book is not as exciting.
Ultimate Back Fitness and Performance by McGill - He's the foremost spine researcher. Good stuff on the spine, core strength, and hip mobility. also talks about grooving motor patterns like squatting. May be a tough read due to some of the technical nature.
Core Performance by Verstegen - good movement prep stuff and some core stuff. I could do without the swiss ball.
There's this little warm-up book I came across that has a bunch of calisthenic exercises in it that I find pretty handy on occasion. It can be found here:
Regarding the corrective movements for the high step test (was it the psoas not firing?), in addition to banded lunges and the mobility exercises you demonstrated what movements, if any would you suggest not doing?
Also, until I can get my right knee worked on what lower body movements would be OK to perform?
If possible I still want to work on Oly lifts, so should I do power variations only?
Thanks,
Chris
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Working "hard," or the perception of working hard, doesn't really mean anything. Sweating, vomiting, and breathing hard could be a good workout or a tropical disease kicking in.-Dan John
Regarding the corrective movements for the high step test (was it the psoas not firing?), in addition to banded lunges and the mobility exercises you demonstrated what movements, if any would you suggest not doing?
Also, until I can get my right knee worked on what lower body movements would be OK to perform?
If possible I still want to work on Oly lifts, so should I do power variations only?
Thanks,
Chris
I'd stick to single leg stuff (single leg squat progression) and split stance (split squat, bulgarian split squat, lunge, etc.) for now until the hip strength is balanced out. Watch your degree of knee bend so as not to irritate the knee.
I don't usually have anyone do the full oly lifts anymore since I don't train oly lifters. If you must, do them off of blocks to protect the knee and limit knee bend/rebend. Also make sure you address the imbalance first and then go after double leg exercises.
Alright Bill I am having a hell of a time with this psoas crap. I have been trying the pick up the knee negatives and applying manual pressure, but everytime I try to do it I just get a mega-cramp in the TFL area and am not noticing any psoas firing. Nothing like when you were showing me.
Can you re-go over what I should be focusing on/give me some other ideas for strengthening this annoying as hell muscle.
Or can I just ignore it like I have been for quite a while? I mean, who needs a psoas?
Thanks Bill!
Danny
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Alright Bill I am having a hell of a time with this psoas crap. I have been trying the pick up the knee negatives and applying manual pressure, but everytime I try to do it I just get a mega-cramp in the TFL area and am not noticing any psoas firing. Nothing like when you were showing me.
Can you re-go over what I should be focusing on/give me some other ideas for strengthening this annoying as hell muscle.
Or can I just ignore it like I have been for quite a while? I mean, who needs a psoas?
Thanks Bill!
Danny
Make sure hips are seated lower than knee to really get psoas to kick in. Keep your lumbar lordosis throughout the movement.
If that still doesn't work, lie on your back and do an isometric knee to chest to activate psoas. Once you feel comfortable with that then go back to the sitting position.
Or you could just ignore it and blame your psoas for any missed lifts.
Bill, I'm having a tough time building a workout based on the massive amount weaknesses that I discovered last weekend.
My "issues" are as follows:
My shoulders. The first day you did ART on me, your initial comment was "you're F'd up". I'm a lefty, (the left bothers me more than the right during pressing movements) yet my right shoulder/arm hang a tad lower than my left. My flexibility in both shoulders are terrible.
I'm rhomboid dominant. My serratus are so weak that I can't do a full pushup plus from the floor. Have to do it incline. That's pretty embarrassing.
My psoas are weak (right weaker than left)
Anterior pelvic tilt. I know for sure that my hip flexors are really tight, but I think I also have weak abs.
Couldn't even begin to get my hips off the floor during the glute bridge.
Don't forget about my lack of posterior chain flexibility
Where in the world do I start?
I think I've only absorbed enough info from this weekend to get me in trouble. I have more studying to do. I could just become a couch potatoe and not worry about it...
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More jobs? How about less people?
Could you elaborate on your Fat Loss recommendations?
One line of your slide reads 3-4x10-12, the next reads 3-4x8+4
I understand the "drop set" principal of of the 8+4, but would you recommend only using this rep strategy for only one or two exercises of each day or all of them? I'm wondering about the CNS fatigue that would arise from a lot of drop sets.
How about mixing things up from day to day? Say one day where you do the drop sets and the other days more "normal?" For instance, one day each of 4x10, 3x12, and 3x8+4?
Also, I know that our activities (or lack of) outside the gym probably cause far more issues than our actual gym time. I'm sure most of my "opportunities" are a result of my work and lifestyle. While I'm not deskbound, I drive my car for 3-4 hours per day for work. Plus about an hour or two, per day of PC time, spread throughout the day.
My major areas of weakness were in these tests: Overhead Squat, Shoulder Rotation, SLR, Rotational Stability, and Trunk Flexion. That's a lot to work on. Are there other things that I should be doing to counteract the effects of 4 hours of driving and 2 hours of computer everday? Hopefully, my corrective work from the self-tests will cover it, but I'm guessing not...
Thanks again,
Roland
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Hartman
Gibberish!!
The best strategy is to never value one exercise more than another. Powerlifters have to overemphasize the bench press since that's what they do. They also retract the scapula to squat, so that's a lot of retraction vs. protraction.
Most folks can just assure proper mobility by building a few upper extremity closed chain exercises into their movement prep before working out. We touched on it briefly with the mention of the upper extremity dynamic warm-up.
Do a net search for these exercises:
Push-up Plus
T push-up
Dive bomber push-up
Lateral and front raises and scaption in standing and prone also contribute to serratus anterior strengthening, so incorporating those into your workouts will help as well.
Bill, I'm having a tough time building a workout based on the massive amount weaknesses that I discovered last weekend.
My "issues" are as follows:
My shoulders. The first day you did ART on me, your initial comment was "you're F'd up". I'm a lefty, (the left bothers me more than the right during pressing movements) yet my right shoulder/arm hang a tad lower than my left. My flexibility in both shoulders are terrible.
I'm rhomboid dominant. My serratus are so weak that I can't do a full pushup plus from the floor. Have to do it incline. That's pretty embarrassing.
My psoas are weak (right weaker than left)
Anterior pelvic tilt. I know for sure that my hip flexors are really tight, but I think I also have weak abs.
Couldn't even begin to get my hips off the floor during the glute bridge.
Don't forget about my lack of posterior chain flexibility
Where in the world do I start?
I think I've only absorbed enough info from this weekend to get me in trouble. I have more studying to do. I could just become a couch potatoe and not worry about it...
This is about exercise progression/regression. You need to build the weak points to allow the safe performance of the full primary exercises (squats, lunges, presses, rows, etc.)
Try this:
1. Partial squat to bench (to prevent compensation)
2. glute bridge with 2 legs (then progress to single leg)
3. RDL/stiff legged deadlifts are most like okay assuming your range is monitored for compensation (rounding of the back). It also reinforces posterior chain flexibility
4. Elevated push-up with a plus
5. Y's, T's, I's
6. Psoas retraining like we showed with Danny. then incorporate that into traditional ab exercises.
7. Planks and side bridges with pelvis in neutral (remember the stick on the back to monitor neutral spine)
Foam roll stiff areas like your hip flexors before glute exercises and rhomboids before push-ups
Think like a baby. Build your squat mobility from the ground up. Use Rotation to improve spinal mobility. Lunge the same thing (remember the lunge stretch with rotation?)
If I could bother you again Bill, my wife was going through the assessment and had pain in her lower back during the overhead squat. She gets down to just above parallel, with some forward lean when the pain kicks in.
I think theres some excessive lumbar lordosis going on as well as some anterior pelvic tilt.
She's stretching & going to start foam roller work, just started plate squats & planks, stretches perscribed in the summit handbook, but what additional movements would be good for her to do?
Would you include RDLs and other posterior chain work?
btw, she does train regularly but has been leaving out barbell squats due to the lower back issues.
Thanks again for all your help!
Chris
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Working "hard," or the perception of working hard, doesn't really mean anything. Sweating, vomiting, and breathing hard could be a good workout or a tropical disease kicking in.-Dan John
JP Fitness Summit 2006 Questions
Are there other things that I should be doing to counteract the effects of 4 hours of driving and 2 hours of computer everday? Hopefully, my corrective work from the self-tests will cover it, but I'm guessing not...
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