Ok, this is hard for me to talk about...lol. I have a certain client that is gay, which i don't mind at all. I have trained many gay people in the past and in fact my all time favorite client happened to be gay. A great guy, never made me feel uncomfortable.
So on to the problem. This new client is a very forward gay man. I actually have no problem with a man telling me im good looking or whatever, I am very secure with my sexuality, but this guy is taking it too far. I'm a nice guy but he is taking it to the point that even I am strained.
I've told him I have a girlfriend, Ive told him im not gay. Nothing seems to work. He thinks I'm magically going to start liking penis. I figure if it hasnt happened in 29 years it ain't happenin'.
Anyway the guy is always in boxers when i go to his house. He makes it a point to have a button undone on them which is absolutely disgusting. He talks about how good looking I am constantly. He is touchy feely but not terribly so or I would punch him in the face. Also he is a terrible client. He is basically paying me so he can have a young guy in his house i guess. I mean we don't get through half the exercises, he gabs constantly. So his results are sure to be sub par.
So any of you guys had an experience such as this? I mean I'm just starting my business, and I need money but not this bad! He bought 9 sessions, he has used 4 of them. Im trying my best to make it through these sessions so I can keep the money which I need for rent and bills since im just starting out. After they are through I am probably going to write him a letter stating that our "business relationship" isnt working out.
Comments? Take it easy on me it wasnt easy to tell this story...lol.
__________________
"Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity."
-Seneca
I am probably not going to come back to this thread b/c I shudder to think of the possible "anti-gay" comments that could result. I thank you, CE, for being respectful in your post. Anyone who wants to throw their homophobic remarks out hopefully bites their tongue. In this day and age, I feel it's ridiculous, chicken shit, and unnecessary.
With that being said...
I've been in your shoes...i've had sleazy nasty old men hit on me, i've had handsome guys hit on me, i've had homely women hit on me, and i've had hot women hit on me. Same goes for clients, lol People are people. I have a gay brother and have gay friends and I am very used to the "stereotypical gay male" stuff. Guys are guys, I guess. Okay, I guess it goes for women too, because I have had numerous "seemingly-non-gay" female clients come on to me. Engaged...married...you name it. Yeah, of course i've had guy clients hit on me too. What sucks is that you're there to do your JOB and in no way are you seeking anything aside from that, but a client has other intentions. Personally, situations like this make me feel like a piece of meat, scuzzy, and extremely uncomfortable.
Is it okay for him to act like that? No. It's definitely crossing the boundaries. It would be a violation of boundaries if it was a male...female...alien...cat... dog...you name it.
It's not right. You have a business arrangement. The fact that you go to train him in his home makes things harder. I understand this b/c that's how I run my business. Yes, i've been placed in a few uncomforable situations b/c of this. You need to trust your gut. Yes, you need the money, but are you willing to feel uncomfortable finishing out the rest of his sessions? If I were in your shoes, after all i've had to deal with, i'd confront him. It's not fair for you to feel you're not able to do your job b/c he's obviously got different things in mind. It's just not right. It sucks if you're needing the money, so you gotta figure that one out. I personally would let him know how I felt and see what happened from there.
And can I borrow this quote? "He thinks I'm magically going to start liking penis. I figure if it hasnt happened in 29 years it ain't happenin'."
__________________ "If you love what you do, you'll never have to work a day in your life." Visit my blog:"Outside the Box" Training!
Up your rate. He's either going to drop you as a trainer or pay the new rate. Either way, you win. The stress is only worth so much money. I have plenty of gay clients but I have never had an issue of them hitting on me. Off color comments, sure, but it's always said in good fun and not at all uncomfortable.
I am probably not going to come back to this thread b/c I shudder to think of the possible "anti-gay" comments that could result. I thank you, CE, for being respectful in your post. Anyone who wants to throw their homophobic remarks out hopefully bites their tongue. In this day and age, I feel it's ridiculous, chicken shit, and unnecessary.
With that being said...
If you do come back, I think you'll find that most people around here are good people. I've been here a few years and haven't seen anything negative on the subject.
I am probably not going to come back to this thread b/c I shudder to think of the possible "anti-gay" comments that could result. I thank you, CE, for being respectful in your post. Anyone who wants to throw their homophobic remarks out hopefully bites their tongue. In this day and age, I feel it's ridiculous, chicken shit, and unnecessary.
With that being said...
I've been in your shoes...i've had sleazy nasty old men hit on me, i've had handsome guys hit on me, i've had homely women hit on me, and i've had hot women hit on me. Same goes for clients, lol People are people. I have a gay brother and have gay friends and I am very used to the "stereotypical gay male" stuff. Guys are guys, I guess. Okay, I guess it goes for women too, because I have had numerous "seemingly-non-gay" female clients come on to me. Engaged...married...you name it. Yeah, of course i've had guy clients hit on me too. What sucks is that you're there to do your JOB and in no way are you seeking anything aside from that, but a client has other intentions. Personally, situations like this make me feel like a piece of meat, scuzzy, and extremely uncomfortable.
Is it okay for him to act like that? No. It's definitely crossing the boundaries. It would be a violation of boundaries if it was a male...female...alien...cat... dog...you name it.
It's not right. You have a business arrangement. The fact that you go to train him in his home makes things harder. I understand this b/c that's how I run my business. Yes, i've been placed in a few uncomforable situations b/c of this. You need to trust your gut. Yes, you need the money, but are you willing to feel uncomfortable finishing out the rest of his sessions? If I were in your shoes, after all i've had to deal with, i'd confront him. It's not fair for you to feel you're not able to do your job b/c he's obviously got different things in mind. It's just not right. It sucks if you're needing the money, so you gotta figure that one out. I personally would let him know how I felt and see what happened from there.
And can I borrow this quote? "He thinks I'm magically going to start liking penis. I figure if it hasnt happened in 29 years it ain't happenin'."
Haha, you can borrow the quote. Like I said being gay is fine, being straight is fine. Its none of my business about someone's sexuality, but when that other person tries to push the boundaries of our "arrangement" it makes me feel used and kind of dirty.
I happen to be straight, he is gay, this makes it slightly more uncomfortable...but id be uncomfortable if it was a woman doing this as well. This is my livelihood and I would never jepardize my business for sex even if it was a beautiful woman i was very attracted to.
So its not a matter of gay or straight. Its a matter of ethics...this guys arent so good i guess.
__________________
"Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity."
-Seneca
My first trainer dropped anyone that flirted with him to that sort of point. Male or female did not matter. I think I will hold the same policy when/if it happens to me. If it isn't productive, why bother?
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The BIGGER I get the smaller you look
CE, i'm thinking this may be a good lesson for you...kinda like the ones i'm continually learning, lol. Maybe you could touch on this in your policies. I'm guessing kfisherx's trainer had this outlined in his. If you don't have a policies sheet typed up, it may not be a bad idea. Cite this kinda thing as grounds for termination of the business arrangement. From the get-go it may help people see you're not there to mess around, and it could help in weeding out the "bad apples."
Perrogrande's idea isn't a bad one at all..that's a viable route, or suddenly becoming "too busy" and having to switch times...to something horrendously early, such as 3am, lol! See what he says then.
Lost Dog - thanks, man! I'm not going anywhere! I feel I was a bit defensive and mrrrrrrrrrowwww'ish (catty, lol) at first but it was mainly to show that my claws occasionally come out if need be. My impression of this place is only a good one...and I don't see it as a place where people would throw out easy punches for the sake of knockin' other people down. I'm happy to be here!
__________________ "If you love what you do, you'll never have to work a day in your life." Visit my blog:"Outside the Box" Training!
My first trainer dropped anyone that flirted with him to that sort of point. Male or female did not matter. I think I will hold the same policy when/if it happens to me. If it isn't productive, why bother?
The ONLY reason is for money. Which seems like a sort of prostitution to me...i dont know. I totally agree with you though. I respect that policy and believe I will have it from now on as well.
__________________
"Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity."
-Seneca
CE, i'm thinking this may be a good lesson for you...kinda like the ones i'm continually learning, lol. Maybe you could touch on this in your policies. I'm guessing kfisherx's trainer had this outlined in his. If you don't have a policies sheet typed up, it may not be a bad idea. Cite this kinda thing as grounds for termination of the business arrangement. From the get-go it may help people see you're not there to mess around, and it could help in weeding out the "bad apples."
Perrogrande's idea isn't a bad one at all..that's a viable route, or suddenly becoming "too busy" and having to switch times...to something horrendously early, such as 3am, lol! See what he says then.
Lost Dog - thanks, man! I'm not going anywhere! I feel I was a bit defensive and mrrrrrrrrrowwww'ish (catty, lol) at first but it was mainly to show that my claws occasionally come out if need be. My impression of this place is only a good one...and I don't see it as a place where people would throw out easy punches for the sake of knockin' other people down. I'm happy to be here!
Hey sarah, yeah Im just starting as an independent so I'm learning ALL KINDS of lessons...lol. This is a hard job, but very rewarding. I will make the "sexual harassment" a policy because i don't want this happening again.
__________________
"Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity."
-Seneca
CE - never stop learning! By taking action on this issue right now, you're ensuring less of a headache down the road. Your heart is in the right place! I wish I had found these forums when I was just starting out. I think you will find that as you become more established as an independent trainer, your clients will serve as "walking billboards" for you. Give them your best and they will talk!!!!!!!
__________________ "If you love what you do, you'll never have to work a day in your life." Visit my blog:"Outside the Box" Training!
Here is my suggestion--and I have had many gay clients in the past--and tehya have always been my better clients (training wise).
CE-I feel for you. You are in a tight spot. However, your level of comfort is important-this early in your career. Your first few years in this industry will dictate your longevity in the field. If you are uncomfortable with one of your clients (be him gay flirting with you, paraplegic, or Klansman), you have to establish yourself not only in the eyes of your projected customers, but in yourself. If you approach your client and tell him you are uncomfortable, it may make subsequent sessions even more uncomfortable, or you will lose a client.
If I were you, it would have stopped the first time I came to his house and he was wearing boxers. Not to say you "let him", but you must project that you are in control of the session and you are a professional. The mentality should be, "I am here to provide you a service". I cannot effectively provide you that service, if I am not comfortable with my surroundings".
I think the bottom line is...it doesn't matter that your client is gay and hitting on you...you are uncomfortable. Your lack of comfort has rendered you loss of control of the session (hence the continuous gabbing) and lack of respect (as a professional) (hadly any exercise).
I hope you understand what I am saying. You can place any person in this scenario (doesn't mean just his sexuality). It could be a guy that has firearms all over his house that make you uncomfortable. The point is, tell him you are uncomfortable with his forthcomings and if he is not acceptable of your feelings, then refund hi the remaining sessions.
I would like to see you gain control of this steering wheel and keep him. I think it will do alot for you as a professional in the long run.
Werd to John. You are the master in this situation, so take charge. I once stopped a session midway in because I was training someone who was whining way too much and fighting me on every exercise we did. Finally I said, we're done.
It sucked because I was risking a client, but I was really annoyed. Interesting thing though is that it got her in that 'shit, I cant fuck around' mode and subsequently started obeying more.
Whenever I see something like your situation, I just pretend like its not there and still keep my demeanor to let them know Im not impressed and that they need to get their ass in gear. Once they know they cant get to you or the mood changes, their behavior will as well. If not, then raise your rates or threaten to drop them based on acquiescence to the program (not on their flirtiness).
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"It's a round hole, dammit. Everyone fits."--Anonymous Mod at Strengthmill
Here is my suggestion--and I have had many gay clients in the past--and tehya have always been my better clients (training wise).
CE-I feel for you. You are in a tight spot. However, your level of comfort is important-this early in your career. Your first few years in this industry will dictate your longevity in the field. If you are uncomfortable with one of your clients (be him gay flirting with you, paraplegic, or Klansman), you have to establish yourself not only in the eyes of your projected customers, but in yourself. If you approach your client and tell him you are uncomfortable, it may make subsequent sessions even more uncomfortable, or you will lose a client.
If I were you, it would have stopped the first time I came to his house and he was wearing boxers. Not to say you "let him", but you must project that you are in control of the session and you are a professional. The mentality should be, "I am here to provide you a service". I cannot effectively provide you that service, if I am not comfortable with my surroundings".
I think the bottom line is...it doesn't matter that your client is gay and hitting on you...you are uncomfortable. Your lack of comfort has rendered you loss of control of the session (hence the continuous gabbing) and lack of respect (as a professional) (hadly any exercise).
I hope you understand what I am saying. You can place any person in this scenario (doesn't mean just his sexuality). It could be a guy that has firearms all over his house that make you uncomfortable. The point is, tell him you are uncomfortable with his forthcomings and if he is not acceptable of your feelings, then refund hi the remaining sessions.
I would like to see you gain control of this steering wheel and keep him. I think it will do alot for you as a professional in the long run.
Just my 2 cents....
Everything you said is right on. I am one of those people who take things and am almost "too nice" then all of a sudden i explode and tell someone exactly how i feel. This isnt good and I should take control from the beginning. I just dont like conflict, then after it goes on long enough there is MAJOR conflict. This is not from my training experience, but from my relationship experience.
Anyway I agree with everything you said and I have to learn to be more in control. Its hard when you are starting out, I mean here I am starting to make money and this happens and threatens to take it away. Still, money is only worth so much. I am confident that my business is going to take off and I will look back and think "man i cant believe i put up with that for $500".
Anyway I am in a tight spot but if this continues I really don't think i will keep working with him. Its ridiculous...like you said it could be firearms in the home, a aggressive pit bull that tries to eat you everytime you come in, or any other number of factors. This time it just happens to me a very flirty, aggressive gay man who thinks he can convert straight people...lol.
__________________
"Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity."
-Seneca
CEF, you just need to get your sea legs under you in this industry. From your threads so far I observe a common thread... You lack confidence. You can be yourself -- a happy, motivating, high energy guy -- and still be able to lay down the law and be well liked and respected. In fact, you will be MORE liked and respected when you learn to stand up for yourself.
You have a great heart and a solid philosophy, but you don't seem to think that you deserve enough respect to be able to ask for money when your clients are due or to firmly draw your boundaries. You're in no way a prostitute... You just need to follow John's advice to the letter. That guy is just being a creep. It's up to you though, and when you figure stuff like this out I think you are going to be a fabulously successful trainer.
CEF, you just need to get your sea legs under you in this industry. From your threads so far I observe a common thread... You lack confidence. You can be yourself -- a happy, motivating, high energy guy -- and still be able to lay down the law and be well liked and respected. In fact, you will be MORE liked and respected when you learn to stand up for yourself.
You have a great heart and a solid philosophy, but you don't seem to think that you deserve enough respect to be able to ask for money when your clients are due or to firmly draw your boundaries. You're in no way a prostitute... You just need to follow John's advice to the letter. That guy is just being a creep. It's up to you though, and when you figure stuff like this out I think you are going to be a fabulously successful trainer.
Thanks JP, you guys have helped me tremendously. I agree with everything said. I do need my sea legs. I guess it will come with time. I will say that this board has sped up my progress A LOT. I am glad I can come in and talk about my issues.
I don't have a ton of confidence yet, but I do believe in what I am selling, so I believe it is worth what Im charging. I am trying to figure out the best way to make the client feel the same way. You guys and gals and your experience are helping a ton.
The guy is a creep, and not because of his sexuality. Just because he is. I suppose I have to get some battle scars before I toughen up but I aint quittin! Thanks JP for the kind words, like I said I am continually learning and hope to be a great trainer one day!
__________________
"Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity."
-Seneca
Ok, this is hard for me to talk about...lol. I have a certain client that is gay, which i don't mind at all. I have trained many gay people in the past and in fact my all time favorite client happened to be gay. A great guy, never made me feel uncomfortable.
So on to the problem. This new client is a very forward gay man. I actually have no problem with a man telling me im good looking or whatever, I am very secure with my sexuality, but this guy is taking it too far. I'm a nice guy but he is taking it to the point that even I am strained.
I've told him I have a girlfriend, Ive told him im not gay. Nothing seems to work. He thinks I'm magically going to start liking penis. I figure if it hasnt happened in 29 years it ain't happenin'.
Anyway the guy is always in boxers when i go to his house. He makes it a point to have a button undone on them which is absolutely disgusting. He talks about how good looking I am constantly. He is touchy feely but not terribly so or I would punch him in the face. Also he is a terrible client. He is basically paying me so he can have a young guy in his house i guess. I mean we don't get through half the exercises, he gabs constantly. So his results are sure to be sub par.
So any of you guys had an experience such as this? I mean I'm just starting my business, and I need money but not this bad! He bought 9 sessions, he has used 4 of them. Im trying my best to make it through these sessions so I can keep the money which I need for rent and bills since im just starting out. After they are through I am probably going to write him a letter stating that our "business relationship" isnt working out.
Comments? Take it easy on me it wasnt easy to tell this story...lol.
Just do what I did when I was a trainer - prescreen clients to make sure they are strictly women who you have an uncontrollable sexual attraction to. The is something JP taught me, and for that I have been forever grateful.
Most professionals would not put themselves into this situation. At first sign of discomfort all meetings would take place in a more public venue. I was surprised hearing that trainers did this, but not surprised at this difficulty arising. If an assertion that this was making you uncomfortable did not produce a change in behavior. DTMFA, (Seattle Stranger, Dump the MF already)
Anyway I am in a tight spot but if this continues I really don't think i will keep working with him. Its ridiculous...like you said it could be firearms in the home, a aggressive pit bull that tries to eat you everytime you come in, or any other number of factors. This time it just happens to me a very flirty, aggressive gay man who thinks he can convert straight people...lol.
Personally I would get rid of him. I know you need the money, but I would argue that the stress over the situation is not worth it.
Has he paid for the 9 sessions up front? If so and you don't want to lose the money, an alternative might be to call him before his next session and confront the issue. Explain that you have become increasingly uncomfortable with your workouts due to the some of his comments and his inappropriate attire. Explain that you are happy to continue training him, but that he needs to refrain from discussing subjects of a personal/sexual nature and that he needs to wear appropriate clothing for his workout. IMHO, this will then either play out two ways. He'll apologize and that should be the end of the issue and you can deliver the remaining sessions (and then get rid of him) or he'll turn around and get offended/embarrassed and not want to continue. If its the latter and he asks to be refunded the remaining sessions, tell him that you cannot refund the sessions as he signed up to them and you are happy to deliver them, but only on the conditions mentioned. Won't be an easy conversation but I think you will feel better for confronting it in the long term.
Also he is a terrible client. He is basically paying me so he can have a young guy in his house i guess. I mean we don't get through half the exercises, he gabs constantly. So his results are sure to be sub par.
[disclaimer] I'm not a trainer, nor do I play one on TV [/disclaimer]
I think this quote cuts to the heart of the situation. It's clear this guy's only paying to have a piece of ass in his house. You're a professional and he's not respecting that. Time to dump this client. He's not getting what he wants, and it doesn't sound like he's even paying you enough to compensate for the frustration he's causing.
I helped a friend put together an agreement for her personal training business. She was concerned about clients who didn't respect her time. We drafted the agreement so that client agrees they forfeit the session if they were unprepared and didn't cancel with reasonable notice (e.g. 24 hours). Maybe she experienced the same type of flirty client problem (I'll ask) because one thing she specifically wanted to include was a provision that client had to be properly attired.
Last edited by Pug : 12-10-2008 at 11:50 AM.
Reason: Spelling
Lay down the law or leave. It isn't even something that has to be about the flirting, it's about him not actually doing the work he pays you for, etc.
People can sense the guy who will put up with all sorts of shit because of his lack of confidence. I'm always surprised when people talk about troubles they have in one situation or another, because that never happens to me. Then I am reminded it's because I don't look and act like a pushover, and therefore people can tell I mean business and will tolerate nothing but. I'd say that makes me a bitch, and it prolly did when I was younger and more rough around the edges, but now I see that people like and respect me just fine, but I don't get saddled with all the bs drama that they toss to everyone else.
Besides, sounds like even if you DID swing that way that he's not your type.
I have had two clients act this way, both women. One would make lewd comments a lot. I work from home and at times my wife and daughter were home.
One would comments whenever I put her into certain positions. Quadrapeds were a nono foe a while. This was when I first started and I desperdately needed the client. I just ignored her comments, and to this day she is my best client.
Another client I have makes noise like she is having an orgasm. Again I ignored it and it went away.
It didnt cause me stress, so that is where my situation differs from yours. Again as mentioned you have to weigh the client/stressor v.s. money. If you can put up with it great, if not move on. Good luck either way.
Hey John, I was preparing to take eveyones advice on here and have a talk with him and the strangest thing happened. The last time we worked out before I started this thread he said "Whats wrong your energy isnt as good today." I kind of blew it off. The next session he was MUCH better. I think that he started to get the picture that I didnt like his behavior.
The last 3 times I have trained him he has not only worked out harder but has ditched the touchy feely crap and hardly mentions anything sexual. He has been a good client for the last few sessions. IF he stays like this I decided I will keep him, if he reverts back I will have to speak up like you guys said and ditch the guy.
I can't say it was anything I did, just maybe that he "got the drift" so to speak that I was straight and didnt appreciate being hit on while at work.
So I think this thread is still VERY valuable and has great advice. If he reverts back to his old ways I will take everyones advice and stand up for myself. I guess I lucked out this time...at least so far. We'll see how things shape up in the future.
__________________
"Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity."
-Seneca
I have had two clients act this way, both women. One would make lewd comments a lot. I work from home and at times my wife and daughter were home.
One would comments whenever I put her into certain positions. Quadrapeds were a nono foe a while. This was when I first started and I desperdately needed the client. I just ignored her comments, and to this day she is my best client.
Another client I have makes noise like she is having an orgasm. Again I ignored it and it went away.
It didnt cause me stress, so that is where my situation differs from yours. Again as mentioned you have to weigh the client/stressor v.s. money. If you can put up with it great, if not move on. Good luck either way.
What it was is that chick was just like arnold...the pump was better than cumming! Seriously good thoughts. Like I posted above he has gotten better much like your situation. I will keep him if he remains respectful like he has the last few sessions.
__________________
"Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity."
-Seneca
CE...that is great news. You took control of the session and ultimately "demanded" respect from your client simply by changing your demeanor. The important thing now is hold the reigns. DOn't ease back too much. You can joke with him, but maintain a professional distance. Encourage him to work hard and his results will soon follow.
I think this situation...(which is not totally uncommon) will help you grow as a professional. You handled it well.
CE...that is great news. You took control of the session and ultimately "demanded" respect from your client simply by changing your demeanor. The important thing now is hold the reigns. DOn't ease back too much. You can joke with him, but maintain a professional distance. Encourage him to work hard and his results will soon follow.
I think this situation...(which is not totally uncommon) will help you grow as a professional. You handled it well.
Thanks John, I'm happy with how it turned out(So far). I will do as you say and keep a "professional" slant to the relationship. Thanks everyone who helped. I appreciate the responses and this thread is going to help a lot of people starting out!
__________________
"Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity."
-Seneca
AWESOME CE! He could probably sense he was making you uncomfortable and he knew he was acting inappropriately. I hope things keep going in this manner and who knows...he could turn out to be your best client!
__________________ "If you love what you do, you'll never have to work a day in your life." Visit my blog:"Outside the Box" Training!
You got off easy this time... I sort of wish you would have had to verbally stand your ground. It would have been a great learning experience for you.
That being said, your energy with your clients does provide a guide for them... They read it and follow it. If you are professional you can even be in their personal space without them misreading it.
Hhahahah this stuff is great to read! better than a book. I would recommend that you always say you are in a relationship. Flirting never killed anyone tho so play along.
Dealing with Flirty Clients
People are people. I have a gay brother and have gay friends and I am very used to the "stereotypical gay male" stuff. Guys are guys, I guess. Okay, I guess it goes for women too, because I have had numerous "seemingly-non-gay" female clients come on to me. Engaged...married...you name it. Yeah, of course i've had guy clients hit on me too. What sucks is that you're there to do your JOB and in no way are you seeking anything aside from that, but a client has other intentions. Personally, situations like this make me feel like a piece of meat, scuzzy, and extremely uncomfortable.
"He thinks I'm magically going to start liking penis. I figure if it hasnt happened in 29 years it ain't happenin'."
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