I am just beginning to learn how to swim (properly, that is-I can not drown pretty well. ) I have a friend who is helping me a bit, although I think I will be mostly on my own for now. Swimming will likely be my main form of cardio henceforth due to some significant knee issues. Until now, I've mostly been doing HIIT 2-3X week with maybe a steady state thrown in too. I'm not really good enough yet to go fast for intervals. Any advice?
Thanks!!!
Do you have any coaching available or other swimmers to work with. I highly recommend hooking up with a masters team if one is available. They will have a lot of set workouts and appeal to all levels of swimmers.
If we talk swimming often enough, do we get our own area of JPFitness??? Hey, the runners have one!
Check out the TI magazine archives. I'm big into TI and, if you go to their forum (hey, we don't have swimming here ), you'll find me as BradMM. I bought the book and the DVD for freestyle swimming and they've helped a lot!
Just this morning, I was reading about breathing. I noticed that I was holding my breath and that it was limiting my workout so it occured to me that I needed to fully exhale before taking in a breath (as in underwater)! You can't take in air at the same time as exhaling and you quickly get into O2 deficit if you don't manage your breathing right.
Coincidentally, I was on the phone talking to the author of the article this morning discussing upcoming training sessions.
New swimmers and triathletes often ask, “If I’m in such great shape, running and cycling, why can’t I swim one length of the pool without feeling out of breath?” Well, let’s explore that in all its dimensions. Ask yourself: “How many of the factors listed below may be at work in my swimming/drilling right now?” This exercise should help you understand that you’re not out of shape and give you the confidence to “stay the course” with your TI practice, rather than fear that, because drills don’t seem demanding, drill practice may be causing you to “go soft.”
Factor One: (The BIG ONE)
Most folks think that the stimulus to breathe is lack of Oxygen (O2). In fact, only about 25 percent of the O2 in the air we breathe is utilized as it’s transported through the body. The fact that exhaled breath has plenty of O2 left in it is what allows CPR to be effective.
Carbon Dioxide (CO2), on the other hand, is only found in minute quantities of the air we inspire, but constitutes about 5% of what we exhale. We produce CO2 as a byproduct of energy production at the cellular level. The more active you are, the more CO2 you produce and transport to the lungs where it’s exchanged for fresh air. Out with the bad air, in with the good. This increasing level of CO2 in the blood is the brain’s chemical signal to breathe.
At rest, we breathe between 10 and 15 times per minute or once every 4-6 seconds. With strenuous activity such as running or cycling you might finding yourself breathing as often as 60 times a minute or more as your brain signals you to get rid of accumulating CO2 by breathing faster. No problem when you’re on the road or track. But what happens when your face is underwater? Your body rotation rhythm now dictates your respiratory rate, and this is often not rapid enough to satisfy the sensors in your brain.
Suppose, for example, that it takes you three cycles of Triple UnderSwitch and about 30 seconds to get from one end of the pool to the other. That equates to one breath every 10 seconds or so –compared to the usual rate of once each 4 to 5 seconds. Though you try to remain relaxed while doing the switches, at the end of the pool your brain still may say, “Blow off some CO2 until we’re back to baseline and comfortable again.” Again, this is purely brain chemistry, not conditioning. This is why we recommend three yoga breaths each time you roll to air in most drill practice.
Factor two:
Know then, that any breath-holding activity will cause you to compensate at the other end with deeper or more rapid respirations. Thus, we need to mimic as close to a normal breathing pattern as possible. If you hold your breath while you’re nose down – whether doing switches or whole-stroke – until the very last moment and then try to quickly exhale/inhale, as your face comes to the surface, you’re breath holding. To maintain a normal pattern, begin exhaling lightly from the moment you turn your head nose-down. This helps keep water out of the nose and the last bit of exhalation occurs as the nose clears the surface and you take a breath through your mouth.
Factor three:
During the late 1980’s an O2 usage study was conducted with some elite runners – Boston Marathon winners. O2 consumption was measured while the runner’s preferred, normal stride length was artificially manipulated on a treadmill. Slight alterations of either shortening or lengthening their preferred stride produced marked changes in oxygen consumption.
If you’re new to TI, you are probably engaged in trying to change your stroke length and rate. Until the new SL becomes routine for you, it would be normal to expect that the change may temporarily increase O2 consumption and CO2 production. As your economy of movement also improves, you should see a decrease in O2 consumption.
Hopefully, this has put your mind at ease. If you’re a triathlete, with the other training you’re doing, it’s highly unlikely you could be out of shape or “going soft” by doing drills. For each of us, breathing is the necessary evil. Becoming more skilled at rolling to air without losing your balance, or your “anchor” with the lead hand, is the challenge. Switch drills are essential to acquiring that skill. As your rhythmic breathing in whole-stroke becomes more seamless, practice breathing every cycle (breathing to your right on one length, to your left on the next) to insure that your respiratory rate is adequate. As that happens you will find yourself spending less time on the wall recovering between laps and swimming farther without fatigue. Ultimately each of you will find your own particular stroke length and rate that allows you to feel the freedom to continue with ease and pleasure. Be a student first and resist abandoning the pursuit of higher efficiency for the sake of training inefficient movement.
Just this morning, I was reading about breathing. I noticed that I was holding my breath and that it was limiting my workout so it occured to me that I needed to fully exhale before taking in a breath (as in underwater)! You can't take in air at the same time as exhaling and you quickly get into O2 deficit if you don't manage your breathing right.
After not swimming for a while I started last week. No TI classes here so I took one at the Y. Did basic stroke work last week (I can swim but I need help with my form), tonight it was breathing. Man, I was getting KILLED out there. After a few laps it started...3 strokes...exhale under water...then breath when your body rolls again.
Another thing...no need to rush. When I hit the pool I looked like Mark Spitz. I'd hit the end out of breath, after working on the breathing thing I ended the lap able to talk normally.
I vote for a swim forum. I'm doing it 4-5 days a week now and I'm a nebie at it too. I'm getting better at it though. I can do like 4 full laps before stopping so the breathing is getting better. It's one of the keys..and not rushing..and the turn around..
I hate to be the party pooper, but I doubt we need one, we don't have that much volume on swimming. At least not that I have seen anyhow.
__________________ 2009: No races, No times. Slow year. So, now you're 96 cals short. You're now in starvation mode. Doomed. - LostDog
Blog entry: November 1, 2009, Pancakes LiveSTRONG daily plate log
I hate to be the party pooper, but I doubt we need one, we don't have that much volume on swimming. At least not that I have seen anyhow.
Well..that could be because swimmers are hitting swimming forums at other web sites...that's what I've been doing. I'd love to have a forum right here "at home".
Well..that could be because swimmers are hitting swimming forums at other web sites...that's what I've been doing. I'd love to have a forum right here "at home".
I'm working on getting a swim forum guys....bare with me (and petition JP and the other mods) Once we get it maybe those of you who are on other boards can invite members of other forums you are on to visit and post. I'd hate to see it go the way of the climbing forum.
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Today's mighty oak was once just some nut who held his ground!
Sure we have some discussion here and there, but heck the majority of this thread which started about swimming has been about a swimming forum.
Og.
__________________ 2009: No races, No times. Slow year. So, now you're 96 cals short. You're now in starvation mode. Doomed. - LostDog
Blog entry: November 1, 2009, Pancakes LiveSTRONG daily plate log
I'm working on getting a swim forum guys....bare with me (and petition JP and the other mods) Once we get it maybe those of you who are on other boards can invite members of other forums you are on to visit and post. I'd hate to see it go the way of the climbing forum.
Groovy. Thanks! I needs guidance or I might drown.:p
Thanks for the suggestions. I've been away on business, and picked up the Total Immersion book but didn't get too far yet. There is a masters team locally at the Hall of Fame-I am definitely considering that once I can swim better but right now I don't think I have enough experience. Wait....is that like "I need to lose weight before I can go to the gym..."
Thanks for the suggestions. I've been away on business, and picked up the Total Immersion book but didn't get too far yet. There is a masters team locally at the Hall of Fame-I am definitely considering that once I can swim better but right now I don't think I have enough experience. Wait....is that like "I need to lose weight before I can go to the gym..."
Yes!
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Today's mighty oak was once just some nut who held his ground!
So I guess I should suck it up and join the Master's team-seriously, though, I can barely get one length without stopping!
Has anyone taken the Total Immersion weekend seminar? There's one about an hour from my house at the end of March. It's REALLY pricey-almost $500.
So I guess I should suck it up and join the Master's team-seriously, though, I can barely get one length without stopping!
Has anyone taken the Total Immersion weekend seminar? There's one about an hour from my house at the end of March. It's REALLY pricey-almost $500.
Not me. I bought one of the books and saw one of their videos. 500 bucks is steep for a 2 day event.
I watched the freestyle video on Thursday night then I went to the gym early Friday to swim. I spent the whole time practicing breathing and stroke. No idea how far I swam, I took my time and made sure that my FORM was good.
Sorry, didn't mean to sound....well, mean. I swam masters for several years and am thinking about getting back into it. Although I showed up with decent technique I was pretty out of shape when I started and was certainly not with the fast guys. As a matter of fact it was about 2 or 3 years later that I had finally gotten myself into the fast lane.
We had a lot of people of various abilities swimming with masters. We were all friends and I always felt like the better swimmers were more than happy to help the slower ones. We also had a coach who developed programs for every need. She would spend a little time with the faster swimmers (pushing us) and spend most of her time with slower swimmers helping them on technique. I recommend it because it was a really friendly atmosphere. I can't say that for all programs but you won't know until you give it a try.
As a side note, I never knew much about total immersion until one of the guys I was swimming with started the program. He actually went backward in ability for quite some time. So it's probably not for everyone but may be good for a beginner.
Anyway, Call the Masters Coach and see if he/she will let you try it out for a week or two. Can't hurt.
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Today's mighty oak was once just some nut who held his ground!
I'm working on getting a swim forum guys....bare with me (and petition JP and the other mods) Once we get it maybe those of you who are on other boards can invite members of other forums you are on to visit and post. I'd hate to see it go the way of the climbing forum.
I PM'ed JP a while back and said, if I get a swimming "expert" to answer questions, would he create a swimming forum? He said yes so I contacted one of the TI guys I've been talking to (not Terry... yet) and he just hasn't gotten back to me. The reason that I've been talking to the guy is because I've been saving up to attend the April TI course in Dallas. Yes, it's pricey but I believe that it's pretty hard to self-assess and would be worth it to have someone see you swim and provide feedback.
You can swim and swim and swim, trying to push yourself harder and harder but, if you are creating inefficient muscle memory programs, you may never know to do something different and will max out with the limitations of your current technique. So, from that perspective, I think TI could be good for people who have been swimming for a while, too, but not to the exclusion of other forms of instruction. I think it would help to define what you mean my "just beginning" because I've been swimming for a hell of a long time but I've only recently started questioning my technique and I never swam competitively.
If the JP retreat included swimming, too, then I could do one stop shopping!
I have NEVER had to swim in a lane with more than one person (we just stay on our side) and that's how I envision Master's swimming. That would be hard to get used to. "Suck" was the word that I was actually thinking of. Still, the instruction might make it worthwhile.
Yes, I frequent the TI forum and have a couple of the books and DVD.
ODB-I didn't think you sounded mean!!! No worries.
TI sounds really intriguing to me...the theory and principles of it very much appeal to me. I'm almost thinking to do the seminar in March and then maybe the Master's team...just can't quite wrap my head around the $500 for 2 days. I do think having the concentrated instruction would be really helpful though.
I do think the local Master's team is quite friendly. I briefly met the coach when my friend was showing me a few things at the pool.
Question-since I' just beginning and don't have drills memorized yet, do you write a list and take it to the pool?
You can swim and swim and swim, trying to push yourself harder and harder but, if you are creating inefficient muscle memory programs, you may never know to do something different and will max out with the limitations of your current technique.
This is what I was thinking. Better to create good habits then have to break bad ones.
Question-since I' just beginning and don't have drills memorized yet, do you write a list and take it to the pool?
They sell drill cards that you can buy or you could make your own and laminate them to take to the pool. I just leave with one thing in mind that I'm going to work on that day. When I get that one thing down pretty well - well enough to not have to think too hard about it - then I'll add another thing. After a while, you have this assortment of things in your head that you can manage but I know exactly what you mean... initially, it's just too much to remember!
Okay, kick boards are good for one thing. Take your workout or drill sheet on a regular piece of paper to the pool. Take the wet kickboard and "stick" the workout sheet to it. It stays nice and readable through out the practice right at the edge of the pool.
I'll look for some good drills to post.
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Today's mighty oak was once just some nut who held his ground!
Ooohhh, good idea!
This morning I was trying some of the TI basic balance drills-they seemed to go pretty well. EXCEPT-when I'm on my back, I pull left. Bad. Like hitting the lane divider bad. Now I do have some imbalances-my left knee is the worse of the two with my last surgery 12/11/06...could that be it? So....why the drift and how do I fix it?
You're probably pulling far to hard on with your left arm, and pairing that with a powerful kick with your right leg (the stronger, right?). I'd start out swimming slower than usual to get used to the straight line, and then adding strength as you go while still maintaining a straight line. Build strength from there.
E
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"It's what you've got inside that matters. The details and technological things will take you only so far. You still have to pedal the bike. Some people are always looking for the magic secret. There's no secret. Just bust your ass." -Dave Zabriskie
You're probably pulling far to hard on with your left arm, and pairing that with a powerful kick with your right leg (the stronger, right?). I'd start out swimming slower than usual to get used to the straight line, and then adding strength as you go while still maintaining a straight line. Build strength from there.
E
Yes, the right leg is stronger. I am right handed also, which is why I thought it odd that I was pulling left. My problem is that I can't tell if I'm going in a straight line when I'm on my back. (I am fortunate enough to live in Florida and swim outdoors for the most part. Those clouds keep moving and can't help me keep a straight line!! )
I learned to turn my head slightly (again, a body roll but less than freestyle) will allow you to look at the lane ropes and gauge your tracking. I also used to tilt my head straight back to look upside down at the end of the pool (if I was standing, I would be looking straight up). This does cause some drag but I figured it was better than hitting the ropes.
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Today's mighty oak was once just some nut who held his ground!
I learned to turn my head slightly (again, a body roll but less than freestyle) will allow you to look at the lane ropes and gauge your tracking. I also used to tilt my head straight back to look upside down at the end of the pool (if I was standing, I would be looking straight up). This does cause some drag but I figured it was better than hitting the ropes.
Swimming newbie!
) I have a friend who is helping me a bit, although I think I will be mostly on my own for now. Swimming will likely be my main form of cardio henceforth due to some significant knee issues. Until now, I've mostly been doing HIIT 2-3X week with maybe a steady state thrown in too. I'm not really good enough yet to go fast for intervals. Any advice?
), you'll find me as BradMM. I bought the book and the DVD for freestyle swimming and they've helped a lot!
New swimmers and triathletes often ask, “If I’m in such great shape, running and cycling, why can’t I swim one length of the pool without feeling out of breath?” Well, let’s explore that in all its dimensions. Ask yourself: “How many of the factors listed below may be at work in my swimming/drilling right now?” This exercise should help you understand that you’re not out of shape and give you the confidence to “stay the course” with your TI practice, rather than fear that, because drills don’t seem demanding, drill practice may be causing you to “go soft.”
Bob Wiskera lives in the Dallas/Ft. Worth area of North Texas and coaches frequently at TI Workshops. After 25 years of practicing CardioThoracic Surgery as a Physician Assistant, Bob retired to devote himself to coaching age group swimmers and triathletes. "For the past 5 years I have been implementing TI principles in our practices. Each year we get farther away from training energy systems and more into balance and efficiency." he says. "Last summer approximately 75% of our team (ages 5-16) qualified for All-Stars in our league of 1000 swimmers." Contact Bob at 
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