I got asked this by a coach/trainer who is a friend of mine and told him I would post it on here. Hopefully he signs up here if some discussion occours.
He coaches (well, assistant coach) a fairly decent rugby team. Obviously in a sport like rugby, drugs are involved at most levels. He estimated that between 60-80% of the team is at least popping a few dbols before training. Its not illegal to possess steroids here in Canada.
The coach is a long time user himself and wants to actually help educate the team in terms of proper/more responsible use. But is worried that if he does bring it up - and any of more clueless parents/admin/other coaches finds out, his job is done and a shitstorm could ensue.
For those who train football/track/fighters etc where use is pretty common - what do you do? If you dont know if they are using, I dont think you could really give them proper training advice.
Kind of an interesting situation I bet alot of coaches/trainers find themselves in.
It's like handing out condoms to middleschoolers. America teaches safe sex, you teach safe steroid usage. You just have to let it be known that you do not condone it for them. If they know your personal history, you can just be honest about it and say that you have yet to feel the negative consequences, which might come later. Just explain the risks. Is that kind of what you were getting at Frank? He sounds like he would have valuable knowledge to contribute so I wanted to make sure I got a response up. Have a good one.
I think that if he's a coach he just needs to focus on training. It is SO not worth it. Not only that, by teaching them safe and proper usage, he IS condoning it. If he was dealing with consenting adults it would be one thing, but as a coach of students he really has a duty to those kids to steer them away from drugs. Saying that 60-80% of them are already doing it is a cop out.
If he is working with kids than there are some serious dangers involved with taking anabolic steroids. One of the main risks is the long term effects on the endocrine system. It as be demonstrated that administrating to individuals under the age of 22 produces life long hormonal imbalances.
This has not been seen in adults over the age of 25. If fact for males over the age of 25 they are safe. Safer than many of the nutritional supplements on the market.
Something I don't understand in the US is that they classify anabolic steroids as a class III drug yet it does not meet any of the criteria of a class III drug??? I believe even the FDA protested against the classification.
Bottom line.... steroids with kids are a very bad mix.
I workout in a gym where most all the bbers use. The owner of the gym is quite proud of this fact and pretty open about it. That said he draws some pretty hard lines with respect to usage. One if about beginners. He told me I had to lift for 5 years before I was allowed to consider it. The other is with young people. It just doesn't make sense for young people in general.
I am with JP. Everything this guys says and does should be against young people talking steriods. There should be no question in anybodys mind how he feels.
That said.... There are some really informational folders and good mentors on MD forums about this subject and forum leaders too (one of the folders is called "chemical enhancement"). If one goes there they will find that all of the IFBB pros on that board also agree with steriods and young people not being a good match. The young people will not find support on that board for their decision to use but they will find answers to questions and good guidelines on the subject.
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The BIGGER I get the smaller you look
I got asked this by a coach/trainer who is a friend of mine and told him I would post it on here. Hopefully he signs up here if some discussion occours.
He coaches (well, assistant coach) a fairly decent rugby team. Obviously in a sport like rugby, drugs are involved at most levels. He estimated that between 60-80% of the team is at least popping a few dbols before training. Its not illegal to possess steroids here in Canada.
The coach is a long time user himself and wants to actually help educate the team in terms of proper/more responsible use. But is worried that if he does bring it up - and any of more clueless parents/admin/other coaches finds out, his job is done and a shitstorm could ensue.
For those who train football/track/fighters etc where use is pretty common - what do you do? If you dont know if they are using, I dont think you could really give them proper training advice.
Kind of an interesting situation I bet alot of coaches/trainers find themselves in.
There are a few issues he needs to consider.
1) what is the official stance of the league- and then his team.
2) what are thhe legal ramifications of adivising them on the use.
3) health - risks are quite different for the age group
keep this in mind if he does "educate" his team on their use- someone (parent/admin, etc) WILL find out- only a matter of time and he will likely get canned.
I would suggest that he take a proactive ANTI steriod stance - if only because of the age of his "users". If that seems hypocritical to him then he should not do anything. However, I would guess there is something in his contract about being a leader and example TC for developing young athletes and following the standards set by what ever sport body governs collegiate sport in ALB. His turning a bling eye to this is IMO more hypocritical.
Cheers
Peter
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Peter
After all, diamonds are a girl's best friend…
If you really wanted it to stop, you would raid their rooms and find the one's using and kick their ass. What's more important, privacy laws or helping a kid get off drugs? However, most of the people saying you shouldn't offer safe usage technique might also the people who would not risk their neck by invading privacy laws, in my opinion.
So we are back to grey area and seeking middle ground. I say teach safe usage and convince yourself and others that you don't need steroids to get stronger, when that takes away from an obvious mind body soul balance, that is crucial for functionability in life.
Do both. And the best way to do it would be have a class on safe usage, so everyone knows, and okay maybe that results in a couple more users, but then go kick everybody's ass you think may be doing them, and there you add 2 and you subtract 20, and then the one oddball that just got worse from you kicking his ass, well you hopefully luck out and put him in treatment before he kills himself.
Either way, with trying or not trying, it could result in death or overdose (am i wrong?), and if not, perhaps later down the road it will. If you kill them now or later, it's still killing them, but we do that all the time don't we, we flick people off and give them heart attacks, and take no blame.
And if someone actually gives a shit, then get off the computer and go do something about the world. If not, then at least let the guy teach safe habits, while giving him shit about screwing up young kids because he is worried about what other people may think about him.
My unasshole advice= teach class on safe usage, then send out an email awareness to the parents about symptoms of drug useage so the parents can help identify users.
If the kid is really good at hiding it, then he's probably good enough not to overdose, and maybe smart enough to get off it himself.
Good luck, and sorry for being a dick, I'm sure it just makes me look like a moron.
1) what is the official stance of the league- and then his team.
2) what are thhe legal ramifications of adivising them on the use.
3) health - risks are quite different for the age group
Peter
non tested, anything goes
im not sure of the legal advising. like i said, they are legal to own here (but, not to buy or sell). Actually - the law enforcement is know to take advantage of this law. I train with some of them occasionally. odd.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam Welch
If you really wanted it to stop, you would raid their rooms and find the one's using and kick their ass. What's more important, privacy laws or helping a kid get off drugs? However, most of the people saying you shouldn't offer safe usage technique might also the people who would not risk their neck by invading privacy laws, in my opinion.
So we are back to grey area and seeking middle ground. I say teach safe usage and convince yourself and others that you don't need steroids to get stronger, when that takes away from an obvious mind body soul balance, that is crucial for functionability in life.
Do both. And the best way to do it would be have a class on safe usage, so everyone knows, and okay maybe that results in a couple more users, but then go kick everybody's ass you think may be doing them, and there you add 2 and you subtract 20, and then the one oddball that just got worse from you kicking his ass, well you hopefully luck out and put him in treatment before he kills himself.
Either way, with trying or not trying, it could result in death or overdose (am i wrong?), and if not, perhaps later down the road it will. If you kill them now or later, it's still killing them, but we do that all the time don't we, we flick people off and give them heart attacks, and take no blame.
And if someone actually gives a shit, then get off the computer and go do something about the world. If not, then at least let the guy teach safe habits, while giving him shit about screwing up young kids because he is worried about what other people may think about him.
My unasshole advice= teach class on safe usage, then send out an email awareness to the parents about symptoms of drug useage so the parents can help identify users.
If the kid is really good at hiding it, then he's probably good enough not to overdose, and maybe smart enough to get off it himself.
Good luck, and sorry for being a dick, I'm sure it just makes me look like a moron.
couple things,
- The safe usage technique which is taught by most = no usage. Very few highly competitive athletes are going to accept this.
- you cant OD on steroids.
- they are 18-25, i doubt many of them are living with their parents. and besides that I doubt most parents are going to notice symptoms such as : reduction in HDL, increase in LDL, etc..
I heard the best thing to watch for information on steroids is bigger, stronger, faster... am I right? What else should I read? I can't really comment further without knowing more.
What "ARE" proper usage techniques... I'd like to know. Then we can think about a way he could present the information. We can use metaphors and hints. I'm also interested to know why he doesn't want to just bust the one's using, anyway, but as I said in my last post, I don't know anything about steroids, except that most people say they are bad, and a couple don't seem to think they are as bad as they are portrayed.
What "ARE" proper usage techniques... I'd like to know. Then we can think about a way he could present the information. We can use metaphors and hints. I'm also interested to know why he doesn't want to just bust the one's using, anyway, but as I said in my last post, I don't know anything about steroids, except that most people say they are bad, and a couple don't seem to think they are as bad as they are portrayed.
Are you thinking of using the steroid my man or are you on the ageinst steroids point of view?
Against steroids, but would like to know more about them. I am in no rush to compete, and I don't get a large ego boost from my looks. I feel that the stronger looking I get, the less I have to rely on my charisma to win people's respect (although strength would be respect out of fear) and that is not good, since I want to be a motivational speaker. Don't worry about me, but I would like to know if they are as bad as everyone makes them out to be.
What "ARE" proper usage techniques... I'd like to know. Then we can think about a way he could present the information. We can use metaphors and hints. I'm also interested to know why he doesn't want to just bust the one's using, anyway, but as I said in my last post, I don't know anything about steroids, except that most people say they are bad, and a couple don't seem to think they are as bad as they are portrayed.
I do not think they are bad (in general) anymore than I think that 420 is bad. Bad things can happen if you mis-use them but I personally think they can be used safely. There are a lot of ethical things that come into play though when an athlete decides to use. I have respect for the athletes that I know who are using. They have better gains than their natty counterparts but that doesn't mean they don't work hard. They still have to work very, very hard. In Bodybuilding it is unique because they actually have shows for both the nattys and the users allowing people who decide to not use to compete farily. If all sports did that I would personally condone the use of steriods in all sports. Since they don't I only really think it is fair in bodybuilding to use.
One of the best sites I have found for useage information is MD forums. The folks on there post great information on what and how to use. You can find pretty much anything you want to know about anabolics on that site.
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The BIGGER I get the smaller you look
Against steroids, but would like to know more about them. I am in no rush to compete, and I don't get a large ego boost from my looks. I feel that the stronger looking I get, the less I have to rely on my charisma to win people's respect (although strength would be respect out of fear) and that is not good, since I want to be a motivational speaker. Don't worry about me, but I would like to know if they are as bad as everyone makes them out to be.
I think you got the good atitude about this stuff my man!!
It sounds like you have more charisma then you can shake the carrot at the end of some sticks with so the being strong is only makin it better!!!
One more thing on the subject of using anabolics just as an FYI... And this is why it gets really tricky to give advice on using them. The right combination and dosages are unique to everyone. It is a lot like finding the right macros and calories. There is no "one size fits all" scenarios. Only general guidelines.
This is another reason for anyone in a position of authority to stay FAR away from giving advice on them. Way too easy to lead someone astray. That said there is no reason why you cannot point them to other users though who you know can advise. If anyone wants to know who are the "reliable" sources on MD to listen to, PM me and I will send you the usernames of the people I know who I believe really know what they are doing and are will willing share. To my knowledge all of them respond to PMs and personal questions on the subject. It is the most open and knowledgeable place I have found.
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The BIGGER I get the smaller you look
One more thing on the subject of using anabolics just as an FYI... And this is why it gets really tricky to give advice on using them. The right combination and dosages are unique to everyone. It is a lot like finding the right macros and calories. There is no "one size fits all" scenarios. Only general guidelines.
You hit the nail on the head with this statement. These are powerful prescription drugs. Ironically docs tend to be very uninformed about them. Many just reinforce the myths surrounding them, proving their ignorance.
On the flip side, a bb-er who uses them is no medical professional, yet he dispenses advice on dosages and combinations etc. Neither side is really truly qualified to help you.
The problem is that steroids are the 2000 pound elephant in the room that no one wants to talk about. I understand the point of the OP... The coach wants to give advice to kids to prevent them from doing it wrong or to help them get the most out of it, because he knows the reality is that most kids are going to do it in his field.
The only simple solution to this is what has already been said. Don't risk your job. Maybe start copying articles and sending them to parents/athletes, but don't directly engage in advising about their usage. He will not just lose his job, but he will go to jail, and it is just not worth it, even if his intentions are good.
FYI, there are other symptoms besides HDL. When your 19 year old puts on 20 pounds of LEAN mass in a few months that is probably a good indicator. That doesn't happen naturally even under the best of circumstances.
One more thing on the subject of using anabolics just as an FYI... And this is why it gets really tricky to give advice on using them. The right combination and dosages are unique to everyone. It is a lot like finding the right macros and calories. There is no "one size fits all" scenarios. Only general guidelines.
This is another reason for anyone in a position of authority to stay FAR away from giving advice on them. Way too easy to lead someone astray. That said there is no reason why you cannot point them to other users though who you know can advise. If anyone wants to know who are the "reliable" sources on MD to listen to, PM me and I will send you the usernames of the people I know who I believe really know what they are doing and are will willing share. To my knowledge all of them respond to PMs and personal questions on the subject. It is the most open and knowledgeable place I have found.
Are the dudes on the steroids at MD wicked big dudes? I hope they are when their giving advice to the other people using the juices!!!!
Are the dudes on the steroids at MD wicked big dudes? I hope they are when their giving advice to the other people using the juices!!!!
You sound like you assume big, muscular guys know a lot about getting that way. However, I disagree. Most I know are not really sure of how they got that way and we should instead listen to guys that have read up on the latest theories for building muscle, even if they aren't big / strong.
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Since most of your life is already complicated, why make your training the same way? Jim Wendler
You sound like you assume big, muscular guys know a lot about getting that way. However, I disagree. Most I know are not really sure of how they got that way and we should instead listen to guys that have read up on the latest theories for building muscle, even if they aren't big / strong.
Yah but if your wicked huge like Frank S. who does 755 pounds on the squating in the competition than you prolly dont much listen to little dude who gets like only 350 cuz Frank S. prolly knows more to get 755. The little dude only got to 350 with his muscle theories and Frank S. got to 755 cuz he must know how to get their.
how can you be against them if you don't know a lot about them?
I never felt it necessary to think why I'd need to do anything that isn't natural, but we all have our addictions, and no one is perfect. Fitness is only a small part of life. Yes fitness is awesome.
I think you got the good atitude about this stuff my man!!
It sounds like you have more charisma then you can shake the carrot at the end of some sticks with so the being strong is only makin it better!!!
Nah. I hold back until I explode, and people won't always appreciate my exremes until I work that out. *shrugs... been an interesting night
Yah but if your wicked huge like Frank S. who does 755 pounds on the squating in the competition than you prolly dont much listen to little dude who gets like only 350 cuz Frank S. prolly knows more to get 755. The little dude only got to 350 with his muscle theories and Frank S. got to 755 cuz he must know how to get their.
So, you agree with me? Guys like Frank S. should listen to the smaller guys with theories so he can get stronger, right? I mean, it doesn't take long to see that Frank S. has no idea how to get strong. Just read his posts.
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Since most of your life is already complicated, why make your training the same way? Jim Wendler
Dealing with steroids
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