This is exactly why I don't understand why some people aren't getting this. Research papers are notoriously dull and dry (except to geeks like Lyle that love them); it's just the data, the process for extracting that data, and a short conclusion as to what that data might mean.
Hell yeah. They are utterly devoid of literary appeal. Those that can bridge the gap between research collator and creative writing are few and far between.
Lou Schuler is a rare man. His position is secure as long as he doesn't engage in any journalistic shenanigans.
This is the entire text of the doc as it comes up:
Quote:
Baa, Baa, black sheep, are your kidneys full?
Luft FC.
Franz Volhard Clinic, HELIOS Klinikum, Medical Faculty of the Charité, Humboldt University of Berlin, Wiltberg Strasse 50, 13125 Berlin, Germany. luft@fvk-berlin.de
PMID: 12730333 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
PMCID: PMC2342981
There's a whole lot learnin' in those words, if you imagine and believe hard enough.
This is the entire text of the doc as it comes up:
There's a whole lot learnin' in those words, if you imagine and believe hard enough.
Just remember, Rainman had a talent, unlike you
If you had any talent you would understand there are no abstracts presented in Pubmed for editorials.
But then, if you had any talent, you would understand what was the point of the post, but then obviously you have no talent, therefore, you dont understand what the point of the post was.
I gotta say, I think it seems pretty clear to me. Way too similar. And, this is highly disappointing, to say the least. For those of you who purchased WSFL, has anyone requested a refund based on this evidence? I'm debating on whether or not to request one.
Jane, why would you feel entitled to a refund? You purchased a product and were satisfied with the result. The original author is the one harmed here, not anyone who purchased the product.
__________________ 'I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day. ' ~Frank Sinatra
WARNING: The consumption of alcohol may create the illusion that you are tougher,
smarter, faster and better looking than most people.
I understand that you feel somehow wronged. But, wouldn't that be like asking for a refund on your worn out Nikes when you found out that they were made by underpaid 13 year old girls in Viet Nam? What good does it do the girls unless you send them the money?
__________________ 'I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day. ' ~Frank Sinatra
WARNING: The consumption of alcohol may create the illusion that you are tougher,
smarter, faster and better looking than most people.
You could buy UD2, the stubborn fat book, and the rapid fat loss book for only a little more than WSFL would have cost. You'd get immensely more information in the process.
That option doesn't offer quite the same hand-holding walkthrough, but in terms of pure information, well....you'd be hard-pressed to do better.
__________________
Articles | Blog | Pirate my book. "Yeah, but you did your post grad thesis on trolling, so you don't count."
-JP, endorsing how awesome I am
I admit, my talent is not interpreting the humor of idiot savants and I don't frequent pubmed. Gobbla's saving grace is that he has kids and is able to decypher such disconnected jokes.
Your talent is severely focused, like any typical idiot savant, to the point of lacking any communication, social or diplomacy skills. You are in fact a complete social zero.
You could buy UD2, the stubborn fat book, and the rapid fat loss book for only a little more than WSFL would have cost. You'd get immensely more information in the process.
That option doesn't offer quite the same hand-holding walkthrough, but in terms of pure information, well....you'd be hard-pressed to do better.
that's so true, Jane. Lyle's books are best I've come across. My starving mind simply inhaled them. I successfully used what I've learned from them. I found I don't need to look for another fat loss (or maintenance, or muscle building for that matter) book. I think you'll find The Guide to Flexible Dieting, UD2, The Rapid Fat Loss Handbook, and The Ketogenic Diet books extremely helpful.
Stepping in to request that line of discussion ends and we get back to the original topic. Cyco and Cynic, I think you may have misunderstood each other. A simple case of internet communication gone bad. Let's keep it civil. Thanks.
Your talent is severely focused, like any typical idiot savant, to the point of lacking any communication, social or diplomacy skills. You are in fact a complete social zero.
No, I do not have any special skills that allow me to avoid any of those. Just as it is not my special skill that you appear to be complete unable to understand information on the internet.
If it wasn't for your ability to actually attach an avatar on your login, I would swear that you had all of the grace and skill of of a WebTV user. Even though these people are barely one step above cro-magnon navel lint, I am sure you have developed a higher level of functioning than this. Perhaps, graduating to t-nationer.
Stepping in to request that line of discussion ends and we get back to the original topic. Cyco and Cynic, I think you may have misunderstood each other. A simple case of internet communication gone bad. Let's keep it civil. Thanks.
No misunderstanding. Cynic gets upset that he creates his own strawmen and gets called on it.
I gotta say, I think it seems pretty clear to me. Way too similar. And, this is highly disappointing, to say the least. For those of you who purchased WSFL, has anyone requested a refund based on this evidence? I'm debating on whether or not to request one.
I am thinking of requesting a refund. True, the program worked, but I think we were mislead to believe that the program was created entirely by the original authors. I don't like paying money to someone only to find out that they were fraudulent in their work. Especially when all they care about is taking our money......
Requesting a refund at this point is being hasty. You paid for a product. You used it and it worked.
If there is fraud involved, let Lyle follow the formal legal process. You are not the victim here. Yes, you are entitled to be disappointed, so if you have strong feelings about it, vote with your wallet in future purchases.
I am thinking of requesting a refund. True, the program worked, but I think we were mislead to believe that the program was created entirely by the original authors. I don't like paying money to someone only to find out that they were fraudulent in their work. Especially when all they care about is taking our money......
I just read on another message board where someone requested a refund for WSFL and they are getting their money back, so if you feel strongly about it, I would try.
__________________
Ginger
"The miracle isn't that I finished. The miracle is that I had the courage to start." ~ John Bingham
Now, is there ANY possible way people like Aoife and Cynic can post their 2 cents worth without being attacked personally by Lyle's henchmen? I'm not defending Alwyn or Aoife's or Cynic's views in particular... but simply insulting anyone with a different viewpoint (right or wrong) is tiresome and a perfect example of a lack of maturity.
If I didn't know better, it would seem that those of you with so much knowledge about the research need to get your faces out of the books for a moment and go learn how to communicate with PEOPLE.
There's really no way I can respond to this, even civilly, without being accused of more "attacks".
Heavy emphasis on the quotes there, and the echo of my earlier comments that attacking a poor argument is not attacking the person, but I'll leave it at that for the sake of not causing a further 10-page spiral of arguing over semantics.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian Kay
I agree it all looks very bad for Alwyn/Mike.
Now, is there ANY possible way people like Aoife and Cynic can post their 2 cents worth without being attacked personally by Lyle's henchmen? I'm not defending Alwyn or Aoife's or Cynic's views in particular... but simply insulting anyone with a different viewpoint (right or wrong) is tiresome and a perfect example of a lack of maturity.
If I didn't know better, it would seem that those of you with so much knowledge about the research need to get your faces out of the books for a moment and go learn how to communicate with PEOPLE.
__________________
Articles | Blog | Pirate my book. "Yeah, but you did your post grad thesis on trolling, so you don't count."
-JP, endorsing how awesome I am
I think you mistake Aoife's posts as defense for Alwyn and Mike, and I didn't read it that way at all. I think she is simply saying that this is akin to a lynch mob, and that rather than getting swept up in all the emotion, she will presume innocence until a proper legal process proves guilt.
Lyle's point in his blog is hard to deny, but until I have either taken the time to read both copies myself or read a legal decision that states it was plagiarism, I will also reserve judgment. So you're making it about being "right" and she's arguing something completely different. That doesn't make you wrong, which is what you apparently think she's arguing.
There's really no way I can respond to this, even civilly, without being accused of more "attacks".
Heavy emphasis on the quotes there, and the echo of my earlier comments that attacking a poor argument is not attacking the person, but I'll leave it at that for the sake of not causing a further 10-page spiral of arguing over semantics.
Stuff like this, directed at Aoife:
"I cant tell if you're kidding, or just insane."
with the follow-up:
"Hmm, insanity must have been the correct option"
and
"Why this is even in question, by anyone literate that is, I don't know."
The whole Cyko-Cynic argument went both ways, so I won't get into that. It's just the constant knock-down phrases to those with other opinions. Seems people that disagree with you (PMDL) or Cykomiko and perhaps a few others are either "insane", "illterate", or some variation of "intarnets losers" (or whatever the hell it is you guys say), or "bros".
I just wonder if you all have these seem attitudes outside the realm of internet fitness.
Jane, why would you feel entitled to a refund? You purchased a product and were satisfied with the result. The original author is the one harmed here, not anyone who purchased the product.
This might be an interesting question but in light of the unconditional satisfaction guarantee the product carries, I doubt it has much practical importance.
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