I've been casually keeping an eye on the pitching problems with the Chicago Cubs, and the number and recurrence of specific injuries is a little suspicious: elbows and shoulders that are tired/sore/inflamed or worse. Think of all the promising Cubs pitchers who spend time on the DL or even burnout altogether: Mark Prior, Kerry Wood, Carlos Zambrano (latest casualty), Joe Borowski, Ryan Dempster, Henry Blanco, and most conspicuously, Greg Maddux, who dealt with arm issues during both stints in Chicago but had no apparent problems in Atlanta.
I can't seem to dig up training staff information beyond their pitching coach who's been there since 2000 (after Maddux left the first time), and the front-office staff listing only shows names and positions, not tenure. Fan loyalty and curses and such aside, WTH is going on in the Northside?
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They had a trainer lose his job sometime around the Prior/Wood fiasco seasons of 2004-2005. However, I'm not sure how much of the problem had to do with the trainer. During that time, the club was very vague about injuries, often projecting Prior as missing little time, then pushing it back more and more before admitting the problem was in the shoulder where they'd downplayed it before. I always felt the trainer was a scapegoat.
Now, during that time, Dusty Baker was the manager and I think he rode his starters into the ground. I saw it, some fans commented at that time, not second guessing but first guessing, and Baseball Prospectus listed Wood, Prior, and Zambrano as 3 of the 'most abused' pitchers in 2003-2005 ish in a system that measures pitchers per outing, number of innings, etc. That had to be a factor with Prior and Wood.
Joe Borowski has never been good or had a good arm. He has had stretches where he gets enough guys out on guts, or smoke and mirrors, etc. but he wasn't a young starter to handle with care anyhow. I don't remember Maddux missing time in his return to the Cubs, but if he did he was 40 something years old, so that would play a role more than how he was handled.
Present day- Pinella seems a little more cautious with pitchers and twice has had Zambrano rest with what the player himself was calling just a sore arm. Rich Harden, whom they got in trade from Oakland just a couple months ago already had a history of injuries (or else Oakland wouldn't have traded him!). Hopefully Zambrano will get good news from his MRI today, but he could miss the rest of the season, which would suck.
In summary, I think when Baker was the coach he pitched guys to long and too hard (he already did it this year in Cincinnatti with Aaron Harang). Right now, I can't really pin it on the current coach as he has skipped guys in the rotation when he could, monitered Kerry Wood a lot in the early season, etc.
We'll see. I hope Zambrano gets good news today.
__________________
Since most of your life is already complicated, why make your training the same way? Jim Wendler
They had a trainer lose his job sometime around the Prior/Wood fiasco seasons of 2004-2005. However, I'm not sure how much of the problem had to do with the trainer. During that time, the club was very vague about injuries, often projecting Prior as missing little time, then pushing it back more and more before admitting the problem was in the shoulder where they'd downplayed it before. I always felt the trainer was a scapegoat.
Now, during that time, Dusty Baker was the manager and I think he rode his starters into the ground. I saw it, some fans commented at that time, not second guessing but first guessing, and Baseball Prospectus listed Wood, Prior, and Zambrano as 3 of the 'most abused' pitchers in 2003-2005 ish in a system that measures pitchers per outing, number of innings, etc. That had to be a factor with Prior and Wood.
Joe Borowski has never been good or had a good arm. He has had stretches where he gets enough guys out on guts, or smoke and mirrors, etc. but he wasn't a young starter to handle with care anyhow. I don't remember Maddux missing time in his return to the Cubs, but if he did he was 40 something years old, so that would play a role more than how he was handled.
Present day- Pinella seems a little more cautious with pitchers and twice has had Zambrano rest with what the player himself was calling just a sore arm. Rich Harden, whom they got in trade from Oakland just a couple months ago already had a history of injuries (or else Oakland wouldn't have traded him!). Hopefully Zambrano will get good news from his MRI today, but he could miss the rest of the season, which would suck.
In summary, I think when Baker was the coach he pitched guys to long and too hard (he already did it this year in Cincinnatti with Aaron Harang). Right now, I can't really pin it on the current coach as he has skipped guys in the rotation when he could, monitered Kerry Wood a lot in the early season, etc.
We'll see. I hope Zambrano gets good news today.
good post.
There are lots of pitchers that have arm troubles.
Maddux was in the league 18 years before returning to the cubs. This is pitching 35+ games a year, and getting close to 20 wins each year. Not to mention that he led the NL in innings pitched from 91-93.
Rich Harden has experienced previous arm troubles before joining the cubs
Zambrano has been healthy except for this time, and even now, we don't know if anything's serious.
Borrowski has had arm troubles.
Prior averaged 126 pitches/game one year. Then he had an achilles tendon injury (NOT SHOULDER) that sidelined him the 2004 season. The next year, he was hit by a line drive on the elbow, giving him a stress fracture. The next season, he had stiffness, and then a strained oblique muscle (also, not pitching related). He did have a lot of tendinitis issues with his shoulder though.
I really don't think that it has to do with how the Cubs use their pitchers. They've really babied Wood after his surgery. You look at old time pitchers, and they pitched long pitch counts, and for years.
I think it's just a matter that the cubs are snake bit, and are getting screwed at the wrong time this season. Every pitcher has problems eventually. If you want to talk about a team that doesn't care for their pitchers, look at the yankees and Joba
Chicago news is reporting that Zambrano has swelling in the shoulder and should be back for the end of the season.
Alco- I agree with what you wrote about Prior, but I still think the team was eitehr hiding some shoulder problems during the whole achilles OR him compensating for his achilles caused shoulder problems around that time.
__________________
Since most of your life is already complicated, why make your training the same way? Jim Wendler
That's it in a nutshell. Throwing is a pretty sucky thing to do to your body, and in the end we all finish with the same injuries.
Of course, some of the substances these guys use to dial things up a few notches (Prior was legendary in this regard) may speed up the breakdown process. There's just no way to repeatedly accelerate the arm/hand up to those kinds of speeds, then rapidly decelerate before punching through your leg, without hurting something eventually. It's not a motion we can do half a million times without consequences.
Pay me $100K/game and I'll give it my best, though.
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That's it in a nutshell. Throwing is a pretty sucky thing to do to your body, and in the end we all finish with the same injuries.
Of course, some of the substances these guys use to dial things up a few notches (Prior was legendary in this regard) may speed up the breakdown process. There's just no way to repeatedly accelerate the arm/hand up to those kinds of speeds, then rapidly decelerate before punching through your leg, without hurting something eventually. It's not a motion we can do half a million times without consequences.
Pay me $100K/game and I'll give it my best, though.
When you say 'Prior was legendary' in regards to performance enhancers, do you mean among his peers? The only media questions I ever heard about him were Jack McDowell talking about Tom House (onetime Prior guru) and how he was on the gas and maybe Prior was too.
I mean, I've always wondered if Prior was a 'victim' of steroids, yada yada, but that's not something ESPN, etc. every ran with like they have done with Sosa and a few others who have not tested positive or were not involved with Balco.
__________________
Since most of your life is already complicated, why make your training the same way? Jim Wendler
Yes, among his peers. I've heard some guys in the minors say they wouldn't have tried the kind of cycles he did. Granted it's just hearsay, that's why I said he was "legendary", not "guilty".
The media's just about the last place to get solid information about PED in sports - that's been pretty well proven by now, I think.
__________________ Megaloi -- My Blog
"Every society honors its live conformists and its dead troublemakers."
- Mignon McLaughlin
Yes, among his peers. I've heard some guys in the minors say they wouldn't have tried the kind of cycles he did. Granted it's just hearsay, that's why I said he was "legendary", not "guilty".
The media's just about the last place to get solid information about PED in sports - that's been pretty well proven by now, I think.
Interesting. Like I said, his pitching mentor dabbled in steroids, so it's not like it's a shock.
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Since most of your life is already complicated, why make your training the same way? Jim Wendler
I went to yesterdays game and Lilly looked strong for 6 but Abercrombie came out in the 7 th and cranked a shot at Ramierez that they called an E5, if he didn't have the no hitter going they would have most likely called it a hit. Then Loretta followed up with his clean shot to right.
Even though I am a Cub's fan there is no denying that Houston got the shaft by playing at Wrigley North. It was fine with me because I got to see another game out of it.
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The funny thing about Houston having to play at "Wrigley North" is that their dumbass owner is probably the most at fault. He waited until Saturday to make his decision, hoping (and I understand why) that they could still have the games at Minute Maid Park. What I don't understand is why he wouldn't play it safe, let his players (and their families) get out Thursday night and go to Atlanta or somewhere to play the series.
He wanted the Cubs to fly in Thursday night and hunker down in the storm to try and play Sunday and Monday in Houston when everyone already feared Houston was going to get smashed.
__________________
Since most of your life is already complicated, why make your training the same way? Jim Wendler
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