This is a pretty big screw-up on somebody's part. As a continuation of the earlier issues w/ guys like Jimmy and Ferrugia, where do we start drawing a line with this kind of thing?
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Alwyn is well aware of Lyle's thoughts on the matter, and pointed out in conversation a couple of months ago that he provided Lyle with quite a few (I don't know how many) of the studies Lyle drew from for his material. Alwyn also used these same studies for his products.
When two people are summarizing the same technical research what is written will often have similarities. Cosgrove is certainly smart enough, has enough experience in the field, and credibility for one to give him the benefit of the doubt on this, no?
Alwyn has helped you with advice right Matt? You know he doesn't need to rip people off to put out good info.
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That's completely f'ing ridiculous. I think Lyle needs to finally make a stand and sue for copyright infringement. And he shouldn't stop until he owns a nice chunk of the profits from WSFL.
Alwyn is well aware of Lyle's thoughts on the matter, and pointed out in conversation a couple of months ago that he provided Lyle with quite a few (I don't know how many) of the studies Lyle drew from for his material. Alwyn also used these same studies for his products.
I have given lyle hundreds to thousands of papers over the years. That must mean I can copy every single one of his books and sell them for a profit.
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When two people are summarizing the same technical research what is written will often have similarities. Cosgrove is certainly smart enough, has enough experience in the field, and credibility for one to give him the benefit of the doubt on this, no?
Nice grasping for straws. I am sure Alywn pets puppies and helps old ladies across the road too.
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Alwyn has helped you with advice right Matt?
Do you normally trot out multiple fallacies or is this a special occasion?
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You know he doesn't need to rip people off to put out good info.
It's virtually a word-for-word rip of the UD2.0 chapter.
No, and I don't own either product. I should read both in their entirety before judging.
So do you know if Lyle got any of the studies he used (and makes $$ off) from Alwyn or not? Does Lyle mention that in his book?
btw I've got nothing against Lyle. Never met him, and respect his work. But things might not be as one sided as this is made out to be.
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No, and I don't own either product. I should read both in their entirety before judging.
So do you know if Lyle got any of the studies he used (and makes $$ off) from Alwyn or not? Does Lyle mention that in his book?
btw I've got nothing against Lyle. Never met him, and respect his work. But things might not be as one sided as this is made out to be.
For fuck's sake, *I* have given Lyle papers that he uses in his books; does that mean I can take content from his books, change some words, and publish them for profit?
Do you not see how "took a chapter from a published book and changed a few words" is a wholly different matter than what you're trying to make it out to be?
This isn't about stubborn fat cardio - this is about stealing the words of others, verbatim.
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No, and I don't own either product. I should read both in their entirety before judging.
So do you know if Lyle got any of the studies he used (and makes $$ off) from Alwyn or not? Does Lyle mention that in his book?
btw I've got nothing against Lyle. Never met him, and respect his work. But things might not be as one sided as this is made out to be.
Did you even read the link that Matt posted? It's broken down there paragraph by paragraph...first Lyle posts the text from his book, then directly following it he posts what Alwyn wrote (sorry..cut and pasted) in his. And it's almost word for freaking word. That's not a matter of having read the same studies and drawn the same conclusions.
I'm honestly surprised ... I know you haters have a thing for Alwyn, but when I saw him in Boston and he talked about the Hierarchy of Fat Loss, he mentioned the SFP and he credited Lyle for it during his talk.
It is surprising to me that in one instance he credits Lyle, but in another doesn't. He also doesn't seem the type to copy-paste like that. Perhaps he wasn't as responsible for the actual writing of the book as much as for just the programming. (Sort of like in NROL and NROL4W). I don't have WSFL, I haven't read it, so I don't know, just theorizing.
That is f'ed up though ... and if I were Lyle, I'd not only be royally pissed off, but I'd be considering legal action.
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This looks like the stuff you do in high school with your friends history paper, not good.
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This is sort of off topic but Lyle says that his Stubborn Fat Loss protocol is in the New Rules of Lifting. I read the book, and I don't remember that. What exactly is he referring to there? Anyone know?
All I remember are three fat loss workouts using standard metcon work.
Never really been a hater. Check my posts if you'd like. I liked Alwyn for awhile but his participation in the internet marketing thing, i.e. recommending his friends products, them recommending his, really turned me off. I think he has been really disingenuous. He's pathetic. Frankly, not exactly sure why he gets so much credit for being such a great trainer. NROL? Gimme a break. A ton of people have done Body for Life and gotten great results. Big deal.
Got the RSS feed this morning....not cool, not cool at all. Lyle may be a bit eccentric, but he does his research and gives credit where credit's due (Dan Duchaine, for example). I do hope Lyle follows this whole deal through legally...I'm sure he'll win it.
Let me start by saying that I don't know Alwyn personally at all. I don't know anyone well who can say that they know him well, either, beyond some business interactions. As such, I can't speak for the man's morals.
HOWEVER, I think there must be a bit more to the situation than is currently meeting the eye. It's obvious that there's a pretty heavy paraphrasing job at best and a copy and paste at worst going on.
I can't see Alwyn being that dumb, though. He strikes me as a pretty sharp guy, especially when it comes to money and covering his own ass. He is about as much a public figure as anyone in this industry (the fitness information product industry), and though Lyle isn't as big a figure, he's quite well known. I can't see someone of Alwyn's stature doing that and somehow thinking that it's not going to be discovered and called out.
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I thought Mike Roussell wrote WSFL, and Alwyn just kind of put his name and marketing muscle on it? And both NROLs were written by Lou Schuler?
(Not that it's any excuse for plagiarism, of course.)
There is one commonality between those products, correct?
IMO when you put your name on something then that means that you're putting your name on something. It represents you. If "I" found out that someone I was associating with and putting my name out that, that person was a good guy and represents what I think is good and right in the world, blatantly ripped someone off I would issue a statement in 2 seconds stating my case and ripping someone a new ass...publicly. But that's me and I'm a weirdo. Of course I don't claim other people that blatantly stole from other people (cough Jimmy\Jay cough) as my go to guys either.
About fucking time he said something. People are quick to judge this as hating, but really, I dont know Alwyn, Jimmy Smythe, or any of these self proclaimed gurus in the circle jerk club. But I do see what they put out, I do see what they do to promote themselves, I do see a pattern among them, and I do see that much of it is bullshit.
Call it hate if you want, but in other professions I dont believe there would be so much 'rationalization' and a willingness to let things slide. Maybe it was Jimmy's webmaster from India who was involved in this?
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Manny, I didn't mean for it to sound like I thought this was hating ... I just meant that in the past there has been some hate for Alwyn.
This sounds/looks/smells like plagiarism ...
And honestly, does it really matter WHO did the actual writing? If you go to the long-form-letter marketing page, it reads like a letter FROM Alwyn. So if he didn't do the actual writing and the actual plagiarizing, he still allowed his name to be attached to it. And I find it hard to believe that he hadn't read UD2.0 and wouldn't recognize the copy/edit/paste job.
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I have no dog in this fight per se - but I will raise the possibility that similar text like this could also be due to two distinct paraphrasings of a third (and unreferenced) source or textbook.
Another Guru plagiarist case
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