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Okay, I'll come up with a different example. It is the context I was talking about.
I heard a rumor (3rd hand) that someone posted a picture of Alwyn's disabled niece taken from his blog with a photoshopped erection in her face. (If this is false then I apologize in advance for bringing it up). If this is true, it is very classless. I don't care how "wild-west" the atmosphere is on that site, that is completely unacceptable, and allowing a post like that to go up for a good laugh goes beyond bad taste.
So when presented with background like this, how am I supposed to think anything else except that I am witnessing a one-sided feud? Say what you want about Alwyn, but at least he apologized for what he did to Lyle and his readers, and he has kept a cool head during this debacle. He hasn't blogged or emailed his "list" to blackball or to attack Lyle or even to defend himself. He never even said a word when one of his family member's photo was desecrated (if that rumor is true).
Okay, I'll come up with a different example. It is the context I was talking about.
I heard a rumor (3rd hand) that someone posted a picture of Alwyn's disabled niece taken from his blog with a photoshopped erection in her face. (If this is false then I apologize in advance for bringing it up). If this is true, it is very classless. I don't care how "wild-west" the atmosphere is on that site, that is completely unacceptable, and allowing a post like that to go up for a good laugh goes beyond bad taste.
I haven't seen that. Not unless it slipped in since last night.
Despite how classless some people seem to feel we are, it tends to stay centered on the person in question. Frankly I don't see a point in taking eyes off the target; if somebody's done something wrong there's more than enough ammo to work with. In other words, going after family or other similar low-blows is off limits.
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So when presented with background like this, how am I supposed to think anything else except that I am witnessing a one-sided feud? Say what you want about Alwyn, but at least he apologized for what he did to Lyle and his readers, and he has kept a cool head during this debacle. He hasn't blogged or emailed his "list" to blackball or to attack Lyle or even to defend himself. He never even said a word when one of his family member's photo was desecrated (if that rumor is true).
Alwyn didn't have any grounds to do such a thing, but if the shoe were reversed and somebody'd epically stolen something from him, you can believe we'd be jumping on whomever had done the stealing.
It seems to keep getting boiled down to loyalty, as if we're on Lyle's side and others are on Alwyn's side. The only side here is who's involved in shadiness and who isn't. Beyond that there's no agenda.
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The "Alwyn got owned" thing was posted in response to this:
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Originally Posted by lylemcd
and the single most telling flaw in the 'Al is smart enough to have written this but didn't' is this, when he presents the stubborn fat protocol in WSFL he gets it wrong.
I guess he didn't save that email from me
***
what he wrote
"Studies have shown an increase in circulating blood triglycerides after high
intensity exercise. So we burned off calories during high intensity exercises
AND released fat from the cells. But if we don’t burn off that circulating fat – it
will redeposit itself. We need to avoid that at all costs.
"
***
this is wrong. studies show that there is an increase in circulating FREE FATTY ACIDS a few minutes after the cessation of high intensity exercise
bottom line: he doesn't understand this information and he certainly has NOT read the studies
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I haven't seen that. Not unless it slipped in since last night.
Despite how classless some people seem to feel we are, it tends to stay centered on the person in question. Frankly I don't see a point in taking eyes off the target; if somebody's done something wrong there's more than enough ammo to work with. In other words, going after family or other similar low-blows is off limits.
Thanks for the clarification. I would agree that that it would be considered an off-limits kinda thing. As I stated, if the rumor is untrue, then I apologize. I didn't see it personally.
Picture = I have a friend, who's brother saw Alywn eat the head off of a baby...swear to god.
Silence = He'd be on the losing end if he said anything. If he doesn't say\do anything then it'll get swept under the rug faster. If he makes a big deal out of it he'll have to swim against the current of evidence. IMO him not making an effort to defend himself if a PR move, not a class one.
Losing customers = IMO there's a difference in between alienating customers that you already have and alienating customers that you don't already have. People likely have heard Lyle's name and a product or two that never have before, and considering that he's not getting credited properly in his work probably never would have heard of him. So people that would have never heard of him as long as they live now know that he's a meany head, and produces the best dieting\nutrition material that money can buy.
Picture = I have a friend, who's brother saw Alywn eat the head off of a baby...swear to god.
Point taken. I mentioned that it was third hand and unconfirmed. So that killed yet another point. As I said though, if that was false, I apologize for even bringing it up.
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if somebody's done something wrong there's more than enough ammo to work with.
Exactly. So all the soap opera and Springer-esque emotion surrounding this issue has actually distracted from the main point. You don't need to "hate" on someone if you're in the right... It will all come out in the wash.
I'm done for now... As you pointed out Matt, we have discussed this issue to the point of becoming partisan. My original intent was to dispassionately examine this. I think everyone has made their cases. I'm hopeful that Alwyn and Lyle will at least work out their differences and we'll have a return to normalcy on the our tiny circle of forums.
The partisanship in this thread is pretty obvious. It's odd that I see many making excuses for Alwyn or doing what they can do give him the benefit of the doubt, meanwhile implying Lyle has less than noble ambitions in bringing this to light. It's as if people are forgetting who really did something wrong here.
Alwyn's always seemed the more likeable of the two. I don't like how he is held in a higher regard than others who are equally or more deserving, imo, but for a long time I liked his persona. He's always seemed like a good trainer and a positive source of information. He's certainly great at marketing. I remember back when I read the weights group Lyle was often an ass unnecessarily, though that seems to have toned down. At the same time, he's been a solid researcher and a good source of info. Lyle's come across to me as being an honest guy, sometimes painfully so to some. The fact that he isn't so concerned with marketing is actually refreshing to me because too many products in our society succeed on marketing instead of the quality of the product. I do not know either of these guys and really, that shouldn't matter much. Charisma is playing too much into peoples' opinions when it really should be the smallest consideration. The devil would be the nicest person you ever met.
Having permission to use the info in one product doesn't automatically give him the right to use it in other products, especially without crediting it. Imagine I was making a movie and got permission from John Williams to use his songs in the movie, then a year or two later I decided to use the same songs in another movie. That is the equivalent here. For better or worse, such a practice isn't acceptable without permission.
Maybe Lyle should take legal action instead of (or in addition to) posting this incident on his blog. But that can be a pretty costly venture and the time and trouble might not make it worth it. Maybe Alwyn knew that and knew Lyle wasn't likely to go that route? Maybe it really was just a lazy oversight? Regardless, a simple apology after the fact really doesn't mean much unless $ and/or crediting the info is part of it. Alwyn copying and pasting from Lyle is more childish than Lyle posting about it on his blog. I think it's a good thing Lyle brought this to light. As consumers we should know when things like this happen and protest appropriately with our wallets.
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I remember back when I read the weights group Lyle was often an ass unnecessarily, though that seems to have toned down. At the same time, he's been a solid researcher and a good source of info.
I wanted to use this as a jumping off point for a couple of observations based on my participation over the past couple of months on Lyle's forums. First is that he can still sometimes be an ass at times -- a "meaniehead" as some people have said -- but one thing I've noticed about it is that it is usually (not always, but usually) directed at stupidity, by which I mean intellectual laziness, sloppiness, or dishonesty. People with know-it-all claims that aren't factually/scientifically based are gonna know it in pretty short order. At the same time, he's very helpful with answering questions that people honestly have, or engaging in give & take discussion with people who are intelligent about their own approach to sharing information & opinions. He might not be all warm & fuzzy in how he does it, with all kinds of pats on the back & reassurances & handholding, but that commitment to helping others achieve their fitness/health goals is still there. I don't really care if he's not all warm & fuzzy about it. Even if I might wince at the occasional "meanieheadedness."
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Lyle's come across to me as being an honest guy, sometimes painfully so to some.
Some people will say some variation on "you hurt my feelings." Others will say some variation on "you're insulting my intelligence" -- & will feel that insult every bit as viscerally as the person whose feelings were hurt. Fidelity to the truth as defined by fact & by science is a powerful motivator for honesty & intellectual integrity -- though it might not turn the person into a great diplomat.
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The fact that he isn't so concerned with marketing is actually refreshing to me because too many products in our society succeed on marketing instead of the quality of the product.
By gods the email newsletters he puts out are always full of information -- well thought-out, well-written, useful information -- not just the chatty little excuses for further product promotion that some other fitness gurus churn out. (Note: I'm not talking about Alwyn here -- I have no idea what his newsletters are like. The person I have in mind -- hey, I like your products, but I've already bought 'em so by gods stop trying to sell them to me again, ad nauseum!)
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Alwyn copying and pasting from Lyle is more childish than Lyle posting about it on his blog. I think it's a good thing Lyle brought this to light. As consumers we should know when things like this happen and protest appropriately with our wallets.
That's the bottom line.
-- Mel
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Female, 49, 5 ft. 2-1/4; insulin resistant/prediabetic/PCOS
Started 210 lbs/95 kilos | Current 177 lbs/80.5 kilos | Goal ~140 lbs/64 kilos
Wow. There goes any respect I would have had for Alwyn...
And I really don't think there's any other way to put it, he bloody copied an entire chapter from another published book. I really don't see him having a good excuse for that one!
I wanted to use this as a jumping off point for a couple of observations based on my participation over the past couple of months on Lyle's forums. First is that he can still sometimes be an ass at times -- a "meaniehead" as some people have said -- but one thing I've noticed about it is that it is usually (not always, but usually) directed at stupidity, by which I mean intellectual laziness, sloppiness, or dishonesty. People with know-it-all claims that aren't factually/scientifically based are gonna know it in pretty short order. At the same time, he's very helpful with answering questions that people honestly have, or engaging in give & take discussion with people who are intelligent about their own approach to sharing information & opinions. He might not be all warm & fuzzy in how he does it, with all kinds of pats on the back & reassurances & handholding, but that commitment to helping others achieve their fitness/health goals is still there. I don't really care if he's not all warm & fuzzy about it. Even if I might wince at the occasional "meanieheadedness."
I'll second this. I've learned more from there in the past year or so than I have any other place or any other time. The majority of the time if you're a retard then you're treated like one. If you're a contributer then you're treated like one. The two aren't exclusive
I'll second this. I've learned more from there in the past year or so than I have any other place or any other time. The majority of the time if you're a retard then you're treated like one. If you're a contributer then you're treated like one. The two aren't exclusive
So which of those two categories do you fall into?
Lyle should have contacted Alwyn directly and asked him about this matter before posting everywhere.
Anyone else would have done this right?
I know personally first hand where someone had copied Alwyn's material and he just contacted them directly to rectify the matter. No blogging, no forum posts.
This is Lyle "small mans syndrome" showing up again.
Lyle should have contacted Alwyn directly and asked him about this matter before posting everywhere.
Anyone else would have done this right?
I know personally first hand where someone had copied Alwyn's material and he just contacted them directly to rectify the matter. No blogging, no forum posts.
This is Lyle "small mans syndrome" showing up again.
No, that point has been raised ad nauseum. What hasn't been said is exactly why Lyle ought to have done that. I know this first hand.
Lyle should have contacted Alwyn directly and asked him about this matter before posting everywhere.
Anyone else would have done this right?
I know personally first hand where someone had copied Alwyn's material and he just contacted them directly to rectify the matter. No blogging, no forum posts.
This is Lyle "small mans syndrome" showing up again.
Why should he have done that?
So your guru can keep face? After he's repeatedly "borrowed" material from Lyle, in multiple products?
This is "anonymous internet hero" showing up again. Now with extra illiteracy!
I like this game!
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The fact of the matter he had permission and it did not specify what it can be used in. It was not limited to just the one project.
LOL WUT?
In what world does "permission given two years ago for some other product" translate to "permission to use whenever I feel like, and oh btw I forgot to credit lol"?
Which also hasn't touched on the alleged "summary" being a 4th grader's word for word rip-off, for lie #2
And the coup-de-gras, the use of another of Lyle's concept by outright re-naming it and pretending it came from Teh Pubmedz!
Sounds like you've got a case of the apologism. You should have that looked at.
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Why should Lyle do this? Because this is the normal practice in business.
Probably because Lyle's got a better sense of ethics than to just hurr hurr, pat the crook on the back, and pretend everything's all fine and everybody's all friendly and upstanding.
This sounds like more defense for a broken business model, hiding behind the disguise of "professionalism", than anything else.
The fact that people aren't willing to call a spade a spade is why this kind of stuff happens in the first place. But as long as there's money to be made, it won't change.
You can justify it by whining about professionalism all day long. It doesn't make the act any less reprehensible.
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Articles | Blog | Pirate my book. "Yeah, but you did your post grad thesis on trolling, so you don't count."
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Optimum: Would you mind introducing yourself to the site before diving in and "stirring the pot", so to speak? This was a dead issue here so unless there's something really interesting or new on the subject, perhaps you could drop it again?
Optimum: Would you mind introducing yourself to the site before diving in and "stirring the pot", so to speak? This was a dead issue here so unless there's something really interesting or new on the subject, perhaps you could drop it again?
I didn't realize any post over 2 weeks is regarded as a dead post
Well, let's just say that this is one that I am personally tired of. I am not one to censor civil debate, but everything said on this page so far has been said 50 times on all the pages that precede it, so it feels like we're beating a dead horse and rehashing something that has been discussed to death. Since you weren't here I guess it isn't as fresh on your memory.
BTW, welcome to the forums. Glad to have you here. Are you from the site linked below in the linkbacks (there is one from a site called Optimum Performance)?
Well, let's just say that this is one that I am personally tired of. I am not one to censor civil debate, but everything said on this page so far has been said 50 times on all the pages that precede it, so it feels like we're beating a dead horse and rehashing something that has been discussed to death. Since you weren't here I guess it isn't as fresh on your memory.
BTW, welcome to the forums. Glad to have you here. Are you from the site linked below in the linkbacks (there is one from a site called Optimum Performance)?
You don't remember me do you? We met at Ryan Lee's bootcamp.
Unless you introduced yourself as Mr. Performance, Optimum Performance, then no, I don't. What's your name?
Are you going this year? I am strongly thinking about it. What is the date again? I know it's in Sept. If I come again this year come re-introduce yourself. Took you long enough to get over here didn't it?
Unless you introduced yourself as Mr. Performance, Optimum Performance, then no, I don't. What's your name?
Are you going this year? I am strongly thinking about it. What is the date again? I know it's in Sept. If I come again this year come re-introduce yourself. Took you long enough to get over here didn't it?
I was living in Asia at the time. Based in Singapore.
We talking about setting you up with equipment but I never heard back from you. I manufacture in China.
I can make it this year as I am presenting in Asia.
I did get to both Perform Better Summits - in Providence and Long Beach.
Wow... So glad you found your way to this forum! I lost your card. I actually have a partner interested in doing a big bulk order on bumper plates and k-bells with me. I was so distraught when I realized I couldn't figure out how to track you down.
PM me all your current contact info (cell phone included). We'll talk soon. Are you still doing the equipment thing?
I didn't make the PB summits this year. Made it to Chicago last year and loved it. Couldn't pull it off this year though. Almost did Long Beach but have been involved in a major deal that has me completely tied up until it closes.
Didn't you live in Singapore or something like that? My brother is moving there this week.
Glad to have you aboard. Welcome to America too! How recently did you make the move?
Wow... So glad you found your way to this forum! I lost your card. I actually have a partner interested in doing a big bulk order on bumper plates and k-bells with me. I was so distraught when I realized I couldn't figure out how to track you down.
PM me all your current contact info (cell phone included). We'll talk soon. Are you still doing the equipment thing?
I didn't make the PB summits this year. Made it to Chicago last year and loved it. Couldn't pull it off this year though. Almost did Long Beach but have been involved in a major deal that has me completely tied up until it closes.
Didn't you live in Singapore or something like that? My brother is moving there this week.
Glad to have you aboard. Welcome to America too! How recently did you make the move?
Great memory for the name.
Not British, Kiwi (New Zealand) but was living in Singapore at the time.
Been here 3 months now. Just doing education for the PT's in one of the gym chains here. Just finish some workshops the other week and now they want my 6 day CPT program which we start in a few weeks.
I will PM you my details and give you more info regarding equipment.
Actually have a full container of equipment arriving in a few weeks. All the good stuff, bumper plates, proper Olympic bars, etc. This is to fit out a studio my GF is opening. We actuall have 5 oversized power racks for they studio - don't know how we going to fit everything in.
Will send you some pics of the equipment so you can get an idea of what is avaliable.
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