This past summer, I was contacted by a woman wanting to train with me. She mentioned she was running for Congress, so I of course realized this could be a "plus," as she could possibly know a lot of people who would want to also train with me. In an email prior to our first session she mentioned that she did website design and would also be interested in possibly trading out services. I didn't really think too much about that because in the past i'd realized that kinda thing didn't work for me. So, I printed up a "new client" packet and even made a special "package" option for her, which I presented after we were done training. Off the bat, I realized this was a bad gig because #1, she was running way late, and #2, she talked about her issues and divorce the entire time we worked out. I felt more like a shrink than her trainer. I know people need to talk and vent and that's okay, but she spilled waaaay too much in this first session. Anyhow, we got done and she had pretty much decided that she was trading out with me for a website. Against my gut feeling, I just went with it because I did need a new website, and I figured because she seemed to know a bunch of people, that could be a good thing.
Flash forward...six sessions later, I had pretty much had it. I went out of town and got back and didn't make an effort to contact her because it seemed I ALWAYS had to contact her to schedule. I didn't talk to her for a month or so, and it was beginning to piss me off because here i'd given her six sessions and I had nothing. After our last session we actually sat down and talked about the site and stuff, so I had assumed she'd been working on it.
Not the case. That was August and I have contacted her a few times via email and she's led me on, telling me she's done work on it, but I haven't seen anything. I asked her to show me what she'd done already and she didn't reply. She obviously is jerking me around and i'm aggravated.
So, i'm going to contact her and let her know exactly how I feel...tactfully, of course. I have a non-practicing lawyer client who I guess I could throw in the mix if I had to? I am the world's worst at being a bitch. Ugh. I hate feeling like i'm being the a**hole but SHE OWES ME $400. That's how I feel. I don't want to do business with her...I don't want her name on my website...I don't want to see her or talk to her again...I just want my money.
Anyone else been in a bind like this?
__________________ "If you love what you do, you'll never have to work a day in your life." Visit my blog:"Outside the Box" Training!
I always request an "outline" or "plan of action" before you start giving out your services. I typically don't like to barter unless it is stuff I really need. Currently, I only barter with my massage therapist. I train her, she massages me. She knows me, I know her. Period. New clients...I never trust their bargaining and ALWAYS make them pay up front. Subsequent sessions may be up for barter if I feel they are trustworthy and I actually "need" them.
For instance, I have joint ventures online that want, want, want...but I ask them to give me an "outline" of their product before I actually put in the time and effort for a contribution. When I see the "framing" of a product or trade-off, then I start the effort.
You should contact this lady and hit her up for the $400. If you wait any longer, your argument will lose steam (if it hasn't already
I emailed her this afternoon. I believe the last time I contacted her was three weeks ago. I tactfully told her how I felt and that I am tired of feeling i'm getting the run-around. I also put in there that we all have "life issues" and this has never stopped me from doing good business with my clients. I'm just tired of having to think about it. Lesson learned, ya know? Ugh. I expect her to pay up, but if she doesn't, then I guess i'll chalk it up to experience. She has made herself look like a fool and I would assume that if she cared about her business, she would do the right thing. In the future should this kinda thing come up again, I am much better prepared to handle it thanks to this ordeal!
Like I always say, life is about learning!
__________________ "If you love what you do, you'll never have to work a day in your life." Visit my blog:"Outside the Box" Training!
So she got something and didn't pay for it. Sounds like she'll fit right in with the other Congresspeople.
Seriously, that's a pretty raw deal for you. I hope you can collect on it.
__________________ The trick is in what one emphasizes. We either make ourselves miserable, or we make ourselves happy. The amount of work is the same. -- Carlos Castaneda
Devalue your services and they will devalue your importance. Technically though you don't seem to have ground to stand on. I would let it go, call it a day, and lesson learned.
even with people you know, it is always a good idea to draw up an agreement so you both know what you are getting nad what is expected. In your post you did not say anything about what she had specifically agreed to do (and by when) Very little contact/input from you (it seems from your post) so I can see how she let is slide.
I like to believe most people are decent, and if approached in a non-confrontational way, are willing to be reasonable. I would suggest a soft approach because even if nothing happens (no web site) you have taken the high ground (an learned a lesson).
__________________
Peter
After all, diamonds are a girl's best friend…
Leigh - that's exactly how I feel...like she doesn't view my services as worth anything. Initially she seemed gung-ho and had all these ideas for pitching the site, promoting me, etc. It honestly felt "too good to be true" although I wanted to believe someone in the public eye (again, she was running for Congress) wouldn't screw me.
Diamondpete - you are right...she is obviously in the wrong but I could have taken measures to prevent this from happening. I regret not having drawn up a contract of sorts. The "CYA" (cover your ass) principle is always a good thing! The constant feeling of having to ask someone for something you were supposed to get is DRAINING and ridiculous. She was noncompliant from the start, and I am much better off without her. She is one of the few clients i've had to "fire."
We shall see. I wasn't rude in my email to her but haven't heard back yet...I am one of those types who is I guess a bit naive in thinking most people aren't going to do me wrong. I do get proven wrong here and there but it doesn't change my belief that with the bad comes the good!
__________________ "If you love what you do, you'll never have to work a day in your life." Visit my blog:"Outside the Box" Training!
Yeah I feel for you there - this industry is unique b/c there are a lot of gray areas in dealing with people - Like you said, life is a lesson and you learn - Next time, you'll be surprised in yourself because you'll see it coming from a mile away -
This is true, this is true!
I have felt soooo relieved just having sent her that email. Have I heard back from her? Still...no. Oh well! I don't have to have that "issue" sapping my energy anymore!
Yay!
__________________ "If you love what you do, you'll never have to work a day in your life." Visit my blog:"Outside the Box" Training!
My approach to this field was forged early in my career by being completely taken advantage of by a couple of women. You know the saying, "fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me." (Or as GW said it, "fool me once, shame on me, fool me twice and... uh... uh... twice the fool shall be.")
I demanded up front payment for sessions from that point forward, and I didn't mind being pretty direct about it. People responded very well to it so I built my foundation on that directness from that point forward.
Life is all about learning!
Those who want "special deals" simply don't value what you have to offer. That's how I feel at this point. It's the pricetag they are more concerned with. This is why (although I obviously was taken advantage of by this specific woman) I DO NOT apologize about my rates. I don't offer discounts. I don't discount what I do. In the future, should another "trade-out" offer arise, I will have a clear and concise plan laid out.
__________________ "If you love what you do, you'll never have to work a day in your life." Visit my blog:"Outside the Box" Training!
I think a lot of people assume that a trainer really isn't losing anything if they dont get paid. Like the old saying goes... 'Time is money' and when you are a trainer all you really have to sell is your time (and knowledge). Some people just dont understand the value in that.
Hi Steve!
Time is definitely money! I'm going to stop trying to calculate it for myself, but i'd venture to guess that if most of us got paid for the "unpaid" hours we spend working on programs for clients, researching, etc...we'd all be retiring pretty early!
This brings me to a question - i've been working on exercise programs for a friend long-distance. She sent me a big check to cover things, and recently told me to let her know when she owed me more. I have no clue how much to charge her for what we're doing. We meet in person once or twice a month and go thru a session, and aside from this I update her program weekly and touch base with her frequently. I don't know how much to charge for anything aside from the one-on-one training. I am so freakin' picky about things that I actually shoot my own vids/pics and use those, along with my own descriptions/rundown of program/etc. It can be quite time-consuming although i've managed to amass a substantial "library" of my own exercise pics/vids/explanations. Anyone have input on this kinda thing?
__________________ "If you love what you do, you'll never have to work a day in your life." Visit my blog:"Outside the Box" Training!
My approach to this field was forged early in my career by being completely taken advantage of by a couple of women. You know the saying, "fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me." (Or as GW said it, "fool me once, shame on me, fool me twice and... uh... uh... twice the fool shall be.")
I demanded up front payment for sessions from that point forward, and I didn't mind being pretty direct about it. People responded very well to it so I built my foundation on that directness from that point forward.
As a customer, I prefer the direct approach. With most people in the service industry I have to be the direct one about money. I would prefer it the other way around. It tells me that you are confident and value your services which makes me happier to pay for them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarah Rippel
Hi Steve!
Time is definitely money! I'm going to stop trying to calculate it for myself, but i'd venture to guess that if most of us got paid for the "unpaid" hours we spend working on programs for clients, researching, etc...we'd all be retiring pretty early!
This brings me to a question - i've been working on exercise programs for a friend long-distance. She sent me a big check to cover things, and recently told me to let her know when she owed me more. I have no clue how much to charge her for what we're doing. We meet in person once or twice a month and go thru a session, and aside from this I update her program weekly and touch base with her frequently. I don't know how much to charge for anything aside from the one-on-one training. I am so freakin' picky about things that I actually shoot my own vids/pics and use those, along with my own descriptions/rundown of program/etc. It can be quite time-consuming although i've managed to amass a substantial "library" of my own exercise pics/vids/explanations. Anyone have input on this kinda thing?
Hard to say exactly due to the many possible variables but 200 is probably a good ballpark figure for that sort of service. I am speaking more from a client point of view and what I would be willing to pay for that as opposed to a trainer's point of view and how much time you spend.
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The BIGGER I get the smaller you look
Thanks kfisherx!
Being able to provide some sort of online "training" is something I feel I should be able to offer, although it's by no means the way I prefer to "roll!" Still, I need to nail down a rate and get a system in place.
Once again, always learning!
__________________ "If you love what you do, you'll never have to work a day in your life." Visit my blog:"Outside the Box" Training!
I have though about online training, and in fact have done it to a small extent. I have a hard time getting people to buy in since many have expressed that they know they will not comply. I also struggled with the marketing side of things as well.
I have though about online training, and in fact have done it to a small extent. I have a hard time getting people to buy in since many have expressed that they know they will not comply. I also struggled with the marketing side of things as well.
This is the main problem...compliance. As trainers, we know most people won't succeed with this form of "training." It's rare to find an individual who can stay on track without regular interaction. Marketing...ah...don't we all love it
__________________ "If you love what you do, you'll never have to work a day in your life." Visit my blog:"Outside the Box" Training!
This is the main problem...compliance. As trainers, we know most people won't succeed with this form of "training." It's rare to find an individual who can stay on track without regular interaction. Marketing...ah...don't we all love it
This is interesting and completely opposite what I am experiencing right now. I have found that I am more held accountable by my internet nutritionist/trainer than I was by my local trainers. My local trainers only saw me 2 times a week for 1 hour and did not give me explicit details on what to do for the rest of the time I had. Sure they gave me some guidelines here and there but we did not regularly check up on them or on what I did in all my free time. Also they were never really able to challenge me in that 1 hour that they had with me. Don't get me wrong. They could make me cry in that 1 hour timeslot but still it was 2 total hours for the whole week so as soon as I recovered I had plenty of energy to screw around.
My internet guru (on the other hand) has me working this HUGE volume training program that takes me around 2 hours per session to finish. So he has me working on his training plan nearly 8 hours a week. In that time I am lifting hard and heavy. Generally, I am too physically beat to screw around outside of his program. I am also doing my first ever rest week and not complaining about the time off (if that is any indication). His training program is also the frirst program that has made me get serious about my sleep habits.
In addition to the training plan he also has me on a very strict nutrition plan. While there is flexibility in the plan to some degree the timings of meals around my workouts and the macros and calories are all laid out for me in great detail. It is much more detailed and subsequently more strict than the guidelines I was given by my in-person trainers. Of course I am getting much better results with these increased efforts in training and nutrition so it is all good.
I have to check in with him every single day on my training and food compliance. If I fall off either plan he knows about it right away and corrections are made right away. There is no lag between training sessions nor is there a possibility that he won't check up on these things. It is an every single day report in requirement. In my book it is WAY, WAY harder to dance around his plan than the others.
__________________
The BIGGER I get the smaller you look
This is interesting and completely opposite what I am experiencing right now. I have found that I am more held accountable by my internet nutritionist/trainer than I was by my local trainers. My local trainers only saw me 2 times a week for 1 hour and did not give me explicit details on what to do for the rest of the time I had. Sure they gave me some guidelines here and there but we did not regularly check up on them or on what I did in all my free time. Also they were never really able to challenge me in that 1 hour that they had with me. Don't get me wrong. They could make me cry in that 1 hour timeslot but still it was 2 total hours for the whole week so as soon as I recovered I had plenty of energy to screw around.
My internet guru (on the other hand) has me working this HUGE volume training program that takes me around 2 hours per session to finish. So he has me working on his training plan nearly 8 hours a week. In that time I am lifting hard and heavy. Generally, I am too physically beat to screw around outside of his program. I am also doing my first ever rest week and not complaining about the time off (if that is any indication). His training program is also the frirst program that has made me get serious about my sleep habits.
In addition to the training plan he also has me on a very strict nutrition plan. While there is flexibility in the plan to some degree the timings of meals around my workouts and the macros and calories are all laid out for me in great detail. It is much more detailed and subsequently more strict than the guidelines I was given by my in-person trainers. Of course I am getting much better results with these increased efforts in training and nutrition so it is all good.
I have to check in with him every single day on my training and food compliance. If I fall off either plan he knows about it right away and corrections are made right away. There is no lag between training sessions nor is there a possibility that he won't check up on these things. It is an every single day report in requirement. In my book it is WAY, WAY harder to dance around his plan than the others.
That is AWESOME! You have obviously hooked up with the right peeps AND you have to give yourself more credit. I am guessing that you're not a lazy-ass! You hold yourself accountable to yourself. Are you training for a specific event? Kudos for you regardless if that's the case! If I had more people wanting to do "online training" and they had your drive, i'd most certainly look into it more as an option. The one client i'm working with in this manner seems to be doing quite well, which is encouraging.
__________________ "If you love what you do, you'll never have to work a day in your life." Visit my blog:"Outside the Box" Training!
Gosh Sarah. From this and something I'm dealing with, I learned if people are depressed, and acting very irregular, they are more likely to do things like this. I know you can feel empowered knowing that you could picket her until she gives in, but that will definitely result in a restraining order and mental stress for you, and is definitely not worth 400 dollars. So did you like spending 400 dollars for a lesson? lol jp... but really? Was it worth it? lol. jp jp jp
Gosh Sarah. From this and something I'm dealing with, I learned if people are depressed, and acting very irregular, they are more likely to do things like this. I know you can feel empowered knowing that you could picket her until she gives in, but that will definitely result in a restraining order and mental stress for you, and is definitely not worth 400 dollars. So did you like spending 400 dollars for a lesson? lol jp... but really? Was it worth it? lol. jp jp jp
Trust me, lesson learned! Even if she HAD been working on a website for me, I wouldn't want to follow through with it b/c I don't want any ties to her. The situation has raised several issues for me to think about...one of which is the fact that I wish there was a way I could "pre-screen" people prior to meeting them, to determine if they aren't fit to be a client of mine. At this point in my career, I am not wanting to take on clients just because I want more clients. I don't want flaky people! I want people who WANT it! In fact, I touched on this in my blog today. (http://fitprosarah.blogspot.c om) I know we all have our own issues, and that exercise is most definitely something that can help empower people and allow them to better work through their issues...but...sheesh...i'm too old to "play psychologist" like I did with this particular client. Hindsight is 20/20. She doesn't need a trainer, she needs help. She also wanted to know waaaaay too much about my personal life. Not cool. I admit I made the mistake of not cutting her off from the beginning.
And I haven't heard a WORD from her. NOTHING. All of it is rather humorous to me now. My horns had to come out (tactfully) and it was awesome. A tremendous window opened after putting an end to that fiasco. It was really liberating!
__________________ "If you love what you do, you'll never have to work a day in your life." Visit my blog:"Outside the Box" Training!
That is AWESOME! You have obviously hooked up with the right peeps AND you have to give yourself more credit. I am guessing that you're not a lazy-ass! You hold yourself accountable to yourself. Are you training for a specific event? Kudos for you regardless if that's the case! If I had more people wanting to do "online training" and they had your drive, i'd most certainly look into it more as an option. The one client i'm working with in this manner seems to be doing quite well, which is encouraging.
Perhaps I am being naive... I just recently got certified and am not training a lot of folks, but in my life experience I find that all people want to succeed... It is just a matter of me giving them the right tools to do well. If someone hires you for internet training or training my guess is that their intentions are to do well. If your program is laid out so that the person can do well then you have a win/win.
Yes, I am disciplined and probably easier to work with than most, but people like Leigh and Alan have large and very succesful consultation businesses and work with people all over the world. These are people with varying degrees of discipline. My guess is that they have systems in place that provide for all different sorts of people not just the very disciplined.
For me (and for many others) this sort of training works on many levels better than in person training. It will be interesting to see what you discover RE this as you get more into your first e-customer.
Oh and yes I am training for body recomp (ie: bodybuilding) and hoping to hit the stage one time or two before I am too old to stand up straight and strike a pose. LOL!
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The BIGGER I get the smaller you look
Perhaps I am being naive... I just recently got certified and am not training a lot of folks, but in my life experience I find that all people want to succeed... It is just a matter of me giving them the right tools to do well. If someone hires you for internet training or training my guess is that their intentions are to do well. If your program is laid out so that the person can do well then you have a win/win.
Yes, I am disciplined and probably easier to work with than most, but people like Leigh and Alan have large and very succesful consultation businesses and work with people all over the world. These are people with varying degrees of discipline. My guess is that they have systems in place that provide for all different sorts of people not just the very disciplined.
For me (and for many others) this sort of training works on many levels better than in person training. It will be interesting to see what you discover RE this as you get more into your first e-customer.
Oh and yes I am training for body recomp (ie: bodybuilding) and hoping to hit the stage one time or two before I am too old to stand up straight and strike a pose. LOL!
Very, very good point! Now you got my brain workin'. As humans, we are programmed to survive...aka succeed...each of us has different "tools" for success...some people need more help than others. Therefore, the mark of an effective fitness professional would be the ability to recognize what "tools" an individual lacks, provide them with said tools, and at the same time capitalize on the individual's strengths. Ahhh...deep thoughts! I feel the need to blog now!
I'm excited for you! I have the feeling you'll hit the stage more than once or twice! That's awesome!
__________________ "If you love what you do, you'll never have to work a day in your life." Visit my blog:"Outside the Box" Training!
I wish there was a way I could "pre-screen" people prior to meeting them, to determine if they aren't fit to be a client of mine. At this point in my career, I am not wanting to take on clients just because I want more clients. I don't want flaky people! I want people who WANT it!
There is a really easy way to do this, just tell the truth. Never sugar coat, never tell them what they want to hear, you aren't their cuddle monkey nor is that the role you should play.
People need a leader and they need to know that someone is in charge. If you don't have that from the beginning you never will and that client is a just going to waste their money. My clients aren't late, they do what I say, or they are gone. Demand it and then all your clients become dream clients.
Why I don't "trade out" :(
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