Adventures in "Barefoot" running (long) - JP Fitness Forums

UpNorth · 05-01-2007, 04:54 PM

Now that I've surpassed the 200 mile mark training in my "minimalist" shoes, I thought I'd post up a review of my experiences in the switch from a traditional heel-toe running style in a traditional running shoe (Brooks Adrenaline) to a forefoot running style and minimalist shoe (Puma H Street). I won't bore you with my complete running history which is riddled with chronic injustries to my ankles, ITB, lower back and hips, but feel the need to briefly mention it because it precipitated my shift in style.

The official start of my running style change came last summer. I was busy training for a marathon, but given my history of injuries I took a concervative approach and was only running once a week. Despite that I still felt an ITB issue creeping up in my left leg. Fortunately, since I was only running once a week, by the time a week had passed and I needed to run again, my knee felt better from the previous run. However, knowing that my miles were going to steadily increase I knew I needed to do something proactive. I read a lot of stuff about injury prevention and running mechanics but the information about POSE really caught my attention.

I became an avid reader of everything I could find (for free

) on the POSE method of running. After reading about it, watching some videos and getting pointers from the forums on their site I attempted to shift my form. When my marathon training was all said and done I did manage to complete it injury free and this may have helped but knowing what I know now it was probably not worth the effort. It is very difficult to run either mid-foot or fore-foot with a huge wedge under your heel.

After the marathon I took well earned rest but by last December, I started to feel the itch to start running again. This time however I did not want to do it in the restrictive way I had trained for the marathon. I just wanted to run without worrying about icing my knee (which I did after every run) and about giving myself time to recover as well as fretting over the long term damage I was inflicting upon myself. I decided that I would have to make a choice: Give up running, make an appointment with an ortho, or try the forefoot running style -- shoes and all. I decided I would give the forefoot running an honest try first, then, if it didn't work, decide what to do next.

The first thing I knew I needed to do was to get a new pair of shoes. To find a "good" shoe I went to the POSE site and looked through their list of recommended shoes. The top favorite at the time was the Puma H Street. Calling this a shoe is really an overstatement. It consists of a very light mesh upper with no stiffness/support at the heel (or anywhere else for that matter) and a VERY thin sole. The sole of the shoe is about 1/8" thick at the ball of the foot and rises only to about 1/4" at the heel. We're talking flat. There is no arch support, no cushioning, nothing. It is very flexible and incredibly light. Surprisingly however, it does provide adequate protection from pebbles and such -- I've run on some gravel roads without issue.

My first runs in these shoes were very short (about a mile) and very awkward. Running in these shoes really force you to focus on your running gait. Any flaw in your technique is immediately noticeable. Early in my experience with these shoes I noticed that when I got tired I started to roll to the outside of my left foot (most likely the cause of my ITB problems). In all of the miles in my Brooks Adrenalines, even though I always paid careful attention to my form, I never noticed this. My bet is that the motion control shoes compensated for my weakness and this, I now believe, is the true evil nature of running shoes. No one on this forum advocates using the Smith machine, right? Why? Because it forces you into a bio-mechanically awkward motion. I believe running shoes do the same thing.

The ramp up with these shoes was slow for me. My calves hurt at first, I couldn't keep my form and I just couldn't go the same distance and speed that I had previously. However, after roughly 200 miles I feel well adapted to these shoes and the new running style but it has taken me months to get there. The "roll to the outside" has been fixed and I'm also landing much softer on the ball of my foot (I can barely hear my foot falls) but, most importantly, I have no joint pain whatsoever. Needless to say I really like the changes that I've made and as a bonus I feel like my gait is more efficient and my feet and ankles are stronger than ever.

Even though I've had great success (so far, knocking on wood), I'm hesitant to recommend these shoes and running style to others. It has taken some hard work and a concerted effort to change and in the end I'm not sure I'm running faster than I would have otherwise. The Chi and POSE advocates will go on and on about efficiency and speed once the change has been made but frankly I'm skeptical of that claim. I can say however that I truly believe that I can now run for the rest of my life without the injuries that plagued me before and I believe that in the same way you benefit from lifting barefoot you'll benefit from running barefoot as well.

Jeff

P.S. One other quick note: Since so many people on this board, and in the fitness community in general, are buying the Frees I feel the need to add why I didn't go with them. The POSE folks critque the Frees as having too much arch support and too big a wedge. Personally, I have no idea, I've never tried them, but that is why I haven't.

BamaDave · 05-01-2007, 08:51 PM

Jeff,

Thanks for posting this. I've seen many people on the Letsrun forum mention the H Streets, and I have seen the same criticisms of the Frees for not being nearly as "barefoot," especially due to the inserts and the raised heel. Sounds like this running style and minimalist shoe approach is working out really well for you. Are you sure about the speed - it seems like you have been getting faster and faster in your training runs and speedwork.

With my own trial of the Frees, I have noted some "different" aches and pains - a little bit of achilles pain on one side (quickly disappearing, though) and a little pain associated with one toe. I briefly had some minor pain under one arch. I've also noted some shin pain on the left leg where I had the ITB problem, but nothing dramatic and it has been less notable with each run. In general, I feel better after runs with the Frees than I have in the past with more beefed up shoes. The difference is especially notable with longer runs, although my max distance so far in the Frees is 14.3 miles.

LisaS · 05-01-2007, 09:20 PM

i'm curious as to the adjustment process for the forefoot/POSE running rather than the shoe - how did that go? Do you have any insights for the particular switch? You said you watched videos - did you buy any of the POSE training stuff? Would you recommend any? Are you using a blend of the POSE and the Chi approaches? (Chi is the one with the rhythm/cadence emphasis/mindful running, right?)

UpNorth · 05-02-2007, 07:06 AM

Dave -- I'm not sure about the speed, and you're right, I have been making improvements but towards the end of my marathon training I comfortably ran 8 miles at an 8 minute/mile pace. It took me a long time to get back to that pace for just 5 miles. I can't however solely blame the shoes as I've packed on significant weight as well but I believe the shoes and the change in form have made running more difficult. Would I be faster if I didn't have to change my form to accommodate the flat shoes? Certainly, but for me I couldn't have one without the other. In the end though, it is really just my guess and I could be wrong.

Lisa -- The adjustment process was slow and took considerable focus during my runs to keep the proper form. The running style feels natural now, but it definately did not when I started. As I mentioned, I started to shift my form last summer and into the fall, but without a flat shoe I think it was much more difficult than if I had got the Pumas from the start. Once I did have them the process was much quicker, but I'm not sure how long it would have taken me to convert having done it "right" from the start.

Your question seems to want me to separate the running form from the shoes but I can't do that. The shoes not only make the forefoot form easier to acheive it forces you to do so -- I'd thrash my knees pretty quickly going heel-toe without any cushioning.

Finally, I have not yet purchased any POSE materials. The POSE website has videos, articles and forums which provide a ton of basic information. I still may purchase something from them but I'm turned off by their fanaticism about achieving the perfect technique. It is almost cultish, and while it is a fine goal to get the perfect form, I just want to run injury free. Also, for other sources of information, you can get a free ebook from Gordon Pirie (just Google it) and find articles about Chi Running as well.

As far as insights go I would only offer that you read everything you can and expect to take it very slowly and take a number of steps back in your ability (at least for the short term). If you're training to compete for something then don't try it. When you've got no races in sight, that is the time to do it.

UpNorth · 05-02-2007, 07:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BamaDave

The difference is especially notable with longer runs, although my max distance so far in the Frees is 14.3 miles.

I have to add that this cracks me up. You make it seem like a 14 mile run is some little jaunt. To most of us that is a LONG run.

BamaDave · 05-02-2007, 09:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UpNorth

I have to add that this cracks me up. You make it seem like a 14 mile run is some little jaunt. To most of us that is a LONG run.

LOL! Well, I was thinking more in terms of how I have generally felt following long runs in my area in the past. There's been a pretty big difference for me in recovery from 14-15 milers versus just going a little bit farther up to 17, 18, 19, etc. In the past, I could usually still be fairly functional after 14-15 on a Sunday. but 17 or more usually had me pretty zonked out, stiff, etc. So I haven't yet tested the Frees on one of those types of runs. I may not until Fall, since I rarely run more than 13 or 14 once hot weather arrives.

LisaS · 05-02-2007, 11:18 AM

well, I don't run at all right now - other than some HIIT sprinting indoors - I have no expectation of anything other than beginner-ness so I was thinking I should get flat(ter) shoes and go POSE style from the get-go.

finboy · 05-02-2007, 01:52 PM

Thanks for the excellent post, Jeff. I don't think I'm as serious of a runner as either you or Dave, but I'm curious about this style nonetheless. About 2-3 years ago, I was fitted for orthotics and use them in a Brooks shoe (forgot which one). My plantar fasciitis went away, but I still have some knee, groin, and back issues that flare up if I try to increase my mileage much. I've been starting to think that I may have to give up running. You know, too many aches and pains for a guy 'my age' (nearly 49). That's mainly my wife talking.

Your talk of pain-free running is getting me all excited!

Thanks again,
Scott

BamaDave · 05-02-2007, 03:32 PM

I had no idea you were 49, Scott. I thought you were a 20-somethin'.

BamaDave · 05-02-2007, 03:40 PM

The POSE website is really extensive. I had no idea. I'll certainly spend some time there. I hope it doesn't tempt me to buy more shoes.

finboy · 05-02-2007, 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BamaDave

I had no idea you were 49, Scott. I thought you were a 20-somethin'.

Ha! Techically, I'm still 48. I just ACT 20-somethin'.

BamaDave · 05-02-2007, 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by finboy

Ha! Techically, I'm still 48. I just ACT 20-somethin'.

Hey, why not?!?!

Now I have no idea why I thought you were in your 20's instead of in the elite 40-something JPF group.

UpNorth · 05-02-2007, 06:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LisaS

well, I don't run at all right now - other than some HIIT sprinting indoors - I have no expectation of anything other than beginner-ness so I was thinking I should get flat(ter) shoes and go POSE style from the get-go.

I would definately go ahead and get some flat shoes then. If it doesn't work out for the running at least you will have great shoes for lifting in.

UpNorth · 05-02-2007, 06:48 PM

Thanks Scott. I hope my post give you the hope that you can continue running!

Kevin Littler · 05-03-2007, 03:23 AM

Thanks for the great post Jeff. I have the POSE DVD and the EvolutionRunning DVD, which have similar approaches to biomechanics. I changed my biomechanics at the end of '04 with great results from an injury-management perspective. I had a problematic hamstring that prevented me from running for a few months. During november my training log indicated I was still getting pain. By February I was running 90+ minutes again (pain-free), and it held up for the IM training for the rest of the year.

I am noticing now though, some annoying pain in the joint where the big toe joins the foot (the 1st metatarsophalangeal joint for those anatomy geeks) over the last month, probably from the forefoot landing. But then, I am 4-7kgs heavier than I was in '05.

I never noticed a difference in speed, but I did notice an improvement in efficiency i.e. my long slow distance pace felt easier than ever, but not really faster. But when I increased my speed slightly my form must have changed enough to lose that efficiency as it was associated with a marked increase in perceived effort.

All my running has been in your average shoes (usually Asics 1000 or 2000 series). I need some new shoes though, so might look at experimenting.

UpNorth · 05-03-2007, 06:58 AM

Kevin -- Would you recommend I get one or the other DVD? Sometimes I feel like I'm short-changing my training by only seeking the free information.

It's encouraging that you've found success with this over the past couple of years but I do wonder about the toe. It does seem like that area of the foot is a good candidate for an overuse-type injury with this style of running. However, I wonder if you had a shorter heel on your shoe would it allow you to put less pressure on your toes. With less wedge at the heel you'd be able to get your heel lower while still keeping it off the ground, straightening out your foot. I mention this only because I had a lot more trouble landing forefoot with the wedge at my heel. The best I could ever acheive consistently was a mid-foot strike.