Part of our race packet for the Vulcan Run 10K included a regional running newspaper, The Running Journal, which had a number of decent columns in it. This is a pretty good running magazine - results from regional races, columns by regional runners and coaches, etc.
One coach had an interesting point about rest intervals when running speed workouts. He pointed out that the trend is to make rest/recovery periods a certain time or distance (I do this), whereas the goal should be recovery and only resting until recovery is reached. A heart rate of 120 bpm is apparently considered a fairly good benchmark for when you are ready to resume the speed segments. He also pointed out that this means your early rest periods will be shorter than later ones, when you are getting tired and it takes your body more time to recover and lower the heart rate. Also, he stated that it's not really necessary to jog or walk during the rest intervals - you just need to allow yourself to recover.
I thought this was a pretty good point, and I plan to try using this strategy during future speed work.
Hey! 120!.. I was usually going down to 122 before going at it again..(I'm a Fartlek Fan, and it just felt right) before I started HIITs. now I try to follow the perscribed timess! seems I do things backwords :/
not running.. on the eliptical) but cardio is cardio.. (i think)
but for the resting.. I really heard that "active resting" was more efficient that stopping.. the example back then was that there were tests in practice that the Canadiens hockey players would recuperate much faster, play better and win more if they put stationnary bikes instead of benchs.!!! of course this sounds crazy from a spectator point of view.
when we X-Country ski.. and someone stops for a drink we stop cold turkey.. so I'm used to it.. but what I do in my Intervals.. if I feel my heart is pounding FASTER when I slow down too much.. I go back up a little.. to tease my heart to slow down.
when you're excersising you're muscles are "pulling" blood into them and you're heart is pushing blood as fast as possible.
if you suddenly stop your muscles are no longer pulling but your heart is still pushing, causing blood to pool here and there creating a sudden but potentially life threatening drop in blood pressure.
I can't imagine completely stopping during rest intervals, but I may walk instead of jogging.
I have always tended toward high blood pressure (although not really anymore - but I did when I was a lardo or semi-lardo), so maybe that sudden life threatening drop would be good for me. [img]tongue.gif[/img]
You can use the "Advanced Workout" feature of the Forerunner to make intervals that use heart rate as an indicator to begin a new interval or rest. Aren't you glad you got the 301 now!
Okay guys, this is a little off topic but not enough to warrant a new thread (IMO):
I wanted to try some HIIT work today. Now I don't like a lot of complicated stuff in my workouts, you know, I run, I ride, I rest. So I measured out a 1/10 of a mile piece of my street (one neighbors driveway to another’s). I run it uphill as fast as I can and then walk back to the start. I did this 5 times this morning and the plan is to slowly add reps not distance until I get up to around 15. I expect to do this twice a week and do my normal hilly 5k 3 times a week slowly adding distance to that run. This is what I want to do until the beginning of next year and then start on a marathon training program.
To keep in line with this thread, Each walk back to the start I do a little slower or rest at the start until my heart rate comes down some. I will probably start adding a heart rate monitor to this work out eventually.
I guess I need to know if this will help with my speed. I am a very slow runner. I do my hilly 5k at just over 9 minute miles and can do a flat 5k at about 8 minute miles. This is way slow I know (I guess I'm really a slow jogger). Any help would be appreciated.
Joe
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the only real information that I've noticed is that the duration of the "interval" has to be at least 30 seconds but no more than 5 minutes...the formar has something to do with adaptation of mitochondrial enzymes. the latter because you're moving into a different realm that defeats the purpose of the whole interval training.
it will deffinately help your run times. I don't know how many is too many, or where the real cut off is on "this amount is as little as you can do while achieving noticible returns".
So what your saying is that I probably need to make it a little longer. I'm sure I'm clearing it in less than 30 seconds. I'll time it next time. I might be able to add half again the distance without adding a really tough short hill on the start.
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Speed training has to exceed 30 second bouts? I would say it depends on exactly what you are trying to get out of the hills, and how steep they are. A lot depends on your strengths and weaknesses. If the rest is kept low(not going to happen if you are waiting for your HR to subside), I don't think this distance is too short. Short intervals with similar work to rest time can be a very efficient protocol. But there is specitivity to think about, fast intervals have more specivity to running fast, time might be better spent closer to race pace for more time. I would probably go with 1 hill interval a week to start with, and maybe 1 interval run 4 minutes work, 2 minutes rest for 20-30 minutes, unless your hilly 5k closly simulates this.
Originally posted by BamaDave: I can't imagine completely stopping during rest intervals, but I may walk instead of jogging.
I, on the other hand, usually walk for about 20s after an interval, but need to stop and catch my breath before starting again. I might do leg lifts or light stretching though.
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"If it felt good, you didn't push hard enough. It's supposed to hurt like hell." - Dean Karnazes' track coach, Ultramarathon Man
"My baby's soft and sweet, somewhere between a flower and a gun" - fiction family
"Sprint training increases the activity of certain glycolytic enzymes and the ability of the muscle fibers to continue exercising despite high levels of acidity, probably because the neutralizing (buffering) capacity of the trained muscle is increased. Mitochondrial enzyme activities remain unchanged if the exercise duration is short but increase when th eexercise duration is 30 seconds.
These longer exercise bouts produce an increase in VO2max, an unexpected response to high-intensity training of short duration but compatible with a resetting of the centreal governor allowing a greater muscle mass to be recruited during maximal exercise."
Mitochondria produce energy from fat. Having more would provide more energy at higher intensitys. So while you might not "need" to go for 30+ second durations, it might be something to ponder.
That looks like a direct quote, what is the context, where is the reffrence? My guess here would be that the rest intervals that they used for the short intervals were with a 2:1 or 3:1 rest:work ratio. Keeping the rest short(similar to the work time), changes things a bit.
I agree that training to increase mitochondrial density and efficency is valuable, but it is not the only training addaptation, and has a limited impact on top end speed. I think direct speed and strength work is good too, espically for someone who I don't think does a lot of strength training(I might be wrong, but I don't think ODB spends a lot of time in the weight room). Notice I suggested only one hill sprint day versus 2, and also a longer interval day, but for ODB I would include one.
I'm not arguing your logic...nor offering a training plan. Simply stating that if you were going to do ONE thing and one thing only and that being sprints...then you might as well stretch it out.
Refference "Lore of Running, pg 165" in context of Glycolytic Pathway Adaptations, referencing MacDougall, Hicks, et al. 1998.
It's thought that ANY increase in performance is a result from a greater ability to recruit muscle mass. However there are practicly no studies to back up that, nor any studies showing how to achieve that. HOWEVER borrowing a page from out weight lifting brothers...high intensity training...shorter sprints (possibly even 50m), or even weight training may very well be an ideal componant of training. So I'm not dissagreeing with you at all...you just put a lot more thought into program development than I did. [img]smile.gif[/img]
So in a perfect world...in my mind...training would look something like this.
1 day Super High intensity sprints (50-100m) x 8
1 day 2mile run...covering the distance
1 day 300-400m sprints x 4
1 day tempo run 5k
of course no one asked for my perfect world...too damn early for thinking like this.
Or too late here in the US, on the east coast; of course Mahler might already be up and working out. I think we have very similar thoughts about this topic. I am just trying to get some ideas out there and pull some ideas from others as well, maybe being a bit challenging, but my intention is good. There isn't a whole lot of traffic here in the outdoor forums.
Figured we were closer than it might appear. That's why I wanted to point out that I wasn't dissagreing with what you were saying, but trying to explain what I was saying. [img]smile.gif[/img]
So far with what I've read\seen about weight training and even cardio training there are two consistant facts. There are thousands of ways to get where you want to go and we really don't "know" a whole hell of a lot.
We might "know" how something works...but not why it works that way...or how to influence it...ect. So far I'm buying into the "central governor" theory (greater portion of performance is neurally based). It seems consistant accross the board reguardless of sport...which I'll admit is a personal bias of mine anyway
ODB, do you have a squat and lunge routine? For me, incorporating a routine of squats and lunges in my workouts had an immediate impact of improvement in all phases of my running, especially hills and intervals.
I used to do a lot of squats and lunges as part of my swimming. I have never had a problem with leg strength. (In high school I was the sikinny little kid that couldn't do anything with my upper body but I could lift the rack on the universal with my legs). I'm also known as the mountain goat among my mountain biking friends. I tend to power up the hills. I'm afraid that a lot of my problem is technique. I am very tuned to this as a swimmer when I see people much stronger than me fall way behind just because of technique.
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ODB said :
1 day Super High intensity sprints (50-100m) x 8
I think I read somewhere that you base your rests on HR .. that's good.. but I just want to say that What I learned is that for sprints.. the rest time is 6 times the sprint time..
(When I learned this.. Ben Johnson was the big guy.. and to know that he was resting 60 seconds for every 10 seconds he ran made us so jealous!! LOL gosh how I hated running.. was so slow at it... probably still am.. but I'd love to be able to go out and run.)
GOBBLA said :
the only real information that I've noticed is that the duration of the "interval" has to be at least 30 seconds
I don't understand that one.. is it for specific situations? My xc-training URL says to do 4 kinds of HIITs.. including 15-90 secs.. and 100 meter sprinters practice 10-60 secs sprints..
Are you talking specifically about 10k runs? then I understand that they don't need < 30 secs intervals. xc-skiing needs "sprint-training " to go up hills sometimes..
"Sprint training increases the activity of certain glycolytic enzymes and the ability of the muscle fibers to continue exercising despite high levels of acidity, probably because the neutralizing (buffering) capacity of the trained muscle is increased. Mitochondrial enzyme activities remain unchanged if the exercise duration is short but increase when the exercise duration is 30 seconds.
Like you and Buk say, you don't HAVE to do it for 30+ seconds. There's gains to be made across the board with various methods. The 30+ second sprint for mitochondrial enzyme adaptation was\is the only pertinent "we have reason to believe this happens here" information that I'm currently aware of.
Just something to be aware of when considering the minimum work required to be able to maintain higher higher speeds.
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