So, you agree with me? Guys like Frank S. should listen to the smaller guys with theories so he can get stronger, right? I mean, it doesn't take long to see that Frank S. has no idea how to get strong. Just read his posts.
Not so much I dont think cuz Frank S. is wicked strong with good results in the competition so he must at least know something about gettin strong or he would do real bad in the competiton.
The coach is a long time user himself and wants to actually help educate the team in terms of proper/more responsible use. But is worried that if he does bring it up - and any of more clueless parents/admin/other coaches finds out, his job is done and a shitstorm could ensue.
For those who train football/track/fighters etc where use is pretty common - what do you do? If you don't know if they are using, I dont think you could really give them proper training advice.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank.S
non tested, anything goes
im not sure of the legal advising. like i said, they are legal to own here (but, not to buy or sell). Actually - the law enforcement is know to take advantage of this law. I train with some of them occasionally. odd.
Then I think that your friend is in a very gray area. However, having had some experience in organizations of different sorts, whether what he does is legal, morale or ethical or NOT, if he is "found out" to be dispensing advice about steriods in the current "climate", he will be out of a job.
I do not think that the debate about whether steriods are harmful or helpful or anything else are relevant to this situation. The most important factor is the current organizational perception of steriods. If you agree with that you will likely agree he is in a lose-lose situation. He cannot honestly advise the (though I do not agree with that stance-see above) as he would like to, so for him either scenario is not ideal.
Bottom line: does he want to keep his job?
Cheers
Peter
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Peter
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That makes sens Pete, I think he could get someone else to approach certain kids though, or maybe try and change the system.
Quite a few in fact. Testosterone is used in life extension (along with treatment for cancer and aids).
I personal know 1 person in there 90's on both Test and hGH. They are looking great, highly active, still lifting weights.
Show me one actual death associated anabolic steroids. There is not one. If you look at the cases put forward then you will see the death was not steroids. They do this to scare the public. This only happens in US and Australia and maybe in a few other countries that have been pressured by the US.
Most of the world steroids are available over the counter and in these countries you do not see an abuse problem like seen here.
Do you realize the government had steroids classified as a class III drug when it does not meet the criteria and not only that the FDA actually voiced their protest to this.
i think you need to educate yourself before jumping to conclusions that steroids kill people at an early age. "Steroids" are a generic term for things like testosterone that has become increasingly popular in the past few years for it's anti-aging and other beneficial properties.
how many people do you know that lived past 90, considering the average life expectancy is still 77-80 in the US???
i'm not saying they're good for you, but you need to read more about things from both sides and make up your mind before you make posts like you do.
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i think you need to educate yourself before jumping to conclusions that steroids kill people at an early age. "Steroids" are a generic term for things like testosterone that has become increasingly popular in the past few years for it's anti-aging and other beneficial properties.
how many people do you know that lived past 90, considering the average life expectancy is still 77-80 in the US???
i'm not saying they're good for you, but you need to read more about things from both sides and make up your mind before you make posts like you do.
Sorry. I'll work on it. I wanted to know the answer, I wasn't taunting. I don't know that's why I'm asking.
How many people are healthy? What is their life expectancy? Compare that number to the life expectancy of steroid users. Don't compare it to the national average, when most people don't live very well.
Sorry. I'll work on it. I wanted to know the answer, I wasn't taunting. I don't know that's why I'm asking.
How many people are healthy? What is their life expectancy? Compare that number to the life expectancy of steroid users. Don't compare it to the national average, when most people don't live very well.
Testosterone (steroids) are used in life extension.... that should answer your question.
If anyone wants to know who are the "reliable" sources on MD to listen to, PM me and I will send you the usernames of the people I know who I believe really know what they are doing and are will willing share. To my knowledge all of them respond to PMs and personal questions on the subject. It is the most open and knowledgeable place I have found.
So youre now the drug resource hookup?
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Testosterone (steroids) are used in life extension.... that should answer your question.
Do you drink alcohol?
Wow I had no idea steroids could be compared to the health effects of alcohol so easily.. Point taken, however, no I hardly ever drink alcohol, but I drink caffeine a lot.
Wow I had no idea steroids could be compared to the health effects of alcohol so easily.. Point taken, however, no I hardly ever drink alcohol, but I drink caffeine a lot.
Uh... No way. I know very little if anything about them. I am learning as much as I can though as I am not opposed to them and may even do them one day (in the future not now).
It happens in my studies and in my adventures that I do know some coaches who are succesful and reasonable on this subject. These people coach others on anabolic use and the people they coach seem to do well. Perhaps these are not the best resources around so if you know better please speak up and offer it.
Everyone who is considering using, should have access to whatever information is available. It beats the heck outta asking your friend who knows only his own information and copying it. (Esp if you are a girl and asking your boyfriend. Happens all the time. Yikes)
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Trouble with using AS is that there's so little knowledge and yet, so much abuse even at a far too young age. Young men that aren't yet 21 yrs old have no reason whatsoever to be using AS.
The entire issue is like people being in a room with a large elephant that everyone pretends to not see since they don't talk about it. This is what makes it a big problem for the people (coaches) involved since not discussing it doesnt make the elephant go away while the elephant has no legal right to be there.
Trying to find out as much of the topic as you can before starting on anything is the best gift to yourself. Or to someone else if you know (s)he's not going to do the research. A very common mistake for women is to start on a dose that is far too high and inappropriate for them.
If he is working with kids than there are some serious dangers involved with taking anabolic steroids. One of the main risks is the long term effects on the endocrine system. It as be demonstrated that administrating to individuals under the age of 22 produces life long hormonal imbalances.
This has not been seen in adults over the age of 25. If fact for males over the age of 25 they are safe. Safer than many of the nutritional supplements on the market.
Something I don't understand in the US is that they classify anabolic steroids as a class III drug yet it does not meet any of the criteria of a class III drug??? I believe even the FDA protested against the classification.
Bottom line.... steroids with kids are a very bad mix.
Do you have a reference for this? I'd love to read up if someone has done research on long lasting hormonal effects of steroids.
Do you have a reference for this? I'd love to read up if someone has done research on long lasting hormonal effects of steroids.
Quote:
Originally Posted by optimum performance If he is working with kids than there are some serious dangers involved with taking anabolic steroids. One of the main risks is the long term effects on the endocrine system. It as be demonstrated that administrating to individuals under the age of 22 produces life long hormonal imbalances.
Two issues that have been brought up but not really addressed thanks to the "whoever can lift more is right" argument tangent:
1) What is the league's stance on steroid use?
I am almost positive that if this is an amateur league that participates in rugby union tournaments in Canada that steroid use is not permitted. Athletes are not tested randomly, possibly because they're not at a high enough level to warrant that kind of attention. Whether steroids are legal to possess or not is not the ethical issue here. You play by the rules. This is not a game of "what can you get away with", nor should that be the message conveyed to young athletes. If and when steroids become "okay" by league rules, then your friend is free to teach whatever he wants, but until then the rules are the rules.
2) Your friend is a coach...
...and not a random user off the street. He is a position of authority and there is a power imbalance present in the relationship between him and his athletes. His words carry weight and endorsement. Steroids are not harmless substances, even if their side effects are somewhat exaggerated. We teach kids about safe sex. We don't teach them about safe heroin injection methods (though we do have needle exchange programs and safe injection sites--in Vancouver anyways). There's "damage mitigation" and then there's "complete absurdity". Your friend has a responsibility to act as a coach, in the role of a coach in the league that he represents. The idea that if you don't know if your athletes are using steroids or not somehow compromises their training is utter crap. If you know your athletes are using, as a coach, you should not be turning a blind eye to it.
And really, what is he going to teach them? Safe injection methods? How to tell if what they got is real? Detailed instructions down to on and off-cycling? If I tell a patient how to take a drug and something bad happens, I'm responsible for prescribing it and dealing with the complication. If one of his athletes suffers an adverse event from following his instructions (properly or "perceived properly, but not actually properly"), who is responsible? Does he want that responsibility? Does he actually know enough about steroids to give this advice beyond simply being a long-term user who may interact with a handful of other long-term users?
This isn't a very grey area at all, in my opinion.
Also, i think college level rugby isn't the best team to debate with. If we replaced college level rugby (which has pretty much 0 future for the players). With college level football at a D1 school, things are going the change. Every linebacker, lineman, and back on that team knows down right that if they want a shot at higher level football, they have pretty much always got to use. The competition is so tight, any advantage is a huge one.
The problem with steroids, pot, and the other 'omg, make them illegal to save the children' drugs is that since they are illegal it's hard to do any real research on them. Some studies have shown testosterone hormone replacement to be a good thing in men as they get older. Of course with the current steroid stigma this will never happen anytime soon. Look at something like pot, which has been shown to be a great anti-nausea medication, especially for those undergoing chemo. The anti-drug nuts like to keep that under wraps though.
Speaking of drugs in general. If you look at the history of drugs you'll see that what's illegal and not illegal rarely falls into a good for you, bad for you category. In history it's almost always been driven by something social. Pot for example was outlawed for the most part because of racism against the mexicans and africans-americans. If you really want a dangerous drug that really does lead directly to lots of deaths every year look at alcohol. We saw where outlawing it got us. Basically the mob and an endless string of Kennedys (who have killed their own share of people but that's a different topic )
So just be careful when making judgements about a drugs potential for harm based on its legality.
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Misinformation and fear are the bludgeon that has kept the majority of America learning any of the practical applications of Testosterone and "steriods".
Plenty of studies out there about the benefits of HRT and men over the age of 35, but the stigma of the word "steriods" and the current media sensationalism and propaganda drown out the real information available.
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The problem with steroids, pot, and the other 'omg, make them illegal to save the children' drugs is that since they are illegal it's hard to do any real research on them. Some studies have shown testosterone hormone replacement to be a good thing in men as they get older. Of course with the current steroid stigma this will never happen anytime soon. Look at something like pot, which has been shown to be a great anti-nausea medication, especially for those undergoing chemo. The anti-drug nuts like to keep that under wraps though.
Speaking of drugs in general. If you look at the history of drugs you'll see that what's illegal and not illegal rarely falls into a good for you, bad for you category. In history it's almost always been driven by something social. Pot for example was outlawed for the most part because of racism against the mexicans and africans-americans. If you really want a dangerous drug that really does lead directly to lots of deaths every year look at alcohol. We saw where outlawing it got us. Basically the mob and an endless string of Kennedys (who have killed their own share of people but that's a different topic )
So just be careful when making judgements about a drugs potential for harm based on its legality.
No. Angry drivers don't want a bunch of pot heads driving around "calmly" and within the speed limit, and the old people in congress just don't like change, period. lol jp
PS: what if you lift for your life everyday with someone whipping you if you don't try hard enough, would that be able to compete with steroids?
"Steroids" like all other drugs in the US (can only speak for the US) are a big mess. I agree the media is very very very x10 uninformed as are the people x20.
Most people still think creatine is a "steroid." The fact is, if used under medical supervision, "steroids" are not dangerous at all in most people.
Medical Supervision is the Key
If a client or friend asks me about steroids, I tell them to ask their doctor, end of story. If most "steroids" weren't illegal and sold on the black market, there would be no problem with high school/college kids because no doctor would prescribe any "steroids" to anyone of good health in that age group.
The worst thing about how uninformed the media and people of the US are about "steroids" is they really have no clue what "steroids" are.
By no means am I a steroid guru or organic chemist but I know there are dozens if not hundreds of different types of oral, transdermal, injectable and sublingual substances which can be classified as steroids, some which have medicinal uses and some which do not. It is the job of medical professionals to educate people
The good news is there are "anti-aging" clinics which are prescribing testosterone and HGH to 40+ people and it is improving (most of the time dramatically) the quality of their lives and they shouldn't have to hide or be ashamed of the fact that they get prescribed testosterone which is even covered by their health insurance.
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