Okay, I just replied to a "i want to be a trainer" guy's post on the Art of Strength forums (have fallen in love with the AOS approach to kettlebell training), and of course was long-winded and now i'm worried that I may come across as an elitist-trainer-snob. He was asking if he needed a personal training cert or just the AOS cert to work with people. FYI the AOS cert is a weekend workshop. I may be wrong in this, but it seems there are lots of people out there getting kettlebell certified and then going and training people...without any other prior fitness industry experience. Is it wrong for me to think this isn't necessarily the best approach?
This was a response he got:
If you plan to train people in their homes, then just go straight to AOS. As far as insurance goes - it's easy! You can just google "personal trainer insurance" and you'll find a ton of stuff. You can find it as cheap as $100/year for a million bucks coverage. Is it important to know anatomy and physiology? Well, to be honest, in 8 years of personal training, I've NEVER had to use any of that, even though the other certs focus on it a lot. With AOS, you will learn A LOT about how the body works. Just by learning to teach the Turkish get-up, you will know how to correct imbalances, instabilities, and weaknesses. I hope this helps. Let me know if you have any other questions. I will try my best to help!
"Never had to use anatomy and physiology?" WTF? Anyhow...here is my response:
Hi Keith! (be ready to read, lol)!
Congrats on your decision! I can honestly say that being a Fitness Professional is a blast IF it's what you should be doing, and it sounds like it is for you!
With that being said, i've been training clients since I was 19 years old...over 13 years now. I have multiple certs and a BS in Exercise Science. I even got a Pilates cert...yeah, I know...lol. I am not certified thru NASM, however, I feel that they are one of the best CPT certs out there, especially for those coming into the industry without a prior education in Exercise Science. I have worked for several gyms, chiros, and a studio. I can honestly say that the "big box" scene isn't where I need to be anymore. Back in the day, though, it served its purpose, as it allowed me to "get my feet wet" with many different types of clients. Over the years, i've been able to train people of all fitness levels, ages, backgrounds, etc...and have been able to work with special conditions such as Bell's Palsy, Fibromyalgia, pre- and post-natal, morbidly obese, diabetes, chronic fatigue, Crohn's, etc. I am stopping there because my brain is tired and i'm sure you get my point. I believe these experiences have been invaluable to me as a Fitness Professional. There's no way I would have been able to get so much experience had I not worked for a "big box" gym, and there's no way I could have been able to get to the point i'm at now without having been a slave to the "system." Oh, the meager wages!
Nowadays, i'm self-employed and work with my clients in their homes as well as outdoors, and i'm planning on opening my own studio next year. I don't advertise...my clients advertise for me. I have found my own niche in training clients in-home, and I feel there is a great need everywhere for such a service. This is why i'm a little apprehensive to jump into all the craziness and bills that a studio entails, BUT for me it's my goal and has been a dream for 12 years, so...can't fight it!
I am planning on getting my AOS cert this upcoming year. I believe it's the way I need to go as far as kettlebell certification. Just as with Personal Training certs, you have to find the one that is in-line with your approach, beliefs, etc. I'm with Njama, i'm not knocking the AOS cert in any way, but I feel it's not the only qualification one should have. A medical doctor doesn't go to a weekend workshop and get certified to perform plastic surgery, then go out and establish a practice. They spend years and years working up to it. Obviously this is a bit different for trainers, as anyone can get online and pay $25 and get a cracker-jack cert in an hour (complete with certificate)! My point is that knowledge is power, and if you look at the most respected professionals in this industry, they have spent years and years on their education and in the trenches working with clients...and are STILL working with clients. If you're wanting to train people, the only way you're gonna get good at it is to TRAIN PEOPLE! You're not going to ever know everything...you're going to learn along the way...if you get complacent, you're gonna end up falling behind, because what i've learned over the years is that there is no one "best" way of doing things, and that what works for one client doesn't do diddly squat for another. You safely apply techniques that will get your clients from point A to point B. If the technique doesn't work, then change it. I spend countless unpaid hours reading up on things and improving my working knowledge so that I can better serve my clients.
I look at the AOS cert as another AWESOME tool in my "trainer's toolbox." No way in hell i'd put myself out there as a "kettlebell trainer" without it. In this "toolbox" are also modalities such as Active Isolated stretching, myofascial release, core (ugh, overplayed term) stabilization techniques, Gray Cook's Functional Movement Screen, the NASM "OPT" method, ankle/hip/thoracic mobilizers, etc...even stuff like BOSU drills that I feel are somewhat "trendy" and borderline gimmicky are in my toolbox...because I feel it's important to have a broad range of tools from which to pick from...bringing me back to my point - one approach isn't going to work for everyone.
I'm not a trainer who spits out big scientific words to my clients...for I feel that many who do so are just doin' it to impress people. My clients could give a rat's ass what a sternocliedomastoid muscle is. They just know it's tight and they have headaches and want me to help them.
So, if you don't have a working knowledge of functional anatomy, can you be a good trainer? No. No way. Not these days. The days of "bodypart training" and just knowing specific exercises are long gone. Obviously you're onto this, or you wouldn't be a kettlebell nut! With that being said, do I feel you need a college degree to be an awesome trainer? No, I mean, i've never had to hook a client up to a spirometer or perform hydrostatic weighing on anyone, lol! A degree is a plus, though...I mean, it's credentials you can't just pay for and receive overnight. I feel i've learned a hell of a lot more post-grad but it's been because I WANTED it more. I graduated from college and just wanted to be done with it. Who would have known i'd go back 2 years later trying to get into med school? I MISSED LEARNING and I knew I wanted to do MORE. Well, "more" meant not throwing away my passion and calling as a trainer...it meant doing everything in my power to enrich my knowledge, skills, and experience, and I can honestly say that I do this every day.
I realize i'm really long-winded and I hope none of this came across as anything less than helpful and upbeat! As you can tell, i'm extremely passionate about this kinda stuff! I'm going to end this NOW because I need to work out and I don't want to keep blabbing your eyes off!
Yours in Health,
Sarah
__________________ "If you love what you do, you'll never have to work a day in your life." Visit my blog:"Outside the Box" Training!
Seems to me you spent too much time bragging about what you've done/are doing with some useful information in between. Which I guess would have been fine if he was considering being your client, but peer-to-peer I would have stopped reading.
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I did not read the thread/post you refer to (if fact I cannot find it, even by searching - link?)
, but…A great post. Since you are new here as well, welcome!!!
One thing that you may find that is unique about this site is that members generally assume that other members are trying to be helpful and read things the "good way" as opposed to trying to read the posts in a "bad way".
Look forward to your posts.
Cheers
Peter
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Peter
After all, diamonds are a girl's best friend…
I guess it just got me revved-up because more often than not it seems people assume that when they get into the industry, they should start at the top...and as y'all know, ya gotta work your way up there. There's a lot more to it than a lot of people realize, and I guess I just got a little amped! I'm the furthest from a braggart...I was trying to prove my point and perhaps I overshot it...just a little? lol
__________________ "If you love what you do, you'll never have to work a day in your life." Visit my blog:"Outside the Box" Training!
I'm the furthest from a braggart...I was trying to prove my point and perhaps I overshot it...just a little? lol
hard to say - we don't know the vibe of that board, your history with that poster (or others' history), how many times the same question has been asked/answered/answer ignored, how much one is expected to establish creditials with each post vs. a known reputation on a site, etc.
I'm a relative "newbie" to posting on forums...i'm not one to get into "smack talk" and whatnot, and it seems so many do that...not here though...any smack is thrown out there for good reason, and i respect that. Come to think of it, my reason for not being an avid forum-poster is the same as some of my friends' reasons for not being avid texters...it can be hard to get your point across and with the feelings you're wanting to express!
__________________ "If you love what you do, you'll never have to work a day in your life." Visit my blog:"Outside the Box" Training!
Seems to me you spent too much time bragging about what you've done/are doing with some useful information in between. Which I guess would have been fine if he was considering being your client, but peer-to-peer I would have stopped reading.
Ditto. I read your entire note, and I think it could have been summed up in a sentence or two-- the length of message that he might be more inclined to hear.
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So what is Anthony charging for the weekend AOS cert?
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Working "hard," or the perception of working hard, doesn't really mean anything. Sweating, vomiting, and breathing hard could be a good workout or a tropical disease kicking in.-Dan John
Sarah,
You are such an elitist snob...heheheheh..just kidding...
I think if you took the time to write that lenthy response, the readers should appreciate it. Good response.
Whats this crap that you don't need to know anatomy?? I hear this all the time from my class students...the point is you don't learn anatomy to share with your clients, its to reassure that you know what you are talking about when you are explaining something.
Weekend AOS cert is $1800 and this enables you to open your own Punch gym. I would LOVE to do it...but the cost...I can't wrap my head around it...if one was to open a studio in conjunction with Anthony, i'm sure it would be way better than going it alone though, so who knows...
I respect Anthony and really like his grassroots slant on things, and he's dead-set on making sure people are qualified to instruct others. This is obviously a good thing because kettlebells in the wrong hands can be very dangerous. They are obviously one of the "trendy" things right now, despite the fact that they have been around forever, and I believe they are here to stay. Are they for everyone? No. Anthony's style incorporates bodyweight training and he's brought back the "old school" barbells and dumbbells. Now, if I had a working knowledge of his system and that's it, and then figured i'd be able to go out and train anyone...would that be ignorant of me? Yes! So, in my opinion, no one in their right mind could assume they have covered all their bases just with this one cert. Not every client is gonna want to (or need to) follow this style of training, and we must remember that the client comes first...we can't force them to do things they don't want to do, regardless of how much we believe in said system.
And yes...saying a trainer doesn't need to know anything about anatomy is flat-out asinine...it sure would clear a lot out of my brain, though... maybe i've been doing things wrong this whole time? jk
__________________ "If you love what you do, you'll never have to work a day in your life." Visit my blog:"Outside the Box" Training!
Yeah $1800 is steep for a licensing/cert. What sort of support do they offer?
The American Kettlebell Club and IKFF certs are both $1000 (and with the AKC you get a set of competition bells). The AKC doesn't really offer anything as far as opening your own gym but I know alot of AKC coaches that are running successful facilities offering group KB classes after. The IKFF (Cotter) offers more support business-wise and high quality instruction.
Anthony certainly has a good gig going now with his Perform Better speaking gigs, workshops at $500 a pop, and these weekend certs. Hitting the market at the right time.
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Working "hard," or the perception of working hard, doesn't really mean anything. Sweating, vomiting, and breathing hard could be a good workout or a tropical disease kicking in.-Dan John
Know the most frustrating thing? I live in Louisiana...it seems every conference/workshop is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay far away. So, in addition to the $ for the cert, there's more expenses for travel/lodging. I realized that coming up in January is an IKFF workshop in Dallas. Steve Cotter also (obviously) knows his stuff. I have family in Dallas, so this would obviously be a more cost-effective option if I decided I wanted to go ahead and get certified in the next few months. Catch is, it's JANUARY...and i'm gonna be insanely busy, just like almost every other trainer out there.
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I have no idea what support is included in the $1800 cert...the certification workshop is touted as a necessary step towards opening your own Punch Gym. I have no idea how much they help you, business-wise, etc. I have no idea of the franchise fees that may go along with this. I would like to think that they would bend over backwards to help someone start-up an extension of their legacy (for lack of better words). Opening a studio is a BIG step, and the last thing I want to do is tank, lol! Anthony has obviously done things the right way. All I know is that I emailed for more info a few weeks ago and have yet to hear anything. I could give them a holler again, but after meeting with a potential investor last week i'm debating that. More and more i'm thinking that it may not be the best thing for me, to be affiliated with a specific "entity." After all, I am my own entity!
__________________ "If you love what you do, you'll never have to work a day in your life." Visit my blog:"Outside the Box" Training!
Know the most frustrating thing? I live in Louisiana...it seems every conference/workshop is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay far away. So, in addition to the $ for the cert, there's more expenses for travel/lodging. I realized that coming up in January is an IKFF workshop in Dallas. Steve Cotter also (obviously) knows his stuff. I have family in Dallas, so this would obviously be a more cost-effective option if I decided I wanted to go ahead and get certified in the next few months. Catch is, it's JANUARY...and i'm gonna be insanely busy, just like almost every other trainer out there.
You may want to check out an interview I did with Lauren Brooks I while back - She's a very successful trainer who uses kettlebells as her niche/method - I think her contact info is on that post too if you want to look her up - Personal Trainer Lauren Brooks | Trainers: DUMP THE GYM NOW!!!
As far as I know most Punch locations are existing gyms, such as Cosgrove's Results Fitness, that licensed the name to use with their KB group classes. I'm not sure if Punch does anything to help you start up a new business.
I don't think getting KB "certified" really means jack. There are kb certified instructors at my gym that are beyond horrible. Quality instruction means everything.
Cotter and Blackburn of IKFF and the AKC team (Valery Fedorenko (world champion in kettlebell sport) Cate Imes, Marty Farrell etc... are top notch. Both Cotter and Blackburn continue to study, train, and compete with Fedorenko. Mike Mahler, Steve Maxwell, and I believe DiLuglio have attended Fedorenko's workshops as well. Even Pavel has consulted with Fedorenko as well. Not that Fedorenko is the be all end all of KB knowledge, but that should tell you something.
In my opinion you'd be better off going to the IKFF in Dallas. It's over a weekend so it shouldn't interfere with business and you'll come away with a wealth of knowledge.
I'm biased, but have done RKC-style certs (Art of Strength is in this mold) and find them lacking. Plenty of good ideas but they don't touch on alot of training ideas and techniques lifters in Russia/Eastern Europe use (competitive lifters there are on a different level) - this is where the IKFF and AKC are strong.
With the IKFF you'll get a nice blend of the (real) Russian training ideas, but also some from Pavel's RKC, and martial arts/yoga based mobility and bodyweight training.
Now I hope I'm not coming across as snobby
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Working "hard," or the perception of working hard, doesn't really mean anything. Sweating, vomiting, and breathing hard could be a good workout or a tropical disease kicking in.-Dan John
No, not snobby at all!
HELPFUL!!!! Very very helpful. I have been thinking about the upcoming Dallas certification and am now trying to figure out how I can come up with a grand over the holidays, lol! Maybe I should tell everyone who's been asking me what I want for Christmas to just contribute to the "certification fund"! Thank you for opening my eyes a little bit more!
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I hear you - $1K is no small deal. But as far as KB orgs go and what you get for your money the IKFF is at the top of the heap. Great group of people to network with too.
You could look around the IKFF site, Steve's full kontact site, and the Iron Garm forum for more info.
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Working "hard," or the perception of working hard, doesn't really mean anything. Sweating, vomiting, and breathing hard could be a good workout or a tropical disease kicking in.-Dan John
My gripe with the term "core" is that has just been used over and over again. It was one of those buzzwords, like "functional training," so i'm just tired of it. I do tell people to "brace their abs" because there is really nothing more direct I can think of, but I also remind them to tighten their glutes at the same time, as well as "keep good posture." What I realize is that if people truly understand how "good posture" feels, they won't have to be reminded of any of these. I like Verstegen's "pillar" term! Now i'm thinking I need a "catch phrase" of my own!
__________________ "If you love what you do, you'll never have to work a day in your life." Visit my blog:"Outside the Box" Training!
I hope this didn't come across as "snobby"...
maybe i've been doing things wrong this whole time? jk
I could give them a holler again, but after meeting with a potential investor last week i'm debating that. More and more i'm thinking that it may not be the best thing for me, to be affiliated with a specific "entity." After all, I am my own entity!
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