Substituting Sprints for Leg Lifts

[Symbolic]

"To err is human, to forgive is divine." I'm really hoping those that I have pissed off will find it in their hearts to respond to this one. Seriously, I have a vexing question and I'm not in the mood to debate (although I reserve the right ).

The basic question is how does one incorporate sprinting with leg lifts (e.g., squats) without overtraining the legs? Aren't sprints enough stimulation for the legs, especially for one who's not a bodybuilder or competitive athlete? Wouldn't it be better to do more sprinting in lieu of leg lifts given the added fat burning benefit of sprints? Moreover, isn't sprinting more "functional" than a leg lift? It seems to me that sprinting combined with upper body lifting would be an effective total body workout for one interested in maximum fitness but who doesn't have the time to do it all. Add to this the desire to throw in some prophylactic steady state work and it seems like the legs would get trashed.

[dos]

Symbolic posted.....

Wouldn't it be better to do more sprinting in lieu of leg lifts given the added fat burning benefit of sprints?

Hold the presses! Sprints are an effective fat burner???!!

In all seriousness, there are many other benefits of squats and the loads that they normally entail. Testosterone levels would be one that would affect all of us. Also, while sprints are a great exercise for the hip extensors and knee flexors, they are not great for the quads. We also get great core work when doing squats. As far as being more 'specific', it would depend on what activities you are referring to. Lastly, sprints are usually much tougher than squats so adherance might be a problem.

[Symbolic]

Funny Dos. Hey, I never said that I didn't buy into your point. I was just trying to explore another point of view. I'd like to try this approach. I'll be the first to testify if it works for me. As one who always came in last place during 100 yard dashes in school, but who has a PR of 15:40 in the 5k, I'm a good test case to see if sprints can work on a slow twitch guy.

So, will you share your wisdom in response to my question? Here: "Please."

[dos]

Sorry....I edited my original post with more info.

[dos]

I have (years ago) a 5K personal best of 19:40 and a 45:10 10K....not bad for a 240lb. fast-twitch guy huh? Clydesdales RULE!

[Symbolic]

Dos, those are incredibly fast times. Think about how much energy it required to move 240lbs for that duration and intensity. At the time I did my PR, I weighed 160lbs at 6'1". I'm currently 195 with only a bit more body fat. There's no way I could come close to that time today. I doubt I could match your times either.

[dos]

I am SURE that I can't match those times either! I was doing much more mileage back in those days as opposed to much more cross-training that I do these days. I can match some of my earlier mile or mile and a 1/2 times but not much further than that.

[Chris Correia]

Not looking to substitute sprints for squats or other leg work. But, what about hill running/sprints? Wouldn't the quads (and glutes, perhaps) see more action on a moderately steep hill?

Of course, in Korea, I had to run (or try to) carry a 200+ lb guy (me at 5-5, 160) up a long, steep hill. It quickly turned into a "one step at a time" grinding walk. Wasn't fast, but I did it!

[Alwyn]

Hill sprints are hell. Just wanted to add that.

Ok - this doesn't answer the question directly but it illustrates why S&C specialists/coaches need to do both.

There are distinct advantages to doing both heavy squatting etc and more explosive work (plyos sprints etc)- particularly for athletes. And based on the fitness level and physiques of most athletes I think people interested in general fitness can learn from that. Remember the general fitness and physiques of athletes are a SIDE EFFECT of training - they focus on performance and the rest takes care of itself.

So if we define general fitness as the desire to improve everything to an extent .....

The key is to look at the force-velocity curve. In order to be a superior explosive athlete you need to train at both ends. You need to increase your overall force (ie raise the curve higher) and decrease your time taken to APPLY that force (ie move the force-velocity curve to the left). a powerlifter (horrible term as they don't express power in relation to time) has a lot or force but applies it slower. A gymnast may apply less total force - yet apply it at a much higher rate.

e.g. you can bench press 400lbs. It takes you 4 seconds. I can only bench press 125lbs but it only takes me 0.25s. Who's the stronger ? You. But in a battle of who can apply their strength (in most sports - speed is king) I'm 'stronger'. When the referee says "go" I'll be able to hit you with 125lbs of force before you can.

If there is an art or a secret to sports training - that's it. Designing programs to improve both ends of the curve.

AC

[poopy pants]

Originally posted by dos:
I am SURE that I can't match those times either! I was doing much more mileage back in those days as opposed to much more cross-training that I do these days. I can match some of my earlier mile or mile and a 1/2 times but not much further than that.

What were your mile and mile and a half times Dos?

[Chris Correia]

Thanks for that input Alwyn.

Now that I think of it, I haven't had hill work included in my running for a while. I did it consistently for one of my running days each week for about 3 months last year getting ready for my Korea trip. I'm convinced it helped tremendously, though I was not doing short sprints; I did 30 - 60 second hill intervals on a pretty steep hill.

Per your ebook recommendation to focus on speed work, I've recently started doing 10 second sprints two days a week as my running. But now I think I'll do them on hills one of the two days.

[Symbolic]

Thanks Alwyn.

My general concern has to do with overtraining my legs. It seems to me that doing sprints makes more sense than leg lifts given my interest in body composition and general health. I use weights and bodyweight exercises for the upper body because it's practical. Since I have limited time to workout and, at 36 years old, diminishing recovery abilities, it makes sense to me that sprinting is a time saving (although not optimal) way to give the legs a great workout while burning fat and increasing fitness. Add to this that I enjoy running. I suppose someone with more time and/or who doesn't enjoy (or can't) run wouldn't be a candidate. Put differently, what harm might be done in omitting leg lifts and exclusively doing sprints?

Aren't I agreeable when I don't pretend to understand a subject?

[Alwyn]

I would probably do one lower body workout (or even just add a couple of set of squats /deadlifts to an upper body workout) and do one sprint or plyo based session each cycle. That way you are still exposed to loading. Remember - there is nothing physiological about a seven day week - so you don't have to do X number of workouts per 'week'. You could do two upper one week and one lower and reverse that the following week. This builds in the recovery.

As far as recovery goes -- only you can tell - so just monitor it. In my experience though lack of recovery tends to be related to too much volume - never too much intensity. So go harder and do less if it becomes a problem.

AC

[dos]

Not looking to substitute sprints for squats or other leg work. But, what about hill running/sprints? Wouldn't the quads (and glutes, perhaps) see more action on a moderately steep hill?

Quads...no. Turn around and run up the hill backward, now we're talking quad-burn!

Walking backward while dragging a weight on the ground (sled) is also a killer on the quads and hip flexors.

[Chris Correia]

Originally posted by dos:

quote:

---

Not looking to substitute sprints for squats or other leg work. But, what about hill running/sprints? Wouldn't the quads (and glutes, perhaps) see more action on a moderately steep hill?

Quads...no. Turn around and run up the hill backward, now we're talking quad-burn!

Walking backward while dragging a weight on the ground (sled) is also a killer on the quads and hip flexors. [/quote]OK, I can do that backwards! But, then, something(s) get more work running uphill the normal way. WHAT??? [img]smile.gif[/img]

[dos]

sorry Chris.....you get more overload on the hip extensors (glutes, hams) so if feels much worse than running on a flat surface. You get the same effect when running stairs, pulling a sled or towing a parachute as well.

[Chris Correia]

Originally posted by dos:
sorry Chris.....you get more overload on the hip extensors (glutes, hams) so if feels much worse than running on a flat surface. You get the same effect when running stairs, pulling a sled or towing a parachute as well.

Thank you. Now I am fulfilled. [img]smile.gif[/img]

[kinney1]

Symbolic,
While I don't have the experience of some of the posters on this board, I have similar goals to you (overall health and fitness, from what I have read). I do not get a lot of sleep, with my first child and recovery is also an issue.

I am currently lifting weights for my upper body 2/3 a week. On the first day of the week (usually mondays) I have recovered a bit from no lifting on the weekend. So I will pick one leg exercise to add on to my upper body routine. I usually do light weight DB squats for about 15 reps.

Additionally, I will do sprint work once a week, and two days of 30 minute treadmill runs (traditional steady state cardio). I find that sprint work can beat your body up similar to weight lifting, so I feel like doing sprint work once a week provides good variety for my body.

Monday - Upper body weightlifting (6-10 total sets), & 3 sets of a lower body exercise
Tuesday - Sprints and some basic core work
Wednesday - Upper boody weightlifting (6-10 total sets)
Thursday - 30 minute treadmill run/or speedwalking
Friday - Upper body weightlifitng (6-10 total sets)
Saturday - 30 minute treadmill run/ or speedwalking, core work
Sunday - Off

I keep my workouts short, and I stretch for a couple of minutes everyday. I try to hit my legs ealry in the week, and let them recover for the rest of the week, although I still put them through some steady state runs.