i was just reading this month's MF and got through Alwyn's tips on improving workouts. he was saying that doing free standing exercises are better and challenges one's body more.
while this is quite true and completely agree w/ him on it. he also recommended that one should do dips instead of bench press.
now i do both, but use the dips as a complimentary routine to the bench press. actually dips is being primarily for my triceps, but i know the work also emphasises my lower pecs as well.
i wanted to know what others thought. should i one give up bench press for the dips, or am i on the righ path?
thanks
quaribc
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I haven't read the article you reference in which Alwyn recommends doing dips instead of bench presses. I would be very interested in hearing his response/clarification to your question.
IMO, they are complementary movements - both should be done, but, like all exercises and routines, you should periodically vary the exercises/order/repscheme/load ing/rest periods in your workouts.
Well he does specify that the dips-instead-of-bench idea is for hardgainers in particular. It seems to be all about the number of muscles worked vs. the energy output. (A hardgainer wanting to limit the calories burned.)
It seems to be all about the number of muscles worked vs. the energy output.
Precisely Rock. I'll let Alwyn reply, though, because he'll explain it better than me anyway.
As for the story--certainly don't take it out of context. He wasn't saying never do benches again, but his point was to work as much muscle as possible in every single lift.
The goal is to involve as much muscle mass (and overload it) as possible with any exercise. It's the 'key' to putting on muscle. Dips recruit more overall muscle than bench presses do. Same as squats recruit more muscle than leg presses (even if you can put more weight on the leg sled !).
Anytime you sit or lie down - you 'switch off' some of your muscles. So they don't need to work - and therefore they don't need to grow. It's not that bench presses are a bad exercise - it's just lower on the list for this type of a routine than dips are. BTW - both are horizontal push exercises - so you don't NEED to do both.(There is no lower pec anatomically btw).
Also - in my entire history of training people - I've never met anyone who did too many dips and not enough bench presses !
OldGuy, How could you do that with gravity? It would seem impossible to sit upright unsupported, and push weight in a horizontal movement without some type of guide like a smith machine sideways.
I love my Dip station. I got a Dipping belt and no it pretty much replaces the barbell bench press.
OldGuy, How could you do that with gravity? It would seem impossible to sit upright unsupported, and push weight in a horizontal movement without some type of guide like a smith machine sideways.
Hammer Jammer, more of an incline angle but completely unsupported none-the-less.
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College of the Canyons, CA http://www.canyons.edu/departments/pe/strength
"NO CHAMPION HAS EVER ACHIEVED HIS OR HER GOAL WITHOUT SHOWING MORE DEDICATION THAN THE NEXT PERSON; MAKING MORE SACRIFICES THAN THE NEXT PERSON; WORKING HARDER, TRAINING, AND CONDITIONING HIM / HERSELF MORE THAN THE NEXT PERSON; ENJOYING HIS / HER FINAL GOAL MORE THAN THE NEXT PERSON"
Maybe with some kind of cable set up. I don't know, the wheels were turning. And I was thinking about doing it in a standing position. If you could and had to stabilize yourself against the pushing of the weight, you would have to recruit almost your whole body. Of course it would be a really light weight.
Edited: Yeah, kinds like that Dos.
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I actually think 'oldguy' might have been thinking of one of the vertical bench press machines you find at the gym. I believe I have seen some research (way back...) that showed that even supported presses like these vertical BP machines are better than supine positioned machines or weight movements (in terms of actual strength transfer to a standing position).
BTW, you can also do tis movement with a 'free motion' machine or one othe new kaiser deals.
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Robert dos Remedios, MA, CSCS,
HCC (Hartman-Cosgrove Certified)
Director of Speed, Strength & Conditioning
College of the Canyons, CA http://www.canyons.edu/departments/pe/strength
"NO CHAMPION HAS EVER ACHIEVED HIS OR HER GOAL WITHOUT SHOWING MORE DEDICATION THAN THE NEXT PERSON; MAKING MORE SACRIFICES THAN THE NEXT PERSON; WORKING HARDER, TRAINING, AND CONDITIONING HIM / HERSELF MORE THAN THE NEXT PERSON; ENJOYING HIS / HER FINAL GOAL MORE THAN THE NEXT PERSON"
in my head while doing dips you are pushing your weight up, and then lowering it down, which would make it a vertical movement.. im not arguing against its classification as a horizontal movement, but was hoping someone could explain it to me.
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i know that anatomically there isn't a lower pec. however, i was looking through "Strength Training Anatomy" and it was showing that dips emphasis the lower portion of the pectoral muscle.
however, after reading the article i just did dips today and no bench in my 5x5 routine i've been doing.
honestly, i'm not looking to increase my bench or anything. i just want to get as much done in as little time as possible. the dips gave me a good workout and w/ weights and trying to hold my body up...i see what you mean about working multiple muscles.
am i the only one who's not a fan of the bench and enjoys deadlifts more?
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Originally posted by JimBo123: i'm not a fan of the bench press. So it would be good to replace the bench with dips? where do pushups fit into this?
i don't want to give the idea that I "replace" exercise with one another. The article is about using as much muscle as possible in each exercise. So with that in mind - dips beat out the bench.
I think push ups are great - they are just too easy generally as a mass builder.
i don't want to give the idea that I "replace" exercise with one another. The article is about using as much muscle as possible in each exercise. So with that in mind - dips beat out the bench.
I think push ups are great - they are just too easy generally as a mass builder.
AC
don't AC i got you. i am very clear at what you were saying. i know went and benched 300lbs for reps and he hates doing bench. btw...he can somehow attach 135lbs off his waist and do dips for 12 reps or more. how's that for strength.
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Originally posted by quaribc:
am i the only one who's not a fan of the bench and enjoys deadlifts more?
Bench presses are my least favorite exercise. #1 for me are deadlifts followed by dips and chinups. I do incline db presses usually, but flat bb presses are horribly boring and I don't feel the same sense of accomplishment as a deadlift, etc.
it was said years ago that dips are to the upper body what squats are to the lower body.
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I like doing dips, & after reading this, i like it even more [img]smile.gif[/img] . Of course, i know that AC's not saying that Dips can replace Bench Press [img]smile.gif[/img] . Btw, i have more question about doing Dips. Keep ur elbows closer to ur body or further apart to target the chests?
Originally posted by quaribc: i know went and benched 300lbs for reps and he hates doing bench. btw...he can somehow attach 135lbs off his waist and do dips for 12 reps or more. how's that for strength.
That's way more impressive than a 300lb bench press in my opinion !
Sometimes routines call for different types of bench presses: close grip, wide grip, etc. Are there different styles of dips that compare to these?
It seems like the more vertical you dip, the more you focus on triceps. The more you lean forward, the more focus on the chest. Are there other dip styles, too?
I have a dip station that has 2 grips that get wider as you get further from the stand. In other word, I can do dip that barely clean my hips, to dips that are so wide, I can only do 1-3 dips without weight. And I do find that by leaning forward, my chest get's hit harder. which would make sense...
:p 
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