Alex Rodriguez was supposed to be the guy who saved baseball, the way that Mark McGwire did in 1998. He was supposed to ride in and save the home run record from the clutches of suspected steroid user Barry Bonds. He was supposed to be the guy who would show that clean players could be just as prolific as the cheaters.
But that's all changed now, in the aftermath of Saturday's report by SI.com's Selena Roberts and David Epstein that Rodriguez tested positive for steroids in 2003. Rodriguez wouldn't respond to the information in the report, but anything he says really isn't going to change the fact that this will stick to him forever. All McGwire said was that he did not want to talk about the past, and he is essentially persona non grata, and so is Rafael Palmeiro, who wagged a finger at congressmen and insisted that he never used steroids. Roger Clemens is not really wanted at the Astros' spring training home anymore, the way he once was, and he probably will never get in the Hall of Fame, either. Probably, none of them will, including Bonds and Rodriguez. This is a scarlet letter that really will never go away. You can argue reasonably that this scrutiny is unfair, that the context of a positive drug test for A-Rod is lost. The whole sport had done a lousy job, as George Mitchell announced, from the union leaders to management to the clean players themselves. The sport essentially fostered a culture of drug use through its inaction, and many players have said they believe the use of performance-enhancing drugs, especially at the outset of this decade, was rampant. In 2003, the players knew they would be tested for performance-enhancing drugs, and had a pretty good idea of when they would be tested -- and yet presumably, at least 104 barreled ahead and peed into bottles when they knew there was a chance they would be dirty; reportedly, A-Rod was among those. You could call it arrogance, you could call it brazen -- or you could call it typical of the times. A whole lot of players were doing stuff, everybody knew it was going on, and the sport simply hadn't reacted in the way that it should have. Kathy WillensAlex Rodriguez will no longer be looked at as a clean player.
But context really won't save Rodriguez now, because he has the gaudiest numbers on the back of his baseball card, and as we've seen with the steroid fallout, it's the superstars who have the most to lose. Other players have been linked to steroids or human growth hormone and moved on, whether it be Andy Pettitte or Brian Roberts or Eric Gagne or Matt Herges. Record-holders, however, are simply held to a different standard, because they have performed at a different standard. Millions of dollars have been spent on Pettitte and Roberts and Gagne and Herges, in compensation for their play, while millions are being spent in pursuit of Clemens and Bonds, by federal investigators. A couple of years ago, ESPN.com polled a large number of Hall of Fame voters about whom they intended to vote for, and only about 50 percent said they would vote for Sammy Sosa, who has been the subject of steroid speculation for years. There has been evidence of steroid use linked to McGwire, and less than a quarter of the voters put his name on their ballot, a strong indication that he'll never get in the Hall of Fame. Nobody linked to this issue probably will. And now Alex Rodriguez has been linked. If he says nothing and it's all true -- and there's no reason to think that the report is inaccurate -- Rodriguez might have legitimate questions about why the union didn't do a better job on his behalf, questions about how in the heck information that was supposed to be kept confidential got out. If he acknowledges it's all true, it might make his life a little easier; he saw firsthand how Pettitte and Giambi acknowledged their past use and moved on. But either way, whether he says nothing or says a lot, he's tarnished forever. He can blame the union or baseball management; he might blame someone with the federal government for leaking the information. He could rightly wonder how some members of the media could naively put him on that Clean Guy pedestal in 2007; apparently, the lesson was not learned that we can never know for certain who is clean and who isn't. He can blame himself. But no matter whom he blames, Rodriguez will no longer be looked at as the guy who is going to save the home run record from Bonds, who, year by year, is increasingly surrounded by context and doesn't look quite so bad. A-Rod will no longer be looked at in the same way. It might be fair, it might be unfair, but as Brian McNamee would say, it is what it is.
It's a shame that someone who is so talented was still that insecure in himself to resort to this. Makes you wonder how his teammates feel, past and current, feel about this.
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It's a shame that someone who is so talented was still that insecure in himself to resort to this. Makes you wonder how his teammates feel, past and current, feel about this.
Most of them are on something, as well.
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Since most of your life is already complicated, why make your training the same way? Jim Wendler
Anyone who's in any way, shape, or form surprised, shocked, or appalled by this "revelation" (a) needs to get their head out of their ass and (b) check their own hypocrisy.
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If steroids supposedly made ARod great, then what, does he cycle off them every post-season? These magical, superman-creating steroids sure helped a lot in his last three playoffs series! 13 games, batting .159 with one home run.
Say what you will about regular season homerun records. But the steroids don't make something out of nothing.
And how many 'roided setup men and closers does he face? You think Aaron had to face a 98 mph in the 8th and 9th innings? Every single team has a middle-reliever like that now! Wicked curve balls, upper-90's fastballs, 7th, 8th, 9th innings... game one two 162!
It is what it is, indeed. It's baseball, and it's the way it's been. Let's not get too high and mighty here.
If steroids supposedly made ARod great, then what, does he cycle off them every post-season? These magical, superman-creating steroids sure helped a lot in his last three playoffs series! 13 games, batting .159 with one home run.
SAMPLE SIZE
SAMPLE SIZE
Career .279/.361/.483 hitter in the postseason. Yes, his SLG is down considerably from the regular season, but you don't turn down a guy with a .840 OPS in the postseason.
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They have, through the use of steroids, become better performers. They will never, and I mean never, be better athletes. Sound high and mightly. You damned right it does. Everybody does it? Sure. And if I accept that and admire them for it, I too am a fraud.
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They have, through the use of steroids, become better performers. They will never, and I mean never, be better athletes. Sound high and mightly. You damned right it does. Everybody does it? Sure. And if I accept that and admire them for it, I too am a fraud.
I'm not arguing, but I will point out that it's hard to admire these guys for anything except what they do on the field, at least from what I've seen / read.
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Since most of your life is already complicated, why make your training the same way? Jim Wendler
Ninja: The numbers I gave are for the last 3 post-seasons combined. My only point was that if steroids made him superman, then he would NEVER have stats like those of the last 3 seasons.
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Originally Posted by Mahler
They have, through the use of steroids, become better performers. They will never, and I mean never, be better athletes. Sound high and mightly. You damned right it does. Everybody does it? Sure. And if I accept that and admire them for it, I too am a fraud.
Interesting concept behind the "performers" vs. "athletes".
As for admiring them... I agree. Hell, I can't think of many that I admire anymore anyhow, drugs or not.
Ninja: The numbers I gave are for the last 3 post-seasons combined. My only point was that if steroids made him superman, then he would NEVER have stats like those of the last 3 seasons.
Which is what, a maximum of 15 games? Waaaaaaay too small to bank on.
(True, steroids never made him Superman, but if they did, he face a fair share of Supermen himself then, so all things were equal)
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Quoth David Banner: "Like a pimp"
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Ninja: The numbers I gave are for the last 3 post-seasons combined. My only point was that if steroids made him superman, then he would NEVER have stats like those of the last 3 seasons.
Interesting concept behind the "performers" vs. "athletes".
As for admiring them... I agree. Hell, I can't think of many that I admire anymore anyhow, drugs or not.
You can't really believe that even the best hitters in the world can't struggle over the course of a handful of at-bats, can you?
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Since most of your life is already complicated, why make your training the same way? Jim Wendler
You can't really believe that even the best hitters in the world can't struggle over the course of a handful of at-bats, can you?
Of course they do. But those stats weren't a "handful of at-bats" like a mid-season slump. These were playoff at-bats, over three different seasons. That's three years in a row, different years, different pitchers, etc. and each time he flopped.
Point: Steroids don't give you that extra something (nerves, focus, whatever) that lets great players become champions. That's all I'm saying.
Schilling's right, though: announce the entire list of 100+ players that tested positive in 2003. Just hang 'em all: Manny, Roger, Barry, ARod, Pujols, Randy Johnson... anybody who is likely Hall of Fame caliber but who likely took something at some point.
Just ban the national pastime as "hazardous to the health and well-being of America's families" and we'll all wear panties and learn to play soccer. (kidding, guys, kidding!)
If Johnson took--or is even suspected of taking--steroids, then Schilling needs to be in that same breath too.
Probably. I was trying to think of older pitchers who have maintained their endurance and velocity - or even improved, as they got into the mid-30's range. I think Maddux is off the hook... maybe Smoltz?
At least he's not denying. Although I don't think he'll be cut the same slack like Pettitte was.
Yeah, he actually almost did this right. If he hadn't done the 60 minutes thing, today's admission would probably kept him from catching too much crap (I'm not counting the crap he catches anyway for being the best and richest player, he'll always get that).
I'm still waiting for the first guy to say, "Yeah, I did it and I'm sorry. I would have preferred for it to not get out, but now that it is, blah yadda yadda etc. I half way think that reaction would go over pretty well. I mean, that's pretty much what Pettite did and he doesn't get raked over the coals.
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Since most of your life is already complicated, why make your training the same way? Jim Wendler
I'm still waiting for the first guy to say, "Yeah, I did it and I'm sorry. I would have preferred for it to not get out, but now that it is, blah yadda yadda etc. I half way think that reaction would go over pretty well.
You mean Canseco? not likely. He's setting back loving this. Remember he mentioned something about ARod a couple years back?
I guess I just don't follow why a test that was voluntary, confidential and anonymous gets leaked to the media. And why A-Rod is the only name out of the supposed 104 positives. And why now?
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If steroids supposedly made ARod great, then what, does he cycle off them every post-season? These magical, superman-creating steroids sure helped a lot in his last three playoffs series! 13 games, batting .159 with one home run.
Say what you will about regular season homerun records. But the steroids don't make something out of nothing.
And how many 'roided setup men and closers does he face? You think Aaron had to face a 98 mph in the 8th and 9th innings? Every single team has a middle-reliever like that now! Wicked curve balls, upper-90's fastballs, 7th, 8th, 9th innings... game one two 162!
It is what it is, indeed. It's baseball, and it's the way it's been. Let's not get too high and mighty here.
i think you're letting the love you have for the yankees and A-Rod cloud your judgment...
Here's a quote from you on the same subject but w/ Bonds:
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Growing up a Pirates fan, I've been real sad to see all this. The worst part is that he would've made the Hall of Fame even had he stayed clean. His ego just wouldn't let him out of the spotlight in the NOW.
Honestly (not that this excuses anything), I think the guy just isn't very bright.
There are few things more destructive than the actions of someone who is angry AND stupid.
Yet, it's ok since a lot of other people (closers) were juiced?
And it's not about if he used it when he was good already. It still benefits him, whether it's coming back from injury, or getting a quicker swing or reaction. He takes it b/c it helps him.
I get what you're saying about not making them good performers. The steroids DID help him lead his team to the post season though (along w/ everyone else on the team that used). Choking in the post season is all psychological for him... it has nothing to do w/ his talent b/c we all know it's there.
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If you get caught failing a steroid test, you cant be to bright. The basic piss test which is usually given takes very little knowledge to pass (for testosterone its just a ratio against estrogen). Not to mention the 100s of drugs which they havn't even created a test for yet (HGH, igf1, mgf, insulin, etc).
A 5 minute search could have a MLB player in the clear from drug tests, while still substantially improving their preformance. Now i'm sure about 99% of players already know this..
If you get caught failing a steroid test, you cant be to bright. The basic piss test which is usually given takes very little knowledge to pass (for testosterone its just a ratio against estrogen). Not to mention the 100s of drugs which they havn't even created a test for yet (HGH, igf1, mgf, insulin, etc).
A 5 minute search could have a MLB player in the clear from drug tests, while still substantially improving their preformance. Now i'm sure about 99% of players already know this..
All that, and the fact that in 2003 the players knew the test was coming in spring training months ahead of time. All they had to do was cycle off, but some figured 'hey, it's anonymous, so who cares'.
__________________
Since most of your life is already complicated, why make your training the same way? Jim Wendler
You mean Canseco? not likely. He's setting back loving this. Remember he mentioned something about ARod a couple years back?
No, I mean I'm waiting for one of these guys, that would be the first to do so, when busted to say 'yeah, sorry about that'. I guess Pettite pretty much did that, and it furthers my point that he doesn't seem to catch that much heat.
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Since most of your life is already complicated, why make your training the same way? Jim Wendler
I guess I just don't follow why a test that was voluntary, confidential and anonymous gets leaked to the media. And why A-Rod is the only name out of the supposed 104 positives. And why now?
Yeah, all that is def. crap. I'd be pissed if a supposedly anonymous test leaked out with my name on it- but at the same time, had I known it was coming (like they did), there's no way I'd test positive, anonymous or not.
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Since most of your life is already complicated, why make your training the same way? Jim Wendler
Yeah, all that is def. crap. I'd be pissed if a supposedly anonymous test leaked out with my name on it- but at the same time, had I known it was coming (like they did), there's no way I'd test positive, anonymous or not.
I think the key is that some of these guys were taking drugs that stay in your system for a long time.
The specifics are way out of my realm of knowledge or interest, but IIRC some of these drugs stay in your system 9 months, maybe even longer.
So if you've been taking this drug through the offseason, and then all of a sudden learn about a new drug-testing program, even if you stopped that day you might still test positive at any given time throughout the season.
I think that's the main reason the tests were supposed to be anonymous -- otherwise, the union would've demanded at least a full year's warning before agreeing to let the players be tested.
The reason those samples weren't destroyed seems really complicated -- a combination of incompetence and possibly some sinister intentions on the part of somebody in charge of something. (Holding 104 positive drug tests of some of the game's biggest stars would give a person a lot of leverage.)
We know the feds campaigned to get Bonds' drug sample, once they learned of its existence. And maybe at that point nobody wanted to risk going to jail for destroying the rest of the samples.
Now, why A-Rod's name leaked must have an interesting back story. My guess is it had something to do with Joe Torre's new book. Somebody must either like Joe a lot or hate Rodriguez even more.
I think the key is that some of these guys were taking drugs that stay in your system for a long time.
And, that's a very good point- I have no idea how long these would show a positive on the test. Still, there had to be a great number of players that were able to plan accordingly for the 2003 survey.
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Since most of your life is already complicated, why make your training the same way? Jim Wendler
All that, and the fact that in 2003 the players knew the test was coming in spring training months ahead of time. All they had to do was cycle off, but some figured 'hey, it's anonymous, so who cares'.
Quote:
The specifics are way out of my realm of knowledge or interest, but IIRC some of these drugs stay in your system 9 months, maybe even longer.
Quote:
And, that's a very good point- I have no idea how long these would show a positive on the test. Still, there had to be a great number of players that were able to plan accordingly for the 2003 survey.
they didn't even have to cycle off. They could just take a diuretic to mask a lot of the stuff. I'm sure there's a legal diuretic by MLB standards that could mask a lot of the stuff these guys take.
Lots of guys in the NFL do this, and get caught and suspended, but taking diuretics is not the "OMG" factor to the public that steroids are.
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i think you're letting the love you have for the yankees and A-Rod cloud your judgment...
Here's a quote from you on the same subject but w/ Bonds:
Yet, it's ok since a lot of other people (closers) were juiced?
And it's not about if he used it when he was good already. It still benefits him, whether it's coming back from injury, or getting a quicker swing or reaction. He takes it b/c it helps him.
I get what you're saying about not making them good performers. The steroids DID help him lead his team to the post season though (along w/ everyone else on the team that used). Choking in the post season is all psychological for him... it has nothing to do w/ his talent b/c we all know it's there.
Hmm, I don't see the connection between my comment on Bonds and the ones on ARod. Nothing I said contradicts anything else.
I called Bonds stupid, and self-destructive. I'll stick by that. I think it's too bad, because he AND ARod both would've been HOF's even without the steroids and massive numbers. I think they both would've been 600 homer guys anyway. That's why it was stupid. They had a good thing, and they ruined it going after the spotlight.
I'm sad because the whole thing has destroyed them in the public's eye, and will likely keep them out of the HOF.
In my opinion, they should all keep their records. Let fans argue who the "real" homerun king is.
And for what it's worth, I'm not so big a Yankees fan that I'm going to stand up for all of their players. I hate Giambi, ARod is arrogant and Johnny Damon is a sellout. I feel much worse about Clemens going down, and he was on the Sox longer than he was in the Bronx.
Anyway, I lost a lot of respect for the Yanks over the years. It's really hard to pull for a team that keeps spending more and more and more... half a billion dollars for 3 guys?!? It's just not fun like it was in the late 90's.
I really don't think Alex has been destroyed in the public eye. There aren't many people at all that were shocked/dismayed to hear this. People are desensitized to it.
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Quoth David Banner: "Like a pimp"
It's not a beer belly. It's a gas tank for a sex machine.
I guess A-Rod took it in the ass, huh?
(kidding, guys, kidding!)
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