I'm a terrible trail runner... - JP Fitness Forums

emartin10 · 08-30-2006, 04:11 PM

I can run forever on pavement, but get me going up a trail, and I might as well be a fat, chain smoker. I don't know what makes me so bad. Any advice? Do you guys run trails differently than you do pavement? I'm really at a loss here...Thanks!

E

Buk · 08-30-2006, 04:52 PM

What is the problem. Do you tire easier, unsure of your footing, looking where each step hits the ground, stride length variations? How much of a trail does it have to be to have a negative impact. I love trails so much more than pavement.

sassyangelac · 08-30-2006, 04:58 PM

I find the opposite to be true for me, but I discovered it completely by accident. The first time I stepped off the pavement onto a trail, I became an entirely different runner. I just seem to come alive on the trail, as opposed the back-of-the-pack struggles of road running. On the trail, I eat hills that normally slow me to a walk on the road, and the scrambling over obstacles is thrilling. I think it has something to do with the constantly changing terrain and pace; it's invigorating. I can go much longer and faster on a trail, and even on the many times I've fallen, gotten lost, scared out of my wits by some woodland critter, or overtaken by moutainbikers or horseback riders, I've enjoyed it immeasurably more than road running.

BamaDave · 08-30-2006, 05:01 PM

Eric, what do you mean, exactly? Are you just concerned about your pace?

I haven't done a lot of trail running, even though if I could, I would completely drop road running and exclusively run trails. I think they're way more challenging (obviously), and it seems to be more of whole body workout with all of the switchbacks, having to jump over stuff, etc. But this is coming from someone who has only run one race that was entirely a trail run and sprained my ankle while doing it!

So far, my running pace has always been substantially slower on trails versus the road. But that's just inevitable, since roads don't have tree roots, big holes, etc. And it does require more focus on the ground and being cautious at times.

Another minor factor may be bounce from road surface. I often run a route in my area that takes me down asphalt roads and then a dirt road that is somewhat gravelly. My pace almost instantly slows down by 10-15 sec/mile as soon as I hit the dirt road and then jumps right back up when I'm on asphalt. I think it may have to do with getting more bounce off the asphalt surface.

ODB · 08-30-2006, 05:59 PM

I'm with Sass. I love trail running. It stimulates me for some reason. I may actually be faster. I've always been pretty sure-footed too.

Lost Dog · 08-30-2006, 06:16 PM

Trail running is much more tiring for me, but I think it's because of the need to concentrate so much.

One time I bit the dust (scrapes and bruises and blood) trying not to step on a rabbit. Only it wasn't a rabbit, it was a rock. I was tired... My kids make fun of me, to this day.

BamaDave · 08-30-2006, 07:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lost_Dog

One time I bit the dust (scrapes and bruises and blood) trying not to step on a rabbit. Only it wasn't a rabbit, it was a rock. I was tired... My kids make fun of me, to this day.

No offense, but you appear to have some vision issues in your latest avatar. Maybe you should get that checked out!

RobertT · 08-31-2006, 07:39 AM

emartin10: I think what you're experiencing is perfectly normal. Now, I don't know you, but I read your summary of a tri you recently did. Obviously you did plenty of bike training to compete in that tri, and I'd bet it was primarily road work (a typical tri would suggest that). But even with all that road work, I'll bet if you hopped on a mountain bike and tried to scoot up and down some simple trails, you'd feel the same way as you do about running on those trails.

In my opinion it's simply because they're similar activities performed differently. When you run on the road, you pay attention to pace, distance, maybe time, and just as likely your iPod. But when you hit the trail, that attention is now focused on footing, balance, bumps, hills (big and small), high grass, roots, trees, branches and who-knows-what else. All those things take energy in some form, some because they require muscle compensation (footing and balance) and some simply because you can't relax and just run (like worrying about balance).

You're an experienced runner; when was the last time you really thought about balance when you were running on the road? Or even breathing, the rhythm of which can be interrupted by the challenges running a trail presents.

Of course there are similar aspects to trail biking versus road biking.

All of which combine to (in my opinion) assure you that you're certainly not a 'fat, chain smoker'. You're just a guy doing a 'new' exercise, even though it sure looks an awful lot like the exercise you're all ready pretty good at.

From a personal standpoint, with all the running I've done and do, I make it a point to hit the forest preserve trail that's just up the road about once every two weeks. Even during mary training I'll substitute a hard trail run for a tempo run because I think it presents different challenges to the bod and the mind. It's also simply a nice change of scenery. The same is true (for me) with regard to biking.

So I'd suggest you begin including some trail work in your regular routine. They're almost like a whole-body workout, they're fun, challenging, different, and, if you do them often enough, I think they're a real benefit to overall fitness.

emartin10 · 08-31-2006, 10:35 AM

Thanks guys, that is a lot of great information. Craig - I think the main problem is that I tire VERY quickly. Granted, I'm running up a ski mountain, but I've run hills like that before on pavement. I think it's a combination of balance, core, and breathing. I shorten my stride when I'm going up hills, and obviously lengthen it a bit coming down. I plan on adding a lot of trail work to my weekly schedule, right now, probaby 2 days or more a week. It's fun, even though I'm dying.

Robert - thanks for the input. That was a great post. Only thing is, I'm pretty good on my mountain bike, that's why I'm at such a loss here. It's just new terrain, right? I think you're on about being focused on different things. I've hooked up with the local trail running group, and hopefully some of those guys and gals can fix whatever I'm doing wrong too. I'm heading out for a run right now, we'll see if it feels better than yesterday!

E

emartin10 · 08-31-2006, 08:58 PM

Today was a bit better. I made it further up the mountain, and stopped a bit less. I felt much better. I think I was leaning too far forward on the uphill, and too far backwards on the downhills. So I tweaked my posture a bit, and focused on my breathing. Much better. Now it's just an endurance thing, and running up a mountain at 10,000 feet (training my lungs). I've got a potential offer from Smartwool to model some trail running gear next week, and they'd pay me in product, so I'm trying to get a bit better on the trails. Hopefully it goes well.

Thanks for all your feedback guys!

E

ODB · 09-01-2006, 07:08 AM

Modeling jobs? Cool!

BamaDave · 09-01-2006, 11:36 AM

I want a modeling deal like that!

Oh wait - I'm about to turn 40 and am hair challenged.

Wow, you're running at 10,000 feet?! I would say that could definitely cause a slowdown. I want to live where you live - sounds like heaven!

GG300 · 09-01-2006, 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BamaDave

I want a modeling deal like that!

Oh wait - I'm about to turn 40 and am hair challenged.

Wow, you're running at 10,000 feet?! I would say that could definitely cause a slowdown. I want to live where you live - sounds like heaven!

Less wind resistance!

emartin10 · 09-01-2006, 12:57 PM

It's great. I come down to sea level and gain a bit advantage. There is a 10K at 10,000 this weekend, that I might run. Should be a good race. I'm getting better out there, had another good run this morning. Slowly but surely.

E

ODB · 09-02-2006, 02:10 PM

This morning I went running down by the river. It is a very flat course unlike what I usually run. I did the same distance though, 5K, thinking that I would be a little faster than normal because it was flat. WRONG!!! It hurt in new places and my time was no better. This got me thinking more about Eric's predicament.

Obviously, I use different muscles running hills than I do on flats. I've got hill muscles. I also noticed that I tend to run with my head down more. It's a habit maybe started when trail running since you have to watch where you put your foot.

Conclusion, you use different muscles on hills and when trail running and your posture seems to be a bit different. Just a guess.

BamaDave · 09-02-2006, 03:49 PM

Were you on the Arkansas River Trail? Did they open that bridge over the river, yet - I couldn't believe that! That would be so cool to run over.

I've heard other people say the same thing about hill vs. flat running. I speed up in flat places versus my hilly training area, although I find pancake flat running to be really monotonous. I think my optimal terrain for a race might be on rolling terrain with hills less steep than where I normally run. My 1/2-M and Mar. PR's were both on that type of course, although I haven't run a race yet in a flat location.

ODB · 09-02-2006, 08:38 PM

OSBSgirl says- the concentration combined with the change in posture and therefore gait and pace will most certainly affect you if you are not used to running trails. Think of it like training for a transition between TRI events...you have to actively THINK about switching gears - n'est ce pas? Yeah E...I bet you're tearing those trails up you monster. I ran with Joe on the flat trail this morning. It's easily 1/2 mile shorter than my to work jog and nowhere even close on the hill issue but I was in PAIN by the time I finished. And was SLOW even for me and I'm a slowbutt to begin with. Frustrating but after discussing the whole posture issue with ODB I plan to work on that between now and the next 5K I have planned since it will be a flat course.

emartin10 · 09-05-2006, 08:24 AM

That's where I think my problem is/was. I've been running a bit more on the trails the last few days, and really really focused on my posture and breathing, and it's been much much better. I think you're dead on Lisa, it's amazing how hard it is just when you change the surface. Hmmm...

E