Too nice for this business...

[msmogreen]

That is what my general manager told me because I have the bad habit of taking 'no' for an answer when a club member tells me they can't afford to purchase a training package. When I suggested that not everyone has a credit card he said "Buyers are liars." I'm guessing that's a common refrain in the sales world.

Well, I guess it is true...I am too nice. Why? Because I would never even think of suggesting to another trainer's client that they buy training from me while they are still training with the other trainer.

Last night another trainer (18 year old Christian boy, been training since April) sold a 10-pack to one of my clients right in front of me. This client and her husband had 4 starter sessions that were included with their membership. I was training her and this other trainer was working with her husband. Of the two sessions we'd completed, only one had involved a full workout, and at the time she had seemed very pleased. Monday, her next session, she left a message to cancel then caught up with me that same evening to tell me she'd been sore, that that was a good thing, but she wanted to take it easy another day or two. We rescheduled her for Thursday, then I took time to answer her supplement questions and to go over her nutrition plan. There was nothing to indicate she had any concerns.

So Tuesday night, while I was with another client, this trainer was with my client's husband, and she was hanging around nearby. I waved to her and she smiled and waved back. A little while later I noticed the three in conversation, but didn't think too much of it. When I got back to the office area the three were sitting at the very next desk and the trainer was processing a training sale. I thought at first it was for the husband...until I inquired. The husband told me the sessions were for his wife. When I confronted this trainer as he was completing the transaction (not in front of the clients), he told me she said 'she had a bad experience.' That was it.

Well, maybe she did say that and for whatever reason she decided she wanted to train with him. So, fine. I agree she has that right. I would have first asked what the problem was, defended the other trainer and encouraged the person to at least discuss the concern with the trainer directly. Then I would suggest that if they can't resolve the issue, and they still want to train with me, that they notify the fitness manager. It would never, ever occur to me to do what he did.

Does anyone think he did the right thing? That his actions were justifiable? Am I the only one that see's this as unscrupulous? Had I had the chance to talk to this client, she may very well have decided to stay with me. I didn't get that chance. The real piss off is that he has had plenty of sales this month--I am $300 short and will be fired if I don't meet my minimum by July 31. He knows this. Also...he is transferring to a club in New Jersey starting Aug. 1. He won't even be around to finish out her agreement.

Sorry for the long vent. I'm pretty pissed and not sure what my next move should be.

[Aoife]

Yup. Yer too nice.

Is sales. Don't see anything new here. He apparently at least inquired as to why not go with you, and it's not necessarily his business to push them away if they want to go with him. I don't see what his religion has to do with it.

Sucks.

You take what you can get, and the most aggressive is the most successful usually.

I "don't have money" for personal training. And I "don't have money" for regular hair appointments. I DO have money for a rather expensive gym membership, and many other things in my life. If a person has a gym membership, they prolly have money for a training package. However, they "don't have the money" because their money is being spent elsewhere. Some of them you could prolly convince that a training session is more important than new shoes or dinner at Chili's or whatever number of things they spend their money on. Some not so much. But it's true that often having no money is an "excuse." You're not dealing with a poor segment of the population. To free up people's money you have to change their priorities.

[Ian Kay]

You can be hard-nosed and still be professional.

The proper thing for him to have done would have been to take you aside before they paid, and said something like, "Your client just spoke with me, and said that for whatever reason, they don't want to continue with you. They are going to sign on with me, but I wanted to let you know now instead of do it behind your back."

All that said, I have the advantage of working in a place where we do not compete for each other's clients, so hearing about that kind of stuff doesn't sit well with me. But if that's the way your place works, you better harden up and roll with the game, or find a different - more suitable - location to work. At my place, we consider the client and the training itself first, and the business comes second. Corporate places seldom see things that way.

In my humble opinion, you should get the hell out and find some people with more respect for each other (and you). you can't easily change your own personality, and you definitely can't change how your current co-workers act. But you can change your co-workers and your environment by going somewhere else.

[Mich]

Originally Posted by msmogreen

Last night another trainer (18 year old Christian boy, been training since April) sold a 10-pack to one of my clients right in front of me. [...] Had I had the chance to talk to this client, she may very well have decided to stay with me.

Granting that there may be facts here that I am not aware of (such as informal agreement between trainers that they do not approach the clients of other trainers) here are a couple of things that occurred to me, in no particular order:

1. You had a chance to talk to this client; that chance was during the two sessions you spent training her. You mentioned that "she seemed very pleased". Did you ask her at the end of the session what she liked and what she didn't like? Did you explain to her what you were putting in her program and why? Are you sure that when she walked out of the gym she was crystal clear about the fact that you cared about her success?

2. What do his religion, age and the length of time he has been there have to do with anything?

3. It's possible that client and hubby went home, and had a conversation along the lines of:
He: "How was your session?"
She: "Fine, how was yours?"
He: "Mine was incredible. Maybe you should try my trainer. I'll buy you some sessions as a present."

4. I'm not sure that the other trainer has an obligation to you. If I go to my hair salon and make an appointment with stylist B, it is not the responsibility of stylist B to convince me I should go back to stylist A.

5. I do think that both you and the other trainer have an obligation to the gym owner and the team as a whole to keep clients satisfied and re-purchasing.

6. I also think the other trainer has an obligation to his clients to let them know that he will be leaving and that he will make sure their transition to another trainer is smooth and problem free.

7. What would "notifying the fitness manager" have achieved?

8. Would you be able to make the $300 by selling more sessions to your existing clients or do you need to bring in new ones?

Mich

[msmogreen]

Actually, I am dealing with a poor segment of the population. I am part of that segment. I don't live in an affluent area at all. 24 Hour Fitness memberships are pretty cheap and many members are pretty strapped after they sign up. Coming up with $30 a month is a little more doable for someone making 25K than coming up with $1,000 in one chunk for PT sessions. Most with training are getting it as a package deal with their membership. There are a handful with money, and I don't have a problem selling to them. We have a trainer who brags that one of her best customers has been unemployed for over a year but keeps adding training to her credit card. I wouldn't want someone that stupid as a client.

What does his religion have to do with it? Well, there is a hope that someone who wears his Christianity on his sleeve might exhibit Christian-like behavior, which used to mean something, golden rule type behavior at the very least. But I guess no such thing exists.

Why is it apparent that he inquired as to 'why not go with me'? I don't think he did that at all and there is nothing to suggest he did. I think if she said anything he jumped on it and sold her on why to go with him, while standing maybe 15 feet from me. We are constantly being told by management that we are a 'team' and we are encourage to use each other for TO's.

Okay, well. I'm too nice and this world sucks (I guess that is nothing new, either) if this kind of treatment of others is just accepted and considered smart business. Screwing others to get to the top. Just because it is done doesn't make it right.

[Jean-Paul]

Some tough love coming here:

It's not just a matter of being too nice. It's also your timid attitude with the client in the first place.

I would never lose a client to an 18 year old punk that I didn't choose to dump. Why? Because I would own that client from the moment the started talking to me. They would be so infused with confidence that they would be excited to train with me, and they would bring their spouse to ME, not to someone else.

You aren't just too nice... you just failed to impress the client. You can know what you're doing, but you have to convince them of that too, which means that you educate them along the way, explaining things like possibly getting sore.

The other trainer was an ass, but the fact is you gave him the opportunity by not convincing your client that you are exactly what she needs.

No one EVER makes a financial decision based on logic. Every big purchase is based on EMOTION! I like the phrase, "buyers are liars." It is honestly the first time I have ever heard it, but it rings true. You can't be timid and hope they like you and buy because they pity you. You close the deal by assuming the sale (start talking schedule and make them work a little to see if they're lucky enough to get on your roster).

If someone is inquiring about training, they are looking for candidates to give money to. If they have to think about it or come up with reasons not to buy from you, then you are going to lose the sale to someone else. There is no reason you shouldn't close them. What you probably don't realize is that you are sending them unconscious cues that tell them that you aren't very confident in your own abilities.

They are scared of the future... They're taking a risk and stepping out on a limb to do this. You have to acknowledge that risk and put them at ease. You have to be a little alpha-doggish because they will feel comforted knowing that you are in charge.

I hate to say it, but this is a problem that will follow you wherever you go, so changing locations won't ultimately fix your problem. The kind of place that is "too nice" to set you straight and properly train you on sales and/or training is the kind of place that won't be open long. Fix yourself and you can work wherever you want.

If you are a good trainer, then BELIEVE IT! If you don't, they won't. If you DO believe it, then you aren't "selling" anything... You are changing people's lives, and that is profound. Then you don't have to ask, "well, what do you think?" or, "Does that sound okay?" Then you say, "you want to change your life? Are you ready? I will take care of you. Let's get started tomorrow!"

Now go get 'em tiger!

[Aoife]

Why is it apparent that he inquired as to 'why not go with me'? I don't think he did that at all and there is nothing to suggest he did. I think if she said anything he jumped on it and sold her on why to go with him, while standing maybe 15 feet from me. We are constantly being told by management that we are a 'team' and we are encourage to use each other for TO's.

you said:

When I confronted this trainer as he was completing the transaction (not in front of the clients), he told me she said 'she had a bad experience.'

So either he inquired, she offered the information and therefore he didn't need to inquire, or he made something up.

[msmogreen]

Originally Posted by Mich

Granting that there may be facts here that I am not aware of (such as informal agreement between trainers that they do not approach the clients of other trainers):

Yes, I was given the impression that it is not 'okay' to step on the toes of other trainers. For example, when I first tranferred to this location a doctor I know wanted to train with me. He had an agreement already which had been assigned to another trainer, although she had not yet serviced any of his sessions. I approached my fitness manager to ask if it would be okay to switch him to me. He said, since I knew him and none of the sessions had been serviced yet, that was acceptable. If any sessions had been serviced he would not be available to me as a client. Now, if he finished his sessions with her and decided he wanted to sign with me that would be entirely different. In my situation here, we are still in the middle of training. She is on my schedule for tomorrow night and has so far not called to cancel.

1. You had a chance to talk to this client; that chance was during the two sessions you spent training her. You mentioned that "she seemed very pleased". Did you ask her at the end of the session what she liked and what she didn't like? Did you explain to her what you were putting in her program and why? Are you sure that when she walked out of the gym she was crystal clear about the fact that you cared about her success?

Actually, the first session was paperwork and goal setting. Only one actual training session during which she would comment on the seeming effectiveness of particular exercises. I didn't ask what she didn't like--I should probably start doing that. I have only been at this a year and I admit I still have a lot to learn. I did explain my rationale behind using some types of exercises vs. other types. Am I sure she was crystal clear I cared about her success? I can't say that for sure, but I did feel we'd developed a rapport and I did ask if she felt it was a good workout and she said she did. She seemed excited.

2. What do his religion, age and the length of time he has been there have to do with anything?

Nothing I guess...I was pissed because he wears his religion on his sleeve and doesn't seem to walk the walk. He's a baby who someone introduced to bodybuilding. When he started he knew nothing...I went out of my way to help him out when I could. He didn't know what the 50 on the 50+ vitamins meant. I had to explain to him how we get paid. It baffles me. Your qualifications, education and experience in life have no bearing on your value as a trainer.

3. It's possible that client and hubby went home, and had a conversation along the lines of:
He: "How was your session?"
She: "Fine, how was yours?"
He: "Mine was incredible. Maybe you should try my trainer. I'll buy you some sessions as a present."

Possible--I seriously doubt the sessions were their idea.

4. I'm not sure that the other trainer has an obligation to you. If I go to my hair salon and make an appointment with stylist B, it is not the responsibility of stylist B to convince me I should go back to stylist A.

No...but in the interest of keeping an amiable workplace, the nice thing to do would be for stylist B to give stylist A a heads up. Miss that episode of Seinfeld?

7. What would "notifying the fitness manager" have achieved?

Just seems like proper protocol. I'm not sure why it wouldn't work this way. If I were the client and I wasn't happy with my trainer it seems natural to contact management for a change. Hopefully, the FM would ascertain the reason for dissatisfaction and discuss with the trainer as part of the learning process. If this were a contract situation, that would be different but as employees who are part of a "team", seems how it should work.

8. Would you be able to make the $300 by selling more sessions to your existing clients or do you need to bring in new ones?

Yes...and I had her in mind as one of my most promising prospects. Thursday was to be my opportunity to present to her. I have a few other possibilities but I am running out of time and scrambling like mad to bring in new clients on a $99 deal. Few seem to have the money for even that. If all else fails, I will buy a 5 pack for a coworker just to save my ass.

I guess I'm living in the wrong world. It would have been natural to me to ask her why she didn't want to continue with the other trainer, even try to salvage the trainer-client relationship, before offering myself as a replacement. I know he didn't do that--I know he saw her dissatisfaction as an opportunity for him, period.

Thank you for your response, you give me some things to think about.

[msmogreen]

Originally Posted by Aoife

you said:
So either he inquired, she offered the information and therefore he didn't need to inquire, or he made something up.

I don't think it was much of an inquiry. I took your comment to mean he actually attempted to get to the bottom of the issue. I think it was more like she told him she was sore after our session and he told her if you train with me you won't be sore. After all, she cancelled on Monday due to sore muscles. Or he made it up. I did catch him once trying to get credit for supplements I'd sold. When I called him on it he pretended he hadn't just seen me doing a fitness assessment with these guys. So, who knows. It just felt underhanded to me and I felt like I'd been kicked in the gut.

[GqArtguy]

God Im glad I dont work at corporate gyms anymore.

[PowerManDL]

I feel your pain here. Sales is more of a mindset, and it's not one that comes naturally to me.

The good news is that it can be learned, but if you're not like that naturally, it'll take practice.

It takes a lot of mental gymnastics to get around the idea that you're not actually scamming or ripping off people -- you're offering them something they need. Your job is to make them understand that they need it.

JP's got it right on the nose. It's not so much the closing that's got you. You have to re-evaluate your interactions at every step of the way. If you're pushing them along towards your end-goal the entire way, then the close will just happen; there's no way they'll say no.

The good part is that if you believe in yourself and have the confidence that comes from owning your subject matter, it comes a lot easier. Remember that it's not what they know, but what they feel that matters the most.

[ohammersmith]

Here's the thing, "I don't have the money" is an easy out, but also it's a shorthand way of saying "I haven't made this a priority over other luxuries."

No one goes in and asks about training, or considers spending their baby food money on training. At worst you're making them rearrange their priorities. Maybe spend a little less on going out to the movies. In fact, probably helping them out (be healthier) in the end.

[msmogreen]

Well, you guys are all right, of course. The sales mindset is going to take a lot of effort, but I do realize I have to find a way. It will be the hardest thing I've ever done in my life. I love this job when I'm with my clients...I have a good time with all of them and have never had trouble building a rapport. But I deal with a certain amount of anxiety everyday before I go in because I know I'm being watched and judged for being lousy at sales. Everybody wants to continue training with me until they see the prices...and that's where I get stumped. That's the hump I have to get over. And I do have a tendency when I'm presenting to jump to the under $600 package because just looking at the prices of the over $1,000 packages even makes me hyperventilate.

And I know for many people it is a matter of where there money is going. I had one client who talked about how she's going to get a boob job when she loses the weight. Yet, she didn't have $579 for the 10 sessions that would get her started toward her goal...and she'd cancelled all her credit cards (this one I know well enough to know she isn't lying). When I asked her how she could talk about spending $5,000 or so on boobs but she wouldn't spend the $579 on training she explained that she can make payments on the boobs, but the training cost was one lump sum. So, I fronted her half the money and she's making payments to me. I was desperate, okay. Unfortunately, not a practical solution but just making a point that some people really don't have the cash. And those are the people I seem to attract. :-)

I really appreciate everyone's input. I was very hesitant to post--I was afraid I was going here yes, you're a wimp and I'll bet your a crappy trainer, too :-). I feel much better now.

[Aoife]

There's a reason I don't do sales. Most of the time, it sucks. At least you can rest well knowing that your services ARE a good thing for your clients. You help them become/stay healthy and fit. Imagine being a shoe salesman or something.