I have a pretty unusual dilemma. Maybe you can come up with something John. I own a 7500 sq ft gym in suburban Philly. We are a well renowned gym in the strength community as a great place to train for strength, mainly strongman training. My problem is I really haven't been able to get anything going on the personal training end. Our gym is in a blue collar area and my clientele is 90% 20 something and male. I have tried to do about as much marketing as I can afford and the clients I have trained all have gotten great results. But my client stream has been sporadic. I know if I was in a "big box facility" I would do really well as a trainer but this is MY place, the gym itself has a great following, I own the bricks...basically I living every gym rat's dream.....except for the making money part. Maybe someone could help. I know my gym has a ton of potential.
Hi Steve....I'm not in the business, so this is coming from a client's perspective only! First take a look in Ginger's log at the videos on page 48 showing the gym she's going to be going to: GinnyLou Who's Training Log
I know that at my gym, some of the more cross-fit style training is getting really popular for both men and women. The sort of classes where everyone says they want to throw up at the end! And, the classes at Ginger's gym look really hardcore!! I would think if you could get some interest in a kick-ass class, you could get some additional/different business. Do you have female clients or want female clients? I know there are still those girls who want to throw barbie weights around, but trust me...there are a lot of us who WANT to be challenged and want to work out with real weights, not really into machines, and would welcome a kick-your-ass workout.
Steve, I took a look at your website (very impressive) and seems like you have a nice facility. I am going to go on a limb and say that maybe you are not attracting your typical PT client because the strongman dogma in the facility kinda overshadows those ladies and businessmen that would come in and drop $500-700. Your clientèle presently is a direct result of what is "visible" at the club. I think if you can reduce the "intimidation" factor and market to a lesser extreme population, you will get a better turn out.
There is nothing wrong with your style of training. Let's get that straight...but you have to think about getting people in the doors first--and then get them to adapt your style. Sort of the bait and hook scheme...
I would think about making a separate section (close off) for standard "lifting" and keep the strong man stuff separate. Again, those blue collar clients are your passionate and loyal, but when dollars become the topic of discussion at the diner table, usually PT and the like get cut out of the budget. If you want to attract white collared clients, cut down on the intimidation and market the facility to a more conventional PT studio. It's not selling out...but again, get them into the door...make them "buy" into your system, and then train them the way you know is most effective.
Oh yeah John, I forgot the most important part.....I don't want to have to wimp my gym down at all.....ha ha. Yeah, I know that if I softened it up a little I could maybe attract a different client base. We have three gyms within 5 miles from us. One is a big bally's (that hates weightlifters) a family health club, LA Fitness (which hates weight lifters) and a women's only establishment. I kind of want to grind out my niche as the only "real" gym. I have done ok for over 9 years but with just about zero personal training. Actually most of the training I do get paid to do is teaching people from other gyms the olympic lifts.
John, another problem I seem to have is I give away more of my training and tidbits of knowledge than I sell. As the owner and "face" of the gym I always feel it is my job to constantly help people. Maybe i'm just a softy and i have to admit even though I have been a student of training and have competed in every possible strength sport all over the world for 30 years I am very sheepish when it comes to asking people for money.
Miss Jane, I actually have kicked that idea around. One of my friends here just got his CSCS and is an amazing crossfit guy. We have talked about becoming an affiliate but then we found out there is already one in the same little town we are in??? Its down the road in somebody's garage. We will still trying to do something with crossfit.
A bit ago there was a thread about how basically the 1-on-1 pt thing is over in a lot of ways. That a trainer/owner would get more bang for his buck going with those bootcamp/basic training classes. Lower buy-in for the client, at only $20 (or whatever) a session, but with 8-12 people in your class that's ~200 (or whatever) for only one class, maybe 2-3 days a week.
This is, potentially, a great way for some people to go, if they have the space, or can get some space, to do such a thing. People "expect" all sorts of weird stuff at a bootcamp, so you need not pansyout your facility for it. People, of all sorts want to try these and be all "hardcore" so… *shrug*
Ya know, I tried the bootcamp thing. We tried with straight weightraining, some crossfit style and even one that used a lot of the strongman events that you see on TV but still there was no interest at all. I wanted to do something different than the standard bootcamp stuff you normally see. I'm just in a market that PT doesn't work in. I know I sound negative shooting all these ideas down but I have tried a lot of different things in the past 10 years here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aoife
(another non-pro here…fwiw)
A bit ago there was a thread about how basically the 1-on-1 pt thing is over in a lot of ways. That a trainer/owner would get more bang for his buck going with those bootcamp/basic training classes. Lower buy-in for the client, at only $20 (or whatever) a session, but with 8-12 people in your class that's ~200 (or whatever) for only one class, maybe 2-3 days a week.
This is, potentially, a great way for some people to go, if they have the space, or can get some space, to do such a thing. People "expect" all sorts of weird stuff at a bootcamp, so you need not pansyout your facility for it. People, of all sorts want to try these and be all "hardcore" so… *shrug*
I would do really well as a trainer but this is MY place, the gym itself has a great following, I own the bricks...basically I living every gym rat's dream.....except for the making money part. Maybe someone could help. I know my gym has a ton of potential.
Hey Steve - Sounds like you have a ton of experience and already have a selecting your niche market so you're half way there - I think you should really focus and start taking the marketing part of your business very seriously - That'll allow you attract the type of client that you prefer training and charge high rates -
Firstly, one one one personal training is not dead....if it were, I wouldn't be working right now. Group training is more profitable for facilities, but there are still markets for people that like individualized attention.
Back to Steve,
I know it seems like you are wussing out your club, but it is really marketing strategy. I am not asking you to put pink curtains up and start providing towels.
You can still market the facility by simply curtailing the emphasis on "strongman". If I were you, I would put together a program targeting women to achieve strength and fat loss. Possibly use kettle-bells in your marketing (women tend to not be so timid to KBs). Secondly, if you have a female on your team, ask her to be your spokesperson. Have her become the rep for your business. Most individuals take one look at you and think they are "not fit" or "big enuff" to workout with you, so your market becomes very narrow.
Funny you should say that John. I have recently hired a 44 year old woman who is really enthusiastic about the gym. I met her a few months ago as a result of her hiring me to help her with her powerlifting. She already knows more about a lot of the members in her first two weeks working here than I learned after knowing them for years. Its not that i'm not friendly its just that people take one look at me and assume they are about to be killed. So she has now become my PT saleswoman. She talks me up to everyone as a trainer so hopefully the word will get out that way.
One other thing John, I honestly don't like training most people. Housewives and business men may be most PTs bread and butter but I really have no interest in doing all that. I like to work with athletes and people into more serious stuff. I need to get over that and somehow become more enthusiastic about the regular folk. Of course, large amounts of cash might help that.
Now that I put that picture in my profile you can see why I have no clients.....my head is very scary. ha ha
Better to be bald and bad-assed than bald and lame.
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Originally Posted by John Izzo
Firstly, one one one personal training is not dead....if it were, I wouldn't be working right now. Group training is more profitable for facilities, but there are still markets for people that like individualized attention.
I didn't say it was dead, I said there was a thread that was about it being over.
One other thing John, I honestly don't like training most people. Housewives and business men may be most PTs bread and butter but I really have no interest in doing all that. I like to work with athletes and people into more serious stuff. I need to get over that and somehow become more enthusiastic about the regular folk. Of course, large amounts of cash might help that.
Actually, there is nothing wrong with choosing who you want to work with. It makes your job more enjoyable and fulfilling when you have clients (athletes or serious lifters) cooperating with your training methods. Make no apologies about it...I can't stand 25% of the people I train because they can't suck it up or they wuss out, but at the end of the day it is a J-O-B for those small few ...and a P-A-S-S-I-O-N for the other 75%.
I know what you mean about passion. I still have a huge amount of passion for my own training and competing schedule. I probably need to also get into to the mode of trying to care about my clients training as much as I do my own. That might be my biggest fault as a trainer.
Nobody I know really digs training all of their clients - that's just a part of the business.
As for your facility, there is some good advice here. The gym I train at (not the one I work at) has a ton of great equipment suited to serious training, but they also do great training the executive and housewife segment too. They do that by targeting their efforts toward that crowd - nothing more.
Encouraging serious lifting and running a successful training business are not mutually exclusive.
__________________
Working "hard," or the perception of working hard, doesn't really mean anything. Sweating, vomiting, and breathing hard could be a good workout or a tropical disease kicking in.-Dan John
Now that I put that picture in my profile you can see why I have no clients.....my head is very scary. ha ha
I think you have hit the nail right on the ..uh head as it were.
Because of the anonymity provided by the internet (and I am probably geographically safe), I will agree with you. But I would go further and say that your site is equally scary.
I am not a trainer but (I think) an important possible client base for you, over 40, disposable income, and rather charming to boot.
I would suggest a different webpage for "normal people", or perhaps a banner that says we train normal people, too. I think that most people (even if they train) would be intimidated walking into your gym or even looking at your site.
I think the best money groups are men like myself, and the "professional" women group, and the homemaker group. There is little difference in the appeal to the pro men/women group, very much an issue of getting us in the door, not scaring us (which the head and sunglasses do )
Then, education. Our "generation" is not of the "hunter gatherers" but of the information gatherers. Anal to the point of annoyance, I am sure. The upside is we are "trainable-mentally as well as physically, and have enough $$ to pay.
I do not know if crossfit is necessarily the solution as it appeals to people who have been training HARD already, and not as big a slice of the trainer pie, the weekend warrior (or the wannabe weekend warrior).
One aside, as an information gatherer, I started looking for a bow flex like machine, and stumbled across this site, and have tried to educate (never bought the machine , just a bench and squat-rack). If I visited your site when I first started, I would say this place is not for me. Now I would say - cool- but... still pretty intimidating
However, if you respond to my post, and I read a few more of your posts, I will quickly learn that I COULD PROBABLY VISIT YOUR FACILITY AND NOT GET A WEDGIE OR STUFFED INTO A GARBAE CAN.
But there is a huge "jump" that the hard-core image of your site is not helping me to bridge. In any service industry, reputation and work of mouth is your most powerful tool, I would suggest some ways you could "soften" your image is through participating some community that show the softer side (if that exists of you and your members, lol) . Bring some "skinny guys" to help out.
Outreach of any sort will help you develop a soft image that will serve you very well. Some things that come to mind are doing some kind of workshop for high school kids- especially a sport, that would bring in the spectator parents and the "weekend warrior fathers (yeah get ready for the story of the blown out knee...), even junior highs school kids. (BTW, you need to target middle class and semi affluent schools)
Create a "wellness" package for the "power" exec... (look at how these packages can be used/designed to lower health premiums for companies,
Target lawyer types (they like to think of themselves as "he-men" LOL. Get ONE customer in the right area looking great and talking about your "new method" of manly training. Use your personal networks to get your foot in the door.
I hope that some of these suggestions are of use to you. I have had some success in other service industry activities (and for only 19.99 you can buy my guide LOL)
Sorry for the long post.
Cheers
peter
__________________
Peter
After all, diamonds are a girl's best friend…
I really should preface my whole goal. I have litterally hundreds of clients coming in and out every day. I just want maybe three or four PT seesions a day out of those people. With my current work load of running the gym and my own training that's all I really have time for. So people aren't scared of the gym at all, as a matter of fact as soon as people come in the door they love the 'no hassle' atmosphere of the place because many of them tried the Bally's down the street first and hated the bombardment of douchy sales kids. The problem is convincing them to not be scared of me and that $30 a session is money well spent. Yes, that's all I charge for my members. There is very little I can do about my look, I am a very fit 275lbs at 6'1". Its not like i'm a complete monster. But at least I have the look of a guy that knows his way around a gym.
There is very little I can do about my look, I am a very fit 275lbs at 6'1". Its not like i'm a complete monster. But at least I have the look of a guy that knows his way around a gym.
I think that if your attitude and you "look" are in line with each other you'll be fine - everybody has their own style that kind of fits their personality and image - Maybe you could refine it or tailor it when you need to, but yeah, I'd say that people will respect you for just being yourself and making no apologies about it -
One other thing John, I honestly don't like training most people. Housewives and business men may be most PTs bread and butter but I really have no interest in doing all that. I like to work with athletes and people into more serious stuff. I need to get over that and somehow become more enthusiastic about the regular folk. Of course, large amounts of cash might help that.
There are hardcore business men out there, but you still have to do more than just find them. The problem is that the more desirable the trainee, the more likely they are going to be able to train themself(or at least think so). Athletes are used to pratice, and working out and are comfortable in the gym - it is hard to convince them that they need to spend extra for a trainer. Take someone that played football in highschool with daily weightlifting, lifted all through college, and on and off from 20 - 30. How do you convince that 30 year old dude(who is string and still athletic - the kind of client that you want) that you have anything to offer. He has spent 10 years in the gym, working hard. House wives need your help, they don't know what they are doing; but desirable athletes don't realize that you can benefit them.
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Originally Posted by kuri
Nobody I know really digs training all of their clients - that's just a part of the business.
That is part of every business - some tasks are good, some suck ass; but they are all part of the job.
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Originally Posted by Steve Pulcinella
I really should preface my whole goal. I have litterally hundreds of clients coming in and out every day. I just want maybe three or four PT seesions a day out of those people.
As I said before, those are all strong tough dudes that aren't intimidated by a hardcore gym, in their mind, what do they need you for?
I have a great gym that has tons of iron, cages, stones, logs, tires, bumper plates, etc - the "meat head" section. That is what some of the women from my work call it. They never venture to that half of the gym, they use the gym for the treadmill and aerobics gym. I O-lift there and there are quite a few powerlifters, there used to be an olympic level O-lifter girl that traind there till she moved back to Colorado Springs. I often worked out with her and a gym trainer that also O-lifted, getting free advice from both. I never considered using a gym trainer though. I just couldn't figure out what value they would add to my workouts. For the last feww weeks I have been going to a group traing crossfit gym. It is fairly expensive, and I never would have considered going for myself. But I signed up with my wife to get her to go regularly. Scheduled classes(or a trainer) are best for her because she is busy and never makes time just to go to the gym. I am seeing value in having a trainer, even for me, even in a small group setting though: identifying weakness, keeping form from slipping, forcing work on the under-performed exercises, etc.
I really think the biggest problem is that the kind of people that you want to train are the ones that don't think they need a trainer. I am a competitive beach volleyball player, 30 years old, athletic, know my way around a gym - solid in O-lifts, fairly well read up, treat weightlifting as a hobby. How would you sell me that fact that it is worth my money to have a trainer. Figure that out and you will have some clients.
One Idea I have for you that could generate some revenue and maybe create some training opportunities. Go meat the local Crossfit affiliate that is training out of their garage. Do they need more space? There is probably good equipment crossover between your gym and what they have. Can you rent them space for their classes, provide their members with "open gym" time(something most crossfit gyms don't have, espically if it is running out of a garage) Just go meet them, see what they are like, if there is a fit, it might be worth some sort of partnership. Then let them do the marketing for athletes that are more interested in being trained than just having a gym to workout in.
Although our gym is hardcore 90% of my members are just regular folk. Its simply a money thing for these people. I have people come to me and call me that always ask me about training and then when I hit them with the fact that it costs money to be trained they kind of look at me like I just insulted them.
Hey, that olympic lifting girl you trained with in VA. Was her name Missi Saucedo?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buk
There are hardcore business men out there, but you still have to do more than just find them. The problem is that the more desirable the trainee, the more likely they are going to be able to train themself(or at least think so). Athletes are used to pratice, and working out and are comfortable in the gym - it is hard to convince them that they need to spend extra for a trainer. Take someone that played football in highschool with daily weightlifting, lifted all through college, and on and off from 20 - 30. How do you convince that 30 year old dude(who is string and still athletic - the kind of client that you want) that you have anything to offer. He has spent 10 years in the gym, working hard. House wives need your help, they don't know what they are doing; but desirable athletes don't realize that you can benefit them.
That is part of every business - some tasks are good, some suck ass; but they are all part of the job.
As I said before, those are all strong tough dudes that aren't intimidated by a hardcore gym, in their mind, what do they need you for?
I have a great gym that has tons of iron, cages, stones, logs, tires, bumper plates, etc - the "meat head" section. That is what some of the women from my work call it. They never venture to that half of the gym, they use the gym for the treadmill and aerobics gym. I O-lift there and there are quite a few powerlifters, there used to be an olympic level O-lifter girl that traind there till she moved back to Colorado Springs. I often worked out with her and a gym trainer that also O-lifted, getting free advice from both. I never considered using a gym trainer though. I just couldn't figure out what value they would add to my workouts. For the last feww weeks I have been going to a group traing crossfit gym. It is fairly expensive, and I never would have considered going for myself. But I signed up with my wife to get her to go regularly. Scheduled classes(or a trainer) are best for her because she is busy and never makes time just to go to the gym. I am seeing value in having a trainer, even for me, even in a small group setting though: identifying weakness, keeping form from slipping, forcing work on the under-performed exercises, etc.
I really think the biggest problem is that the kind of people that you want to train are the ones that don't think they need a trainer. I am a competitive beach volleyball player, 30 years old, athletic, know my way around a gym - solid in O-lifts, fairly well read up, treat weightlifting as a hobby. How would you sell me that fact that it is worth my money to have a trainer. Figure that out and you will have some clients.
One Idea I have for you that could generate some revenue and maybe create some training opportunities. Go meat the local Crossfit affiliate that is training out of their garage. Do they need more space? There is probably good equipment crossover between your gym and what they have. Can you rent them space for their classes, provide their members with "open gym" time(something most crossfit gyms don't have, espically if it is running out of a garage) Just go meet them, see what they are like, if there is a fit, it might be worth some sort of partnership. Then let them do the marketing for athletes that are more interested in being trained than just having a gym to workout in.
1) I just want maybe three or four PT seesions a day out of those people.
2) The problem is convincing them to not be scared of me and that $30 a session is money well spent. Yes, that's all I charge for my members.
3) There is very little I can do about my look, I am a very fit 275lbs at 6'1". Its not like i'm a complete monster. But at least I have the look of a guy that knows his way around a gym.
I think Buk real;ly hit on the essentyials, in that you have a client base that probably thinks they "know enough".
I think there are two issues at play.
1) the need to educate them enough so that they know they don't know enough (and therefore need you).
2) Now that I need you, I need to know I am getting $30 per hour of benefit. (I think for the crowd you have, they may think that they know enough that they will not get $30 worth....) $30 seem quite reasonable... but what would you do for me that would give me $30 worth week in and week out.
Weight training is a "hobby" (I suppose) for me, I have decent form, and can by a program, say NROL, for $20 bucks. What do I need you for?? I think you need to "educate me" enough so that I see a need for you. (how, seminars, weekend retreat, etc) This would also serve to strengthen the customer loyalty to the gym and you.
Now I know I need something, but why do I need you for an hour every week? And how am I getting $30 worth. (now when I look at the VERY inexperience person getting advice about foot placement for curls in the power rack, I know that they will get their moneys wporth because they are so low on the learning curve. How about me, I am "good enough". I know that the miracle body I want depends more on the kitchen than the weight room. How am I getting value for my money?
Cheers
Peter
__________________
Peter
After all, diamonds are a girl's best friend…
Thanks, I need to start treating things along those lines. You are right in that I have a gym where 98% of the people THINK they know what they are doing and just about all of them have no clue.
I think Buk real;ly hit on the essentyials, in that you have a client base that probably thinks they "know enough".
I think there are two issues at play.
1) the need to educate them enough so that they know they don't know enough (and therefore need you).
2) Now that I need you, I need to know I am getting $30 per hour of benefit. (I think for the crowd you have, they may think that they know enough that they will not get $30 worth....) $30 seem quite reasonable... but what would you do for me that would give me $30 worth week in and week out.
Weight training is a "hobby" (I suppose) for me, I have decent form, and can by a program, say NROL, for $20 bucks. What do I need you for?? I think you need to "educate me" enough so that I see a need for you. (how, seminars, weekend retreat, etc) This would also serve to strengthen the customer loyalty to the gym and you.
Now I know I need something, but why do I need you for an hour every week? And how am I getting $30 worth. (now when I look at the VERY inexperience person getting advice about foot placement for curls in the power rack, I know that they will get their moneys wporth because they are so low on the learning curve. How about me, I am "good enough". I know that the miracle body I want depends more on the kitchen than the weight room. How am I getting value for my money?
Have you considered marketing yourself to highschool football/hockey/basketball players in their offseasons? I know a couple of the more 'hardcore' gyms i go to make pretty good money doing this. Whats nice, is that the kids usually try really damn hard, and you can stick to a powerlifting/strongman style training most of the time.
Highschool kids dont have alot of money, but their parents do. Ive known of players who would pay big money for a trainer that would help them improve in their sport.
I agree with Frank--what have you done to attract young athletes to the gym? There are lots of wealthy parents out there who think there kid is the next big star. And there are lots of young athletes out there who are actually talented and have a realistic shot to make it at the college or professional level. I think these are the types of clients that would benefit from your PT since they are still learning about training. Get out to the area schools, offer to hold some team clinics......trust me, the kids will come.
I know again I sound negative but I have tried to go that route a few times. Parents around here would rather spend their money on beer and marlboros than to pay someone to help their kid. We have tried to hold summer strength camps and have gotten zero response. The few football coaches I have talked to insulted me so bad I vowed never to approach them again. We have some of the top football programs in the state right in our backyard and they are trained by assistant football coaches using a bastardized version of the BFS program. Its pathetic.
You would think that parents would jump at the chance to have a former worlds strongest man competitor who has trained drug free his whole life teach their kids about strength but it's not the case. Maybe if I had a fulltime sales person traveling and hammering coaches day and night I could get some response but I just cant make that happen.
I know if i was in a different area of the country I would be a profitable coach and trainer but this is where my gym is right now. Location, location, location.
Do you know any pro athletes, i.e., a World Series champion or NFL player, that you could get to visit your gym and maybe become do some PR with it--invite the news stations. If you get a big name athlete associated with your gym, maybe it would change some perceptions....
Here is a different scenario...
Linear Mode
