getting stronger, but not gaining tone or mass

[gandalf7]

I'm worried. I've been lifting for awhile, and I'm getting stronger, but I'm not gaining any muscle tone, really; I'm still pretty flabby. What makes the situation weirder is this: over the summer/fall I was lifting a lot, gaining mass, etc., and everything was going great. Then a combination of illnesses and just being busy kept me away from the gym until may. I of course had lost strength and mass, but I've been working out consistently since then, and I'm basically lifting the same amount of weight that I was in the fall. I've started eating less, for health and money concerns (I ate like a pig before), so that could be a reason why I'm not getting big, but I'd think that I should at least have more tone than I do. It almost seems like I'm losing tone. About the only exercise where I don't feel solid strength gains in is my bench, for whatever reason.

Possible reasons that I can think of for losing/not gaining tone:

lack of sleep -- but I usually get 6-8;

not enough protein -- I think I'm getting around 50-70 (I weigh 180), but that should be enough to prevent loss of tone, at least, right?;

not lifting enough -- I do feel on some exercises that I could be lifting more, but on my squats, for instance, I really feel like I'm pushing myself yet I'm not getting bigger legs or even more toned legs;

not spacing meals properly -- perhaps the food I do eat is too little and not at the right times? Yet I try to have something with protein in it every 3-4 hours or so . . .

not enough meat -- I really don't eat a lot of meat (it's too expensive!), but isn't it supposed to be better for muscles than protein from other sources?


Sorry for the long post. I'd really appreciate some insight into this situation. Thanks!

[Vlad]

Im still a pretty big newb to this, but I think its because of your diet. Your body isnt getting enough energy and protein from the foods you eat to help you recover. Your body is tapping into the proteins and muscles in your body for some quick energy.

Thats my guess. (Im still learning) [img]smile.gif[/img]

[Blackjack]

We'll probably need some specifics about your workout (sets, reps, which exercises) & diet (eg calories, %Protein, %Carbs & %Fats)

[bobby]

What do you mean by toned? This means a lot of different things to different people. Since you said you are getting stronger try to not worry so much about looking more toned right away, give it some time, you'll get there. Also take pictures every couple weeks to track your progress.

You also mentioned that your nutrition might be a little lacking. This can play a very important role in changing your body's composition. I would recommend checking out www.johnberardi.com. Berardi is very well respected in the weight lifting community and has some great articles on how to eat right as well as how to stay motivated. Specifically I would try checking out this articleProtein Prejudice this article addresses how much protein is needed to build muscle, and to prevent muscle loss. I hope this helps you out a little bit. Let us know if you have any more questions.

Also like blackjack said, give us more specifics, and check out these list of workout routines click here
Good Luck,
bobby

[m1ke101]

It doesn't look like you are getting enough protein. I believe the recommendation is 1g/lb of bodyweight, so you need 100+ more.

[Saircon]

Gandalf7

Thank you for the nice question. Let's get the terms straight first. Tone, or toning has nothing to do with the appearence. It represents a neural innervation to the related muscle or muscle groups. So, each time your muscles contract, you are getting some tone my friend [img]smile.gif[/img]

I think what you asking for is how to incease muscle mass? Our metabolism, has 2 opposing control systems which work like ying and yang, creating an optimal balance in the body. One of them is the tissue distructive control system (sympathetic branch) and the other is the tissue building or recovery control system (parasympathetic branch). What most people do not realize is that workouts we do in the gym stimulates the tissue distructive control system, thus it actualy is catabolic. Therefore, if someone is having problems gaining muscle/s, it is not due to lack of workout, it is due to lack of enough rest and recovery.

First thing I would recommend is to take at least 2 weeks off from your routine. You can simply do some thai-chi, qi-gong, stretching and massages during that period, but NOT a strenoious activity.

Next thing I would suggest is to start going to bed earlier. Of course it is important the amount of sleep you are getting, however for your growth and repair hormone function, optimum is to be in bed before 10:30 pm and at least getting 8 hours of sleep. Before we invented the artificial light sources, human being did go to bed around 9-10 pm and woke up with the sun.

More anabolic workouts. You don't wanna stay in the gym any more than 45-50 minutes. This excludes the postural work and flexibility exercises. Also to get an anabolic effect from your exercises, lift one or 2 reps lesser than what actually you can do. Lets say you can lift 100 lbs 8 times, do 6 times with that weight. You might be feeling at the end of 45 minutes workout like "c'mon, i still have some energy left, i can do a few more exercises!!" but hold that energy and do not spend it. I know it will be difficult at the beginning but trust me, it will help you get results.

Last thing I would recommend, start reading about "metabolic typing diet". One of the greatest books I've enjoyed was "The Metabolic Typing Diet" by William Wolcott. Everybody has a unique oxidation and digestion therefore, one man's food, other man's poison. You should eat according to your metabolic type to function better.

I hope these help. Stay healthy,

[von_Hayes]

is the tissue distructive control system (sympathetic branch) and the other is the tissue building or recovery control system (parasympathetic branch). What most people do not realize is that workouts we do in the gym stimulates the tissue distructive control system, thus it actualy is catabolic. Therefore, if someone is having problems gaining muscle/s, it is not due to lack of workout, it is due to lack of enough rest and recovery.


adipose tissue was reported to be innervated by the sympathetic nervous system only, known for its catabolic effect. the central part of the autonomic nervous system, as intra-abdominal and subcutaneous fat pads appeared to be innervated by separate sympathetic and parasympathetic motor neurons. In conclusion, parasympathetic input to adipose tissue clearly modulates its insulin sensitivity and glucose and FFA metabolism in an anabolic way.
this was taken from the university of Amsterdam.

[gandalf7]

Thanks everyone for the responses. It seems that I'm just doing everything wrong lol. I haven't done a calorie/day count, but here's basically what I eat:

Breakfast: bowl of oatmeal and some yogurt.
Lunch: turkey sandwich, half a plate each of broccoli and spinach.
Dinner: chicken breast maybe, or some spaghetti, with a carrot or two and some beans.

In between meals I'll have a snack, along the lines of a bagel and almonds; I have a protein shake with dinner, normally, and a glass of milk and some fish oil before bed.

As for what I mean by toned: a firmness to the muscles. I don't really feel any firmness to my muscles, and I thought that they should at least be firm if they're being trained.

I agree, I'm probably not getting enough rest.

What exactly is an anabolic workout and why should I do it? Is this a temporary measure?

[lomo]

Anabolic means to "build muscle" and it's opposite, catabolic means to "break down muscle." What Von Hayes is saying is correct. Lifting weights naturally causes your nervous system to enter in a catabolic state. That is, after you work out, your body begins to break down your muscles. It isn't until almost 24 hours later that your body is back in it's anabolic state and ready to build muscle and start your growing. If you work out too often, it is counter-productive because you won't be spending enough time (if at all) in the anabolic state. There are some people that can work out almost every day, but for the rest of us, we grow when we are resting, not in the gym.

It sounds weird and counter-intuitive but the reason that people can lift weights and not lose all of their muscles is because they are controlling how their body reacts after they lift. It is pretty simple to swing your body's reaction to an anabolic state instead of a catabolic state.

The hour immediately following a workout is when your muscles are primed for muscle development, but without a proper nutritional strategy, this phase after a workout is catabolic. The best strategy is to consume a carbohydrate drink with protein immediately after a workout to improve your recovery and lead to a net increase in muscle size or quality. With this, you won't have to wait 24 hours to grow, but you will start to recover and grow right away. A drink is ideal because it is absorbed quickly since this window isn't much. An adequate last resort is a high-carb, whole grain cereal and a protein shake, but expect half of the results of the liquid carb/protein drink. Only eat the cereal and shake in an emergency, because it is better than nothing.

Try a mixture of a scoop of Gatorade powder in 1L of water with a scoop of whey protein. Whey will be absorbed by your body quickly enough. Meal replacement powders and protein from lean meants are metabolized too slowly for this window. Try for a 2:1 carbohydrate to protein ratio during this time. Carbs have gotten a lot of bad press lately, but this period is the optimum time to consume them especially if you want your body to have the energy to recovery efficiently.

To maximize the benefits, you could try consuming this "recovery" drink three-fold. One before, sip one during, and one immediately after. It is up to you and your wallet. You can also purchase pre-formulated recovery drinks which are chock full of amino acids and such, but they are priced pretty outrageously, usually around $2-$3 per serving. And with three servings per workout, three workouts per week, it is a heap of cash.

Now that your have kicked your body into an anabolic gear, your metabolism will be racing until the next day and you will have to eat a lot (500-1,000 extra calories depending on your weight) to make up for the difference and to give your body the resources to build muscle (You need at least 500 extra calories a day to build one pound of muscle a week, even more calories if you weigh more).

There is a ton of information in this forum on proper nutrition and from what it looks like, you need to eat more and make sure they are quality sources. And like everyone says, 8-9 hours of sleep is manditory--or else you just won't get the results you want, whatever they may be.

[Saircon]

As an holistic practitioner, I will have to disagree at some points with lomo;

In general, what you touched about catabolic vs. anabolic is true and I agree that nutrition and lifestyle factors are perhaps more important than our exercise routine to stay in the anabolic state. However, these are my points:

1) When we talk about being in a catabolic state, we talk about chronic overload of the Sypmpathetic Nervous System. This doesn't happen after the single bout of an exercise program, it is a cumulative stress that our bodies is having trouble adjusting in the long run. Single weight lifting routine does not create much of a catabolic state because most resistance training programs are usually under an hour.(Hopefully [img]smile.gif[/img] )

Certain training programs that include both aerobic, and anaerobic stimulus, also lasts more than an hour (such as a heavy soccer training program, or a tennis game that lasts many sets etc.) more likely require nutritional support immediatelly following the workout.

My point is that chronic catabolic condition is different than acute catabolic condition. Therefore, to overcome the chronic catabolic problems one should pay attention to his metabolic individuality (as I talked before about metabolic typing diet), his overall processed food and refined sugar intake (you would be surprised if you knew how that little sucker can get into every single thing we eat in different forms, for example; according to a research, there are more refined sugars in kethcups than most icecreams) and his circadian rythm (sleep/wake cycles). Because actual physiological recovery occurs during the first half of the sleep, between 10 PM and 2 AM. Not right after the workout.

2) My other point is about supplementation. We have to eat whole (close to the mother nature) foods that our visceral, hormonal, digestive, detoxification etc. systems are designed to process. How come we don't realize that the human body is 80% water as we pour sugar drinks of neon blue and fluorescent green down our gullets? How come we don't realize that human beings were harvesting grains less than 10 thousand years (which is a tiny little period comparing to the entire 2,8 million years of evolution) as we swallow those fancy boxes of cerals? How come we don't realize that for thousands of years, we digested our foods stuff with host of essential secondary nutrients and enzymes which mother nature naturally delivered ALL TOGETHER , as we take boxes of supplements that broken the whole natural foods into microscopic parts? No wonder why obesity is still an epidemic. No wonder why health care costs about 14 million dollars a minute? No wonder why more than 40% of people who applied for armed services are rejected due to poor health. The list goes on and on, which I am sure you are all aware of...

[TY_Webb]

How come we don't realize that the human body is 80% water

that estimate is a little high. Babies have the most, being born at about 78%. By one year of age,
that amound drops to about 65%. In adult men, about 60% of their bodies
are water. However, fat tissue does not have as much water as lean tissue.
In adult women, fat makes up more of the body than men, so they have about
55% of thier bodies made of water. Fat men also have less water (as a
percentage) than thin men.

[Saircon]

TY_Webb,

I saw you did some google search and copy pasted some information However, that doesn't change the reality that we are designed to drink water, nothing else. So please let's concentrate on the real point, not on the details! By the way, at the cellular level, single cell is composed of 80% water.

Stay healthy

[Lost Dog]

Gandalf7,

I'd be curious to see your stats (height, weight, body fat %), plus a couple day's detail of your diet, logged in fitday.

Also, your lifting routine, if you wouldn't mind posting it. Although, like some of the others said, your diet is likely the key factor.

[TY_Webb]

However, that doesn't change the reality that we are designed to drink water, nothing else. So please let's concentrate on the real point, not on the details! By the way, at the cellular level, single cell is composed of 80% water.

first of all, don't talk down to me. second, you were trying to make a point and you posted incorrect information.

[von_Hayes]

I think I remember (this was way back in bio 101) that cytoplasm was something like 70% water.

[Saircon]

Paul Chek, neuromuscular therapist and a holistic practitioner is my reference.

http://www.chekinstitute.com/pdf/EMBH-Chapter-1.pdf