I've been NSCA-CPT certified since 2005 and have often thought about the CSCS credential. I had always vaguely knew that there was some kind of bachelor's degree requirement to register for the exam, but after reading about it on the website, I'm pretty disillusioned. See, I'm just about to graduate with an AS as a Physical Therapist Assistant and should soon be licensed. NSCA require a bachelor's degree to sit for the CSCS exam but it doesn't matter what the hell it's in. But apparently an AS in a Health Profession isn't good enough. Someone who's never taken A&P I but can recite Act II of Hamlet can sit for the CSCS exam. Does this make any sense? Nothing against English majors or otherwise, I'm sure there are many fitness enthusiasts and professional out there with diverse interests, but do you get what I'm saying? Is anyone as bothered by this as me? Does anyone care?
Its because an Associates degree doesn't hold any more weight collegiately, like it did..say 10-15 years ago. And honestly, when I obtained my 4-year degree (bachelors), there was talk that a BS or BA was actually losing "weight" against a 6 year degree (masters).
The NSCA upholds its integrity by requiring those to hold a "minimum" of a bachelors degree (and I believe, so does NASM). It doesn't have to be a exercise-related course, because the certification course will teach you the A& P stuff. However, it does have to prove that you have completed some sort of undergraduate matriculation (4 years).
I know it sounds bogus, but I think it is a step towards opening the course to those that have already obtained BS degrees years ago.
Sorry, but how does an associate's degree not hold any weight when, in order to become licensed as a PTA, I need to have graduated from and accredited PTA program (which is an associate's degree)? Does being a Physical Therapist Assistant not hold any weight in society? Some other Health Professions which require associates degrees: nurses, respiratory therapists, occupational therapist assistants, radiologic technicians, among others. What about them?
No, I don't believe that just studying for and taking the CSCS exam will teach you the A&P stuff. A&P is pretty damn hard. That's why it's a two semester course. And many people don't get through it. And that's why it's part of the curriculum of all health professions, because they want you to actually know that stuff.
So as a PTA, I can legally carry out interventions on patients for the purpose of musculoskeletal, cardiopulmonary, neuromuscular, and integumentary rehabilitation, but as far as the NSCA and maybe NASM is concerned, I can't be a CSCS. Sounds weird doesn't it?
Wouldn't you agree that, all other things being equal, a PTA should have more knowledge of the human body and how it works than someone with say, a business degree? Last time I checked, Kinesiology wasn't a requirement of a business degree.
It is bogus.
NASM only has that requirement for the PES if you don't already hold the NASM CPT. Once you have the NASM CPT, which wasn't too tough to get, then you are eligible for the PES and CES. But if you go for the PES without the CPT your degree does have to be in a related field. From the website:
PES (CES, too) candidates must have:
A current NASM-CPT certification, or
REPs Level 3 or higher credential (candidates outside of the US only), or
4-year collegiate degree in related field
I never really understood why you could have any bachelors for the CSCS. Although, it works out in my favor since I have my BS and not in a related field, but it never really made sense except to just make sure those who hold it have a more thorough general education and are more well rounded overall. Anyway, you've got your associates, you are only a couple of years away from your bachelors. And it is true that an associates degree isn't worth much, and bachelor's is pretty much considered minimum level education for a lot of professions. I didn't even bother picking up my AS on the way to my BS because it seemed like a waste of time.
Did everyone miss what I said? To sit for the Physical Therapist Assistant licensing exam you need to have graduated from an accredited AS PTA program. It's an associates degree. You don't need a bachelor's. Someone with just any old bachelor's can't sit for that exam. Now that's exclusion that I can get behind. And if you don't think that a PTA degree is worth much, then you need to do a little more research. It's a clinical associates, not just liberal arts or whatever. It's probably more demanding than any other associate's out there. And as for as being more well rounded, how are all those extra gen ed credits going to help you in PT or fitness? They're not. They're just more money for the school. Okay, I suppose if you start your own business then some business classes might come in handy. But don't we all know plenty of people who have their own successful businesses who've never even been to college?
PTA203 Neurology for Physical Therapist Assistant 2
PTA204/205 Kinesiology 2 Lab / Kinesiology 2 2
PTA112 Physical Therapist Assistant Practicum 1 2
CMP104-150 Composition 2 Elective 3
HUM-ELECTIVE Humanities Elective(s) 3
PSY138 Psychology of Disability 3
PTA212/213 Therapeutic Exercise 2 Lab / Ther Ex 2 3
PTA214/215 Kinesiology 3 Lab / Kinesiology 3 2
PTA220 Current Topics in Physical Therapy 3
PTA206 Physical Therapist Assistant Seminar 1
PTA208 Physical Therapist Assistant Practicum 2 8
PTA210 Case Studies in Physical Therapy 3
Program Information
• Entrance into any Physical Therapist Assistant course requires a grade of 'C' (73%) or better in all PTA prerequisite courses. For graduation from the Physical Therapist Assistant program a grade of 'C' (73%) or better is required for all Physical Therapist Assistant courses.
Admissions Information
• An overall high school grade average of 'C' or better or a college CQPA of 2.0 or better are required for admission to this program.
• Admission to this program is selective and occurs only in the Fall semester.
Earnings [About this section] Back to Top
Median annual earnings of physical therapist assistants were $41,360 in May 2006. The middle 50 percent earned between $33,840 and $49,010. The lowest 10 percent earned less than $26,190, and the highest 10 percent earned more than $57,220. Median annual earnings in the industries employing the largest numbers of physical therapist assistants in May 2006 were:
Home health care services $46,390
Nursing care facilities 44,460
Offices of physical, occupational and speech therapists, and audiologists 40,780
General medical and surgical hospitals 40,670
Offices of physicians 39,290
...but I can't sit for the CSCS exam. Makes perfect sense!
The NSCA is not some automated internet certification or whatever.
I can almost guarantee, if you called them and talked to them about it, they would allow you to sit for the CSCS if you submitted a written petition or something to that effect explaining your background and expertise.
Did I imply that the NSCA is some automated internet certification or whatever. How did you come to that conclusion?
Anyway, I have already contacted them about this and am awaiting their reply.
Did I mention I've been NSCA-CPT certified since 2005? Could've sworn I did.
CSCS is marketed as being aimed for the training of atheletes as a strength and conditioning professional - and I would venture a guess to say especially college and professional athletes. I don't think requiring a BA/BS in addition to exibiting the specific knowledges is unreasonable. It is their certification and they can require what they want.
Their CPT program (as you know) is aimed at those that want to work with the general population for strength training and working with that population who might have other medical conditions that need to be considered in their workouts.
/devil's advocate
sounds like your beef is with NSCA - so good that you are taking it to them.
Why do you think people here are belittling you? You asked "why does NSCA require BS/BA for CSCS" - if people answer by trying to explain the NSCA side of things it doesn't mean that a) they agree with that position or b) think you are undeserving somehow. It means they are trying to answer your question. No one here is fighting with you or asking you to prove why you should sit for CSCS.
I'm not sure when I said that I think that people here are belittling me. If that's what you got out of this, that wasn't what I meant. I'm just arguing my point. It's not enough for me to just get a couple of replies that I don't agree with and be done with it. Otherwise, I wouldn't have posted this thread in the first place. It's a big deal to me.
In fact, LisaS, I never did pose the question "why does NSCA require BS/BA for CSCS?"
I basically said that I thought that it was ridiculous that they require a bachelor's in whatever you choose but a PTA degree was unacceptable. Then I asked if anyone agreed. Or cared.
Sounds like you are proud of what you can earn so go do it. Or go get a bachelors. Or wait for an answer from the NSCA.
Either way nobody wants to hear nor cares about your whining.
__________________
Working "hard," or the perception of working hard, doesn't really mean anything. Sweating, vomiting, and breathing hard could be a good workout or a tropical disease kicking in.-Dan John
The NSCA is not some automated internet certification or whatever.
I can almost guarantee, if you called them and talked to them about it, they would allow you to sit for the CSCS if you submitted a written petition or something to that effect explaining your background and expertise.
NSCA Phone +1 719-632-6722
Won't work. I have more than enough hours for a degree but never finished my degree. I have been certified as a trainer and a biomechanics analyst, and I have trained trainers for years after having a pretty long and relatively successful career as a trainer. I organized educational events that provided CEUs for CSCS's. I petitioned HARD.No dice.
I do understand your frustration, but I also understand their perspective, even though it prevented me from sitting for the exam. It's not about your background. A related degree will only make it easier for you to pass the test. It's about having a minimum standard and they don't compromise. At first it pissed me off but now I have respect for their requirement.
Sorry it chapped you. As someone earlier in the thread suggested, you are so close... You might as well just finish your degree. Good luck.
So you have to pass the test, and a related degree will only make it easier. Isn't that a good thing? What is it really anyway, a certification for people who got their bachelor's in some unrelated field, couldn't get a job so decided to get into this? Makes no sense. Is it just the NSCA's way of trying to make themselves seem more prestigious? I can understand requiring a bachelor's in a related field, but not in just anything. I can see how I might be up against a lot of bias here because I'm sure there are plenty of CSCSs who got their certifications under these circumstances. None of those people would want to hear what I've got to say here. Everyone will just happily bow down to the NSCA's word, whatever it may be. Anyway, it's my issue, nothing anyone has said here has made me change my opinion (let alone made much sense), and I'll just keep arguing my point.
Keep arguing elsewhere if you wish. Somebody somewhere might give a shit.
__________________
Working "hard," or the perception of working hard, doesn't really mean anything. Sweating, vomiting, and breathing hard could be a good workout or a tropical disease kicking in.-Dan John
So you have to pass the test, and a related degree will only make it easier. Isn't that a good thing? What is it really anyway, a certification for people who got their bachelor's in some unrelated field, couldn't get a job so decided to get into this? Makes no sense. Is it just the NSCA's way of trying to make themselves seem more prestigious? I can understand requiring a bachelor's in a related field, but not in just anything. I can see how I might be up against a lot of bias here because I'm sure there are plenty of CSCSs who got their certifications under these circumstances. None of those people would want to hear what I've got to say here. Everyone will just happily bow down to the NSCA's word, whatever it may be. Anyway, it's my issue, nothing anyone has said here has made me change my opinion (let alone made much sense), and I'll just keep arguing my point.
You're missing the point. They decided that they would have a minimum standard, which would weed out people who didn't have a 4 year degree.
First of all, it's their test, so it's their discretion. Second, there actually appears to be logic behind their decision. They want a higher standard for the people who hold that particular certification.
It tells you that the person holding the title didn't just study for a test and pass it... They had the follow-through to get a full 4-year degree. So all you have to do is see that CSCS behind someone's name, and you know that they have a formal education in addition to meeting the requirements for training athletes.
I can understand your frustration and desire to vent. Unfortunately it does no good. When you finish your degree and go back and take it you will be that much more proud because of how hard it was to attain.
Don't put too much value on it though. I don't have a CSCS and it didn't prevent me from achieving success in this industry in the slightest.
Personally I don't see what a CSCS gets you over a CPT in relation to actually DOING stuff in the field. And from my understanding CSCS is more … academic? … than CPT, which is more hands on.
There's plenty of careers that only require a SPECIALIZED associates (which is different than a general AS/AA degree). There's nothing wrong with that, as the person tends to have enough coursework to make up a BS/BA in that field (or similar) but lose out on those electives that "round you out".
Their idea that an associates is not much of a degree vs. a bachelors isn't based, I'm betting, on the specialized associates, but more on the AS/AA then you transfer to a 4year school kind. So I doubt it's a slight to YOUR kind of degree, but to the people that went to school for 2 years taking a smattering of everything and don't have any special knowledge in anything… because AS/AA is not too much more than a glorified HS diploma.
Even still, there's something to be said for all those electives you have to take to get the hours for a 4 year degree. Connections you make because you had to take all those silly liberal arts classes that maybe change your way of seeing things. Which may or may not mean much to you, maybe you're already mentally there, but many people aren't.
You seem to be taking it personally as an affront to yourself, your knowledge and intelligence and experiences (and those of your peers) and you shouldn't. But having my AA and having gone to CC with a bunch of people I can whole-heartedly agree that the people who come out of the institutions after 4 years TEND to, on AVERAGE, have more of "what it takes" than the people I saw at the CC.
Just because you may not be that "norm" doesn't mean anything in the grand scheme of their requirements. Sometimes, life sucks. There's more ridiculous shit out there than that.
But, does it really matter anyway? What would the CSCS get you that you don't already have? I'm personally betting, not too much. Esp since if you're motivated and bright enough, you can get pretty much all you want out of life regardless of the meaningless letters after your name that some silly agency conferred upon you.
R. Nova: No matter what anyone here says, your situation won't change. Like Izzo said, if you're mad... go change things.
Nobody here can change the NSCA requirements, so save your energy for the NSCA (or better yet, your Bachelor's degree).
Honestly, so many times in life - especially when it comes to paperwork, prerequisites, applications, etc - what seems right simply doesn't matter; you just have to find a way to fucking do it. In the time it would take you to change the requirements, you could have your bachelor's, or expanded your clientele, or opened your own facility...
Releasing your anger here for more than a post or two is a waste of your time.
The NSCA wants to change their requirements to possibly be Master's Degree, or a Bachelor's in a related field. Members and executive officers have been trying to get this changed because of the watered-down effect the current requirements have on the CSCS credentials. Everyone has the CSCS. But the problem is they will lose out on some serious $$$.
I have a CSCS, and I am a PTA student, so I can tell you right off the bat that most of the interventions learned in the cirriculum are not the same as what a CSCS professional utilizes in or out the weightroom. I will agree that you hold knowledge to complete and pass the CSCS exam, but what are your goals that require you to get the CSCS, Sports Medicine like myself, or somewhere else working with athletes?? If you petition to the NSCA that you will be working with athletes, and not trying to get the CSCS just for the sake of having the CSCS, they may be lenient in your situation.
The NSCA wants to change their requirements to possibly be Master's Degree, or a Bachelor's in a related field. Members and executive officers have been trying to get this changed because of the watered-down effect the current requirements have on the CSCS credentials. Everyone has the CSCS. But the problem is they will lose out on some serious $$$.
They should add additional certs or distinctions to combat that, then.
They already have two, which go above and beyond the cscs.
Rather than increase the requirements for the CSCS, which would call into question the qualifications of those who were grandfathered in, they should add a higher level cert in addition to the CSCS.
Rather than increase the requirements for the CSCS, which would call into question the qualifications of those who were grandfathered in, they should add a higher level cert in addition to the CSCS.
good point, and I know they've been trying do that also, with CP or registered; they also have their CSCS or CPT w./ distinction.
I personally feel that if they will increase the requirements, they should also regulate who gets grandfathered in. Should personal trainers get grandfathered in when they don't work with athletes? Should a PT or PTA get grandfathered in who work in an acute clinical setting? I'm working with athletes now on with a BS, but should I get grandfathered in because I'm not in a high school, collegiate or professional setting?
I was hoping for a response by the OP to see what his/her goals were for obtaining the CSCS, and why it's so important to enter the job market with it. In many ways, all you need is a PT or PTA license to work with athletes. I know here in NE WI, most strength job are taken by licensed individuals without the CSCS.
Why is someone with a bachelor's degree in archeology (an example) more qualified to take the CSCS test than a person who is already a personal trainer and has 2 years of college education in a related field to exercise science. It sucks that the establishment won't change.
Someone with that background can get a certification from any legitimate organization. Just not NSCA CSCS. It helps if you have a background in fitness, but that is not their requirement. They require that at minimum you have a 4 year degree. You could have a degree in underwater basket weaving, but you had to follow through on 4 years worth of classes and still had to take a core curriculum including history, math, science, logic, literature, etc.
You don't just learn a trade in a 4 year degree... You ideally learn critical thinking skills that better suit you for higher education, which is apparently what NSCA is looking for with their CSCS cert.
Dammit JP, I told you to keep my degree in UBW on the down low! I did graduate with honors though, if that comforts anyone regarding my CSCS.
__________________
Working "hard," or the perception of working hard, doesn't really mean anything. Sweating, vomiting, and breathing hard could be a good workout or a tropical disease kicking in.-Dan John
I can understand the frustration, though, because awhile back I applied for a job with a training center that required their trainers to have a degree in a related field. I could have had every certification under the sun, plus 20 years experience and it still wouldn't have mattered. Yet someone with a degree that the ink hadn't even dried on, and zero experience as a trainer, would have been welcomed right in.
It is what it is. There's nothing to do for it but deal with it. If you want the CSCS, then get a four year degree.
that's too bad (about the job) - we had something similar years ago in the computer/IT field - but most job definitions at the bigger shops were written somewhat enlighted to say something like "degree in CS or related field + 2 years experience or 5 years work experience" because they knew that the best people with actual experience in the field many times didn't have degrees in the field because they had been working in the field before such degrees were offered or prevalent. And they knew that people with wet ink diplomas would be useless without mentoring/supervision for a year or two. But then you (usually) can't injure someone by writing a program for them.
NSCA CSCS requirements ridiculous
Linear Mode
