Im a new trainer, and am facing a slight dillema with the industry. IMO there are two types of trainers and training facilities. There are the typical personal trainer's, that you see in the comercial gyms, and on TV. And then there are the trainers and facilities that are more focused on science and quality training than just making money.
One of my problems is that I was told that my workouts are "too basic" The basis of my program is progressing in strength and work capacity in the following lifts:
And for more advanced trainees, possibly simplified forms of olympic lifts.
Now I was told that these exercises are too basic, and that I need to learn more "creative exercises". Ive also been told that as a trainer you need to have a ton of variety in your programs. I understand the purpose of variety in creating value with clients, but at what point does it become detrimental to results?
One of the things I dislike about the industry, is the trendy exercises and training. I truly believe that the above mentioned lifts are all that is needed for success for 99.99% of people, but the trendy PT's out there would completely disagree. I see no need to do curls standing on one leg on a bosu ball, to promote "core" strength.
Now as a trainer, how do you guys feel about this dillema. Do you stick with what you know works best, or do you create "cute" exercises to make your clients think they are getting something special?
If your clients are getting what they want then you're numbers will be equal to your peers and you probably aren't going to get screwed with. "What they want" may be something as simple as to be entertained for 1hr 3x a week.
Personally, I'll go for 5-15min of a warm up. 30min of basic lifting. Finish the last 15-20min on some of the more creative things.
The main body of the lifting is the main portion of the results. The fore and latter are for injury prevention and keeping things fresh. As a trainer you should pretty well have a handle on what you can add and take away from a client before negatively effecting their progress. Just play in that window. Doing some sort of KB work, lunges, sandbag, misc "thing" shouldn't impact anything.
As long as your clients are seeing results and you are pulling in your numbers, than nothing else should matter.
Stick to what works...some clients will benefit from the basics, and some may need the cute exercises...what does it matter? IN the end, what matters is that you learn more and more about how people respond to exercise and stress; and how you can apply those to reach maximum benefits.
Sometimes, we get too worried about what others do or we are afraid to "mess up". My first year into training, I think I used my first 20-30 clients as guinea pigs in an effort to learn more about which exercises were useful and which were wasteful.
I am going to disagree a little bit with folks. (just a little mind you) Who is telling you that your workouts are too basic? Find out why they feel that way. As a new trainer you don't really have the security of stable client base to tell you that your way is right.
From what I can tell, you need to get results but you must also make it fun for your clients. At least you have to make it enjoyable enough that they want to continue paying you again and again right? If you do the same routine all the time then it might just get boring despite how effective it is. I make up my own routines and I look for variety a little bit in my exercises. You should do the same thing for your clients as it is appropriate. You might decide to do the same exercises even but do them in a circut as opposed to sets. That can be a fun mix up. You may decide one day to do tabata type training with the same good exercises. If you have a fat loss client you may decide one day to take them out for a run just to mix it up a bit.
I think you can add variety without compromising your foundational beliefs about exercising. Roland posted a thread recently from Ross that speaks to this subject matter. Keep it fun and keep it real. In this case, I believe you can have your cake and eat it too.
__________________
The BIGGER I get the smaller you look
I am going to disagree a little bit with folks. (just a little mind you) Who is telling you that your workouts are too basic? Find out why they feel that way. As a new trainer you don't really have the security of stable client base to tell you that your way is right.
From what I can tell, you need to get results but you must also make it fun for your clients. At least you have to make it enjoyable enough that they want to continue paying you again and again right? If you do the same routine all the time then it might just get boring despite how effective it is. I make up my own routines and I look for variety a little bit in my exercises. You should do the same thing for your clients as it is appropriate. You might decide to do the same exercises even but do them in a circut as opposed to sets. That can be a fun mix up. You may decide one day to do tabata type training with the same good exercises. If you have a fat loss client you may decide one day to take them out for a run just to mix it up a bit.
I think you can add variety without compromising your foundational beliefs about exercising. Roland posted a thread recently from Ross that speaks to this subject matter. Keep it fun and keep it real. In this case, I believe you can have your cake and eat it too.
I agree and I think you are agreeing with my post as well.
We, as trainers, get so caught up in what the "elitist" market, but in the end, it is about getting results for your clients. I will say this...there will be times when you have to curtail what you know/believe in order to get a person to cooperate...and as long as you understand that the premise of your knowledge is on one level--than it shouldn't hinder your confidence when you have to lower that level. In other words, there is a difference between "ignorance" (actually not knowing that a deadlift may have more carry-over than a BOSU step), and simply "improvising" in order to reach a specific goal.
Let's get out of this "accept me into your club" mentality. Show me what you have done with your clients and then be ready to explain to me how and why you did what you did.
I agree with everything said. But ive been told that I should basically never have a client do the same workout twice. I would agree basically with this statement, in that they need to progress in some way, but it was stated to me more that they shouldn't do the same exercises or sequence of exercises twice.
From what I can see so far, there is this belief that variety is the most important variable. Whereas I believe that progressive overload is the most important variable. And I feel that if you are constantly trying to change things as often as possible and create novelty in your programs, its very hard to monitor progression. It is important to keep the body guessing, but really how much is necessary?
For example, I might have an A-B split that I would do with a client. It would be full body during both sessions, but all different exercises. Also, the set/rep range would change each session. There may be very minor changes to the exercises, but I think if you change from a db chest press, to a barbell chest press, to a band press all in the course of 1-2 weeks, that you dont get enought time to tell whether your progressing or not. I would like to be able to have a client follow something like the above A-B split for 2-3 weeks, which would be each workout 3-5 times. At which point, I could evaluate progress and decide whether to make a large change to the program or just some minor tweaks. Otherwise, if this is not accepted, then i'd be tempted to put a client on two programs at once, and alternate programs with each session. So it might be A1, B2, A2, B1, A1..... And the program would go twice as long. I dunno, this just seems silly to me.
I guess this is just a side of the business im going to have to get used to. The way I kind of see it, is that athletes are able to get in incredible shape with the basic exercises and minor modifications. Why does the personal training industry have this notion that basic exercises will get basic results?
Progression: Your "job" isn't to train people. Your "job" is to earn your organization money. If you present the image that people can do the same things that they do with you without giving the organization extra money then you've failed to do your job and it'll piss off your boss. If you present the image that you're doing things that only the trainers from "Gym Superpump" know and they should pay money to find these secrets, then you've done a good job.
If you buck the system and your clients are happy and progressing in a way that they're happy with then mention that they could say something about they're happiness on a comment card and tell their friends. "If" you're making enough money for the man, then the man isn't going to care how it's getting done.
I agree with everything said. But ive been told that I should basically never have a client do the same workout twice. I would agree basically with this statement, in that they need to progress in some way, but it was stated to me more that they shouldn't do the same exercises or sequence of exercises twice.
From what I can see so far, there is this belief that variety is the most important variable. Whereas I believe that progressive overload is the most important variable. And I feel that if you are constantly trying to change things as often as possible and create novelty in your programs, its very hard to monitor progression. It is important to keep the body guessing, but really how much is necessary?
For example, I might have an A-B split that I would do with a client. It would be full body during both sessions, but all different exercises. Also, the set/rep range would change each session. There may be very minor changes to the exercises, but I think if you change from a db chest press, to a barbell chest press, to a band press all in the course of 1-2 weeks, that you dont get enought time to tell whether your progressing or not. I would like to be able to have a client follow something like the above A-B split for 2-3 weeks, which would be each workout 3-5 times. At which point, I could evaluate progress and decide whether to make a large change to the program or just some minor tweaks. Otherwise, if this is not accepted, then i'd be tempted to put a client on two programs at once, and alternate programs with each session. So it might be A1, B2, A2, B1, A1..... And the program would go twice as long. I dunno, this just seems silly to me.
I guess this is just a side of the business im going to have to get used to. The way I kind of see it, is that athletes are able to get in incredible shape with the basic exercises and minor modifications. Why does the personal training industry have this notion that basic exercises will get basic results?
You seem to have a good knowledge base for programming for your clients. If your clients aren't complaining, then who cares what someone else says. It also depends on what this person means by creative as well. If the person's idea of creativity is your example of single leg bosu exercises, then I wouldn't pay much mind.
Assuming the people you're training are relative newbies and you decide to go with the flow and do what The Man says, you should be able to monitor progress by a few of the key lifts that you come back to every few sessions.
You need to know that they have progressed, not that they are progressing. If they go up 5lbs or 1 rep in the bench press in one week, you still don't know if they just tried harder because you asked them to try for more. If they were beat after work and couldn't hit as many reps as last week, they didn't necessarily regress, they just didn't have the energy or focus this week.
One benefit of a good trainer is the ability to help them judge their efforts and work at their best level on any given day.
Having a monthly (or so) repeat workout that you use to test progress will also be a more dramatic example to him about how much stronger he is.
Whereas I believe that progressive overload is the most important variable. And I feel that if you are constantly trying to change things as often as possible and create novelty in your programs, its very hard to monitor progression. It is important to keep the body guessing, but really how much is necessary?
Ah, there's the rub, isn't it? We want to keep at the same exercise long enough to see some strength gains, but not so long that the client stagnates, gets frustrated, and gives up....
At my little personal training facility, we structure 12-workout programs for 6 weeks at a time. Within that timeframe, we work on progressive overload, building reps and/or weight as necessary. After 6 weeks, the client gets a completely "new" program.
I do include some of the major lifts in each program - I just vary it. Maybe one program will have a straight-legged Romanian deadlift, and the next one a regular DL. Or we'll do it with a barbell one program and a kettlebell or dumbbells the next. Front squats vs. back squats. I confess I do throw in some dumbbell curls and triceps isolations to keep them happy, but those do tend to come at the end of the workout....
Because our clientele tends to be middle-aged or older (a significant number are over 60), we do whole-body workouts twice-weekly to meet rather their rather modest goals: to maintain functional range of motion, build strength and flexibility, and maintain bone mass.
My people aren't terribly concerned about becoming competitive powerlifters or figure athletes ;-). But they get the results THEY want, so they are incredibly loyal. Many have been coming for 4+ years.
I've never actually worked in a large, commercial gym, and I guess it's a different environment. I'm really not pressured to bring in new clients - we get most of our business through word-of-mouth referrals.
I think you should stick to your guns, to a degree, and encourage your new clients to trust you (after all, that's what they are paying you for). At the same time, however, make sure your programs do meet THEIR goals. As they get stronger and begin to see results, they will refer more people to you. This does take time, however. If you are a good listener, that alone will set you apart from many, if not most, newly-minted, young trainers out there. (We have our share of clients who have come to us after becoming disillusioned with the big gyms...too much spandex they say, coupled with trainers who are too pushy and force cookie-cutter workouts on them....)
PS Sometimes you need to educate your clients on why the big lifts are important. The general public is so used to defining weight training as "selectorized machine training," that they don't even understand the benefits of the big lifts for the average person. They think they are just for muscleheads.
Just the other day, I was doing a box deadlift with 129 lbs (not my heaviest weight), and one of my 40-ish clients passed me by and shook her head, amazed, muttering there was no way SHE could do that. I asked her why not? I mean, she's a career nurse-midwife who routinely has to lift and transfer pregnant women weighing WAY more than that....why SHOULDN't she train heavy in the gym to help her out on the job? When put into that perspective, she had to agree that maybe she COULD do it....
What I'm saying is, if you can connect what you do in the gym with the clients' activities OUTSIDE the gym, it helps them to clarify, and own, their goals. When you get questioned by the gym owner, you can then come back to this and say, "it's what the CLIENT wants." See what I mean?
Thanks for the replies, there were a lot of good points your brought up.
I think part of my problem has been with communication. This all came up because one client was not happy with the program that I gave them. I was not aware of this, so I was unable to make any changes.
I think I need to explain my philosophy to my clients, and that I do what I do because:
1. It will lead to their goals
2. It is going to be safe
3. And there is a way to continue progressing for further results
This client that was not happy, felt that my programs were not intense enough. There seems to be another notion out there, that more is better, and you have to be exhausted after a workout to get results. I was told by a manager to "destroy her during her workout". I have a problem with this, because it goes against my philosophy in every way, and if she gets injured, its going to come down on me. Im not a drill sargeant, im a personal trainer.
I think what it comes down to IMO, is that I am the professional, and the client is coming to me because im supposed to know what im doing. Theres a difference sometimes between what the client wants, and what they need. I can understand that they are paying me and they feel I should do what they want, but in some cases like the one mentioned this might not happen. I would rather not train a client that doesn't trust me, and thinks they know what is right for them. But I agree that lack of communication is probably the reason im in this situation, and i'll adress the problem.
...There seems to be another notion out there, that more is better, and you have to be exhausted after a workout to get results. I was told by a manager to "destroy her during her workout". I have a problem with this, because it goes against my philosophy in every way, and if she gets injured, its going to come down on me. Im not a drill sargeant, im a personal trainer....
This guy's an idiot. Your on the right track, and I can tell you care about your clients. Trust me, I have several clients of my own who were turned off, in the past, by a trainer who did try to destroy them - and lost a client in the process...
Also, I just wanted to say one final thing on this subject. You can't please everyone all the time. For whatever reason...chalk it up to lack of chemistry if nothing else...there are clients who just won't like you or your style. (This is assuming that you've fixed the communication pipeline and THAT's not the issue...) Sometimes it's just a personality thing. I don't know. Just know that it isn't necessarily anything YOU are doing wrong, in those cases. Once you build your "practice," you'll have a better handle on this, and won't take it personally when the odd client doesn't work out....
Thanks for the replies, there were a lot of good points your brought up.
I think part of my problem has been with communication. This all came up because one client was not happy with the program that I gave them. I was not aware of this, so I was unable to make any changes.
That is exactly why I sent you off to figure out WHO was saying this. I figured one of your clients was bitch'n which is a good reason for you to make some changes. In your communication or training or whatever but changes all the same.
__________________
The BIGGER I get the smaller you look
This client that was not happy, felt that my programs were not intense enough. There seems to be another notion out there, that more is better, and you have to be exhausted after a workout to get results. I was told by a manager to "destroy her during her workout". I have a problem with this, because it goes against my philosophy in every way, and if she gets injured, its going to come down on me. Im not a drill sargeant, im a personal trainer.
I think what it comes down to IMO, is that I am the professional, and the client is coming to me because im supposed to know what im doing. Theres a difference sometimes between what the client wants, and what they need. I can understand that they are paying me and they feel I should do what they want, but in some cases like the one mentioned this might not happen. I would rather not train a client that doesn't trust me, and thinks they know what is right for them. But I agree that lack of communication is probably the reason im in this situation, and i'll adress the problem.
__________________
"Time and patience are the 2 elements that most people don't include in their plans."
-Alan Aragon
"The scale simply tells you how much the earth loves you on a particular day."
-Ogedei (Keith)
Wow, I guess this is more common than I thought. Well, my client didn't show for her appointment yesterday, so im hoping she'll show tommorow. Im going to give her a good workout tommorow very similar to "real fast fat loss", and then after its over, open up the communication a bit. I want to see what she's hoping to accomplish with me, what she likes, and what she dislikes. Then im going to explain why im doing things the way im doing them. I'm going to see if she'll go for two weeks more, at which point she can decide if she wants to continue with me, or go to someone else.
I agree with what was mentioned about some people just not clicking with eachother. One thing about me, that actually kept me from being a trainer for so long was that I couldn't understand how people could find it worth it to pay a trainer so much. Before I ever even started training, i had an idea about what my style might be. Im most interested in corrective movement, and getting people to "perform" in a correct manner. Also, I would like to educate people to the point where they no longer are dependant on me. This may not be the usual method of training, but who knows, in the long run, it may be better to train a larger population of people even if you only train them for 3-6 months and then send them out on there own. We'll have to see. Thanks again for all the feedback, its good to see that im not the only one thats experienced this problem, and some methods of dealing with it.
The good news: From a training perspective, you are right on the money with everything you are doing and whomever is telling you to "add variety" is full of shit and doesn't know anything about training
The bad news: The types of people described above run this industry and if you work for them, you run a real risk of losing your job if you don't subscribe to their bullshit ways and put all of your clients on a bosu ball or some other crap.
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Izzo
but in the end, it is about getting results for your clients.
Really? People who do "functional training" don't get any noticeable results, ever. Because it is physically impossible. One cannot create a sufficient stimulus for physique change using inflatable balls and other toys. By definition, this type of training is all about targetting the stabilizers and there is no way for the prime movers to be overloaded. The people who do it get to look "cool" and "have fun" while they work out. They are paying for an expensive adult babysitter.
It's pretty simple:
Machines improve hypertrophy and aesthetics
Compound lifts with free weights improve performance
And everything else is a gimmick. I will give the standard disclaimer that some of these tools have an occasional use but everyone with half a brain knows that the marketing hype does not reflect the training necessity.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Fanelli
I agree with everything said. But ive been told that I should basically never have a client do the same workout twice. I would agree basically with this statement, in that they need to progress in some way, but it was stated to me more that they shouldn't do the same exercises or sequence of exercises twice.
Great way of making sure that a beginner stays a beginner and doesn't improve on anything. From a marketing and client retention standpoint, it obviously works. If you're so pathetic that you can't get people to continue paying you, then force them to do it by making every workout different. Reading this kind of garbage makes me ill. Because the people who push it are trying to pass themselves off as knowledgeable trainers, when they are nothing more than marketers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Fanelli
Why does the personal training industry have this notion that basic exercises will get basic results?
It has no such notion. The PT industry doesn't care about results, it cares about publicity, marketing and gimmicks. PT's have no idea what true results look like. The only thing that an average PT can do is to babysit someone through their beginner's gains.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lost Dog
Having a monthly (or so) repeat workout that you use to test progress will also be a more dramatic example to him about how much stronger he is.
...Just imagine how much stronger he would be on that very workout if he did it 3 times a week, not once a month, lol.
Really? People who do "functional training" don't get any noticeable results, ever.
By what definition? Supine hip extensions and supine hip extensions w/ leg curl greatly improved my ability to move weight under control and balance and therefore improved my ability to move more weight with less incident of injury.
Secondly, where did John advocate pure functional training?
You're reading more than is there.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Allerious
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lost Dog
Having a monthly (or so) repeat workout that you use to test progress will also be a more dramatic example to him about how much stronger he is.
...Just imagine how much stronger he would be on that very workout if he did it 3 times a week, not once a month, lol.
I believe you totally pooch screwed the interpretation of what LD said along with a lot of others. I'm sure LD can defend his own words, but as a precursor:
I think Lost Dog was talking about a program of basic moves (Squat, deadlift, VPUSh, VPULL, etc) to use as assessment once a month or so.
I'm interested in hearing what LD has to say, but I'm confident in his thinking, not yours.
I think you're going to be taking it on the chin from others soon.
I believe you totally pooch screwed the interpretation of what LD said along with a lot of others. I'm sure LD can defend his own words, but as a pretext:
I think Lost Dog was talking about a program of basic moves (Squat, deadlift, VPUSh, VPULL, etc) to use as assessment once a month or so.
I'm interested in hearing what LD has to say, but I'm confident in his thinking, not yours.
Yes. That's what I meant.
I meant, soon after you get hired, you have a basic workout of squats, deads, pushes and pulls, test max times on planks, etc. Every few weeks, you do the same workout to see how they progress. In between, you can still do the same exercises, but you won't necessarily do the same workout, time after time.
I didn't mean this was OPTIMUM, I meant that it would be good within the context of his dilemma.
However, the difference between optimum and really good progress is probably insignificant in most gym goers. If this keeps them progressing, interested, coming back, and paying more, then I'm for it.
Originally Posted by John Izzo but in the end, it is about getting results for your clients.
Really? People who do "functional training" don't get any noticeable results, ever. Because it is physically impossible. One cannot create a sufficient stimulus for physique change using inflatable balls and other toys. By definition, this type of training is all about targetting the stabilizers and there is no way for the prime movers to be overloaded. The people who do it get to look "cool" and "have fun" while they work out. They are paying for an expensive adult babysitter.
It's pretty simple:
Machines improve hypertrophy and aesthetics
Compound lifts with free weights improve performance
And everything else is a gimmick. I will give the standard disclaimer that some of these tools have an occasional use but everyone with half a brain knows that the marketing hype does not reflect the training necessity.
Ever?
A stability ball leg curl cannot create a significant stimulus? What about a pushup on a ball strengthening the stabilizers in the shoulder girdle?
Client likes ball. Give client ball. If you don't, some lame trainer will. Because he ends up quitting the purist who wouldn't give him the ball and goes to some guy who has him squat on the ball, rather than use the ball in an effective manner. If one is a good trainer, maybe you're being irresponsible by not working the ball (or whatever) into the routine to keep him around to benefit from an otherwise stellar routine.
Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Fanelli I agree with everything said. But ive been told that I should basically never have a client do the same workout twice. I would agree basically with this statement, in that they need to progress in some way, but it was stated to me more that they shouldn't do the same exercises or sequence of exercises twice.
Great way of making sure that a beginner stays a beginner and doesn't improve on anything. From a marketing and client retention standpoint, it obviously works. If you're so pathetic that you can't get people to continue paying you, then force them to do it by making every workout different. Reading this kind of garbage makes me ill. Because the people who push it are trying to pass themselves off as knowledgeable trainers, when they are nothing more than marketers.
Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Fanelli Why does the personal training industry have this notion that basic exercises will get basic results?
It has no such notion. The PT industry doesn't care about results, it cares about publicity, marketing and gimmicks. PT's have no idea what true results look like. The only thing that an average PT can do is to babysit someone through their beginner's gains.
I want to think I'm reading your whole post wrong, but I'm just not sure. I think you phrased things badly, making it hard to tell whether you're agreeing, disagreeing, or showing solidarity with John and Dan. Maybe you could clarify?
By what definition? Supine hip extensions and supine hip extensions w/ leg curl greatly improved my ability to move weight under control and balance and therefore improved my ability to move more weight with less incident of injury.
That's just bodyweight floor work that you've described. It's no different from having people perform BW squats, pushups, dips or chins. Leg curls using the ball, maybe, but you don't need an implement to do supine extensions. I'm in favor of such exercise. From a strength perspective, everybody should be able to work with their own bodyweight before they add external resistance. There is a very natural progression from these exercises to their free weight counterparts. BW Squat => DB Squat => BB Squat Elevated Pushup => Floor Pushup => Bench Press and so on
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cynic
Secondly, where did John advocate pure functional training?
You're reading more than is there.
I was using the opportunity to make a general commentary on the issue, not just to reply to what others had written. I passionately despise functional training and I hope I got that across in my post.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cynic
I believe you totally pooch screwed the interpretation of what LD said along with a lot of others. I'm sure LD can defend his own words, but as a precursor:
I think Lost Dog was talking about a program of basic moves (Squat, deadlift, VPUSh, VPULL, etc) to use as assessment once a month or so.
But how much better will someone do on an assessment if said assessment consists of the same program used in that person's training? The answer is kind of obvious. I'm pretty sure I got his message. I'm not sure that you got mine. I was making a point about the importance of training specificity in contrast to the mainstream "cross training" dogma which I fervently despise.
If you want to improve on "squats, deads, pushes and pulls, test max times on planks" then there is no better way of doing it than to regularly include all of those movements into your training.
I understand that he was offering this idea as a suggested compromise to the OP's dilemna. I am advising the OP to reject all compromises in this matter and bludgeon anyone who advocates functional training.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lost Dog
Ever?
A stability ball leg curl cannot create a significant stimulus? What about a pushup on a ball strengthening the stabilizers in the shoulder girdle?
I said prime mover stimulus, not stabilizers. Training stabilizers all day isn't going to get an out of shape person into shape.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lost Dog
Client likes ball. Give client ball. If you don't, some lame trainer will. Because he ends up quitting the purist who wouldn't give him the ball and goes to some guy who has him squat on the ball, rather than use the ball in an effective manner. If one is a good trainer, maybe you're being irresponsible by not working the ball (or whatever) into the routine to keep him around to benefit from an otherwise stellar routine.
I see your point but it's moot in my case for several reasons:
1) I don't market myself or accept clients from the "fun-seeking" crowd. I look for people who want results and are willing to put in the effort required to get them. This is my chosen niche. Qualifying your client prospects is one of the most important things you can do as a trainer. Simply put, not every person who walks in the door is going to be a viable prospect. Many of them won't be at a commercial facility. And I'm fine with that.
2) I have comprehensive systems in place for client retention, billing, sales, etc...I don't simply wing these things. What I lack in terms of "fun factor", I make up for in other areas.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lost Dog
I want to think I'm reading your whole post wrong, but I'm just not sure. I think you phrased things badly, making it hard to tell whether you're agreeing, disagreeing, or showing solidarity with John and Dan. Maybe you could clarify?
It's pretty much the latter. Dan is on the right track as a trainer and I was addressing his questions as to why the industry operates the way it does wrt funct. training.
What I'm trying to say is that Dan is not being told to avoid basic exercises because his supervisors honestly believe that variety produces better results. His supervisors don't give a shit about results. Their advice is based entirely on sales, marketing and promotion. It has nothing to do with getting people better results. He's giving these crooks and phoneys too much credit.
I just had an interview where everything was going well until I had to describe my training methods and the guy wasn't too happy when I mentioned that I wasn't a big practitioner of the functional bullshit (I didn't call it that, heh). The hiring manager stated quite frankly that the purpose of doing functional training was to confuse the hell out of clients and keep them coming back for more training.
I can't argue with that, from a sales perspective. It works. But that is not how you get someone results.
In the end, the blame must always fall on the dumbass consumer. Sales people simply offer what people want to buy. It's the idiots signing up for "kickboxing workout" classes and paying the stability ball trainers who need to be taken behind a shed and whipped.
That's just bodyweight floor work that you've described. It's no different from having people perform BW squats, pushups, dips or chins. Leg curls using the ball, maybe, but you don't need an implement to do supine extensions.
It works better if there is an element of instability the transverse abdominals have to work to correct. I'm not advocating DB curls while standing on a swiss-ball, but swiss-balls, bands, chains, etc, have their place.
We often do not work on stable platforms and/or with stable postures. When I worked at a warehouse (un)loading trucks and pushing boxes onto a carousel for sorting, rarely was it the case that I could make sure my posture was correct, my spine in alignment, etc. I suffered a few injuries for the reputation of middle management types who wanted greater "productivity."
Quote:
I was using the opportunity to make a general commentary on the issue, not just to reply to what others had written. I passionately despise functional training and I hope I got that across in my post.
Learn to stay in context, you won't look foolish.
Quote:
But how much better will someone do on an assessment if said assessment consists of the same program used in that person's training? The answer is kind of obvious. I'm pretty sure I got his message. I'm not sure that you got mine. I was making a point about the importance of training specificity in contrast to the mainstream "cross training" dogma which I fervently despise.
If I recall PMDL's words on this subject, for the mainstream of the public, specivity is totally unnecessary. It's better implemented for professional and semi-professional athletes who need to groove a movement pattern specific to their sport.
The mainstream of the public would do well to simply move weight in a well designed full body and incorporate some cardio/HIIT work. This is both logical and in keeping with my experience as a 44 yr old man who is simply trying to keep the effects of age at bay.
Quote:
If you want to improve on "squats, deads, pushes and pulls, test max times on planks" then there is no better way of doing it than to regularly include all of those movements into your training.
There is a need to allow the body to adapt and then take that comfort away by changing up movement patterns. The pure forms are good to use in any program, but not all the time, week after week, month after month. They make good assessment movement patterns but even that is hardly real world.
The mainstream of the public would do well to simply move weight in a well designed full body and incorporate some cardio/HIIT work. This is both logical and in keeping with my experience as a 44 yr old man who is simply trying to keep the effects of age at bay.
There is a need to allow the body to adapt and then take that comfort away by changing up movement patterns. The pure forms are good to use in any program, but not all the time, week after week, month after month. They make good assessment movement patterns but even that is hardly real world.
Exactly.
Allerious, if you can afford to concentrate only on one narrow type of client, well then, good for you. MY niche, at MY little personal training gym, is the 40+ group (often 60+ group) who is, as Cynic says, just trying to keep the effects of age at bay.
My 50 year old client with the congenital disk-degeneration issue in his spine, isn't interested, or capable of, competitive body-building OR Olympic lifts. He WAS, however, incredibly pleased and suprised when, at a party, a guest (who didn't know him) assumed he was 35!!! (Granted, the fact that he still has ALL his hair helped! LOL)
Now, when you look at the general population, and you think about how to grow your business, I ask you...WHICH population will have the disposable income required to drive your business...hmmnnn, can you say BABY -BOOMERS?
Go ahead and target the 20ish muscleheads, if you like. But the growth, for our business, is in the older segment of our population. THAT's where I intend to specialize.
And how is functional fitness bad, exactly, if THAT's what enables my people to be able to get up out of a chair and up/down stairs in their 80s? Just curious...
- Jennifer
__________________
ACE-Certified Personal Trainer Since 2002
Lifetime Member of WeightWatchers
Ok, here's a perspective from the client side and then another analogy from my own business, which is photography.
1 - I've hired personal trainers before. I've worked with 3 separate ones long term. What I HATE and loathe and despise is the trainer who thinks that because I'm female that I need to be "entertained" in order to lift weights and work out properly. I'm a fairly basic, intelligent, blunt person. I don't want to be entertained. I want to be educated. It's one of the things that I appreciate the most about NROLW - the very straight forward approach and Lou's repeated comments that he's not here to "rah rah" anyone - but to teach them.
I want a trainer who will do that for me in person. That doesn't mean that the person next to me or my friend or whoever else doesn't need the "entertainment" value. They might. But the trainer who works for them is NOT going to work for me ... because what they need is not what I need.
I would probably appreciate workign with you more than with one of your gym's other trainers who seem to be all about the entertainment value.
2 - As a photographer, one of the hardest things for me to learn in business was that not every person is going to be MY client. I would suspect that many trainers feel similarly to how I as a photographer feel - I love what I do and I want everyone to have it. But What I have to remember is that not everyone appreciates the same things I do - and that doesn't make them wrong, it just makes them not-my-client.
What do I mean by that? For example, my childrens portraits are very loose, undirected (for the most part), fun, on location. If a client comes to me and asks me to do a portrait of their child in a fancy dress, posed on a victorian stool, in front of a fake fireplace background ... that person is NOT MY CLIENT. There's nothing wrong with the type of very formal portrait they want, but it's not what I do. It does't make me happy to do it. I refer them to another photographer.
I see training as the same way. The type of people who come to YOU for training want what you can offer them - a no-bullshit, straightforward, honest approach. Is it "boring"? Maybe to someone who needs constant entertainment to stay motivated, sure. But for us, what you offer is what we want.
So ... those are my thoughts purely from a client perspective. There's room enough and clients enough for both schools of thought. And if what you're doing is working and your clients are happy with it ... it ain't broke. So don't fix it.
When you find someone who positively doesn't know what the hell they're doing, it's generally a good idea to do the opposite of whatever that person does in their field.
Case in point, Gwyneth Paltrow's personal trainer, who says that, "No woman should lift more than three pounds" because she'll get too bulky otherwise.
Quote:
Meet fitness guru Tracy Anderson. The former dancer-turned-celebrity-trainer recently revealed her tips to the Daily Mail on how she sculpts her A-list clients into gorgeously-toned powerhouses. So gear up and follow these simple tips to the body of your dreams.
Before you begin, keep in mind Anderson's cornerstone principle: variety. Whatever your routine, keep it as varied as possible, as Anderson believes a stale repetitive routine can actually limit muscle building and toning. If you are constantly working on the same muscles, you will only build in those areas.
What are you referring to as "cross-training?" I don't know that I consider myself as one who buys into the the bulking myth. I'm also not a "make every client do heavy bench, DL, and squats regardless of their goals" kinda trainer either.
When you find someone who positively doesn't know what the hell they're doing, it's generally a good idea to do the opposite of whatever that person does in their field.
Case in point, Gwyneth Paltrow's personal trainer, who says that, "No woman should lift more than three pounds" because she'll get too bulky otherwise.
I saw that on TV too - That drove me nuts - I mean, girls' purses way more than 3 pounds - lol
Thoughts on "basic" vs. "cute" exercises?
Who is telling you that your workouts are too basic? Find out why they feel that way. As a new trainer you don't really have the security of stable client base to tell you that your way is right. 
Linear Mode
