Flutter Kick...how important?

[Jimbo]

Only just started swimming "seriously" (well..not professionally) just seriously using swimming for fitness.

I'm trying to become more efficient at it. One of my struggles is developing an acceptable flutter kick. Though I never did that much swimming, it seems that I did enough to develop a bad flutter kick. I have a habit of kicking ONCE with the opposite foot that I am stroking with my arm..in other words..right arm stroke/left foot kicks/left arm strokes/right foot kicks.

This works okay. But I'm definitely not very fast with this so I have been playing around trying to figure out what works and doesn't work.

I have found that I can ignore the habit and do some serious kicking but my kick is more of a kick than a "flutter". Using a float board, I find that doing a real "flutter" type kick, I just stay suspended in one spot. I don't move much at all. I don't see how a "flutter" type kick can propel me?

I've found videos but no real good shots of the kick going on..

Anyone know of a diagram or animation showing the proper mechanics?

[ODB]

Remember that your kick needs to come from your hips not your knees. That is the biggest mistake I see people make with their kick. Try not using the kickboard (it tends to put your body in a different position than you normally swim). Do some laps of just kicking with your arms streched out in front of you, hands flat and almost touching. Only stroke when you need to take a breath. One stroke, breath, and back in position. Focus on your kick coming from your hips. When you kick from your knees the action of bringing your lower leg up for the next kick will actually push you in the opposite direction of where you want to go. Don't lock your knees but do try to keep your whole leg fairly straight and let the power come from your hips. Hope that helps.

[emartin10]

I find that my whole kick pattern is based on really short, really powerful kicks, directly from the hips like Joe is saying. However, the main purpose of kicking for ME is to assist in breathing, helping me get my head around if that makes sense. I don't kick at all for speed, and I know this is a hinderance, but my stroke seems to be working just peachy at this point.

E

[ODB]

When you're doing a tri you may want to make your stroke mainly dependant on your upper body as you will need your legs later. You shouldn't need to use your legs for your breath if you work on your body roll more. When swimming laps in a pool focus on keeping your head looking down and ahead and having your shoulders roll to the point that the side taking the stroke is pointed at the line and the other shoulder is pointed straight up. I hope that makes sense. The correct roll will allow you to breath with just a slight turn of the head and your stroke will be stronger.

To test what I'm saying about the pull, go to a lat pull machine that you can stand up at. Stand with the pull down in front of you and try to pull down some weight without moving your body just bring your arm straight down. Now do the same with it at the side. You'll find that you get better leverage from the side. It works that way in the pool also.

[emartin10]

I think Joe makes a good point, my stroke is very different than just a pure swimmer's, since mine is focused on saving my legs. Good point my friend.

E

[Jimbo]

Very good point about the stroke/lat pull down example. I never thought of it that way. Hmm. Realizing this will probably increase my stroke effectiveness.

As for the kick..I will try it without the board. Should be interesting.

When I try doing the kick up and down from my hip..it just seems to be so inaffective in moving me across the water..while I can use my current kick and move pretty well (this was during my kick board experiments) But it wore me out pretty well too. I knew that what I was doing was not at all efficient and I must be trying the flutter improperly.

Like I said..I wish I could see it done from different angles to understand the correct movement.

[Q.]

Check out the Total Immersion archives.

I used to go NOWHERE when I just used my legs but shoulder injuries are the main one that swimmers have to deal with so I'd hate to rely on it too much. I, also, agree that using the kickboard puts you in a totally unnatural position so I don't ever do that. I do, however, swim on my back and have developed a pretty good kick. I could swim laps just about forever this way and can keep up with the slower swimmers just with my legs.

Gotta go but, if this doesn't make sense, let me know and I'll explain.

(I smell a SWIMMING area:p)

[Jimbo]

Originally Posted by Q.

I do, however, swim on my back and have developed a pretty good kick. I could swim laps just about forever this way and can keep up with the slower swimmers just with my legs.

That's a thought too.

What about using fins? does using fins mimick the proper flutter kick? I mean..are you forced to use the proper form in order to affectively use them? Just asking..

[ODB]

Originally Posted by Jimbo

That's a thought too.

What about using fins? does using fins mimick the proper flutter kick? I mean..are you forced to use the proper form in order to affectively use them? Just asking..

Fins should be a part of your training. It does help form.

[LisaS]

how is your plantar flexion - are your ankles tight or good mobility?

[castufari]

Originally Posted by LisaS

how is your plantar flexion - are your ankles tight or good mobility?

Lisa beat me to it, dang.

If your ankles are tight you'll either stay stationary when you kick or you'll go backwards. It happens to a lot of people, you're not alone. Work on making your ankles looser and you might see some forward movement.

For me I could get by w/o kicking and swim the same speed. My ankles are screwed up and aren't too flexible. Today I swam with my legs tied at the ankles and felt no slowdown.

Fins on the other hand, jeez, I can go to frigging town with fins on. All those years of bodyboarding helped some.

[Ogedei]

Originally Posted by emartin10

I think Joe makes a good point, my stroke is very different than just a pure swimmer's, since mine is focused on saving my legs. Good point my friend.

E

I was gonna make this point as well.

I am not nearly as good as Eric but I don't use my legs much at all when I swim. I swim for exercise and because I want to be able to do tris.

My kicking is mainly an attempt to keep those legs aligned with my body, if I don't kick somewhat they sink and create a drag.

I know my kick sucks. I firmly believe I kick from the knees.

Sucks. probably something I should work on.

Og.

[Q.]

Originally Posted by ODB

Fins should be a part of your training. It does help form.

I wouldn't argue this point because ODB comes from a long swimming background but I never use fins, unless I'm in Cozumel , and my kick has improved greatly! I can't tell you why exactly but doing laps on my back, face up, allows me to work my legs hard and not be limited by breath. When I switch back to freestyle, I always feel like I'm moving faster.

[ODB]

I'm probably starting to sound like a broken record. You're right about kicking on your back. I can really move while doing it. It is a good workout for the muscles you use for freestyle kicking and the form is close to correct. The issue comes in when you flip back over and are working on a proper stroke with a smooth body roll it can be hard to keep your timing right and you tend to start doing a leg drag (not really kicking efficiently). Again, form is everything in swimming.

Also remember to keep your head back and your hips up when you are kicking on your back or you'll screw up your form. It's not as comfortable but putting your arms straight out over your head will help with this if you have a problem with your hips dropping.

Man, you guys are making me really dig into my vault. Thanks for making me remember this stuff. I'm starting to feel like getting more swimming in again.

[Q.]

Originally Posted by ODB

Also remember to keep your head back and your hips up when you are kicking on your back or you'll screw up your form. It's not as comfortable but putting your arms straight out over your head will help with this if you have a problem with your hips dropping.

When I'm doing it, the water is at the edge of my goggles. I didn't add this before but I also have one arm fully extended "above" me... that is, in the water in front of me. The idea of "lengthening the vessel" and reduing drag seems to work and this is part of it. I generally switch arms each length but change it up.

I also roll to my sides, back to face down and every angle in between at times so the whole thing seems very comfortable

[SunshineChick]

Today I "got" the making breathing easier with rolling thing. It really does make it easier.

[ODB]

Originally Posted by SunshineChick

Today I "got" the making breathing easier with rolling thing. It really does make it easier.

Yeah!