Most of my clients (past and present) are women. I find that working with men is easier. I think this is mostly because I can relate to their bodies and goals better. Oddly enough I've always gotten along with women more than men.
I would love to hear from the women (trainers or not) about what male trainers do wrong with female clients. I feel like my program design is off some and I would really like to dial it in.
Most of my clients come to me to lose weight and "get in shape". I typically start with a jm as warmup or a light bodyweight circuit of some kind. I then do a strength training portion and then a higher paced circuit or cardio routine. I finish with a cool down of some kinds usually stretching with bands.
Any resources (blogs, books, sites, etc.) on helping my female clients would be really appreciated. Thanks.
Honestly, I dont train my female clients all that differently from men. They all do the basic lifts and get pushed on those lifts based on their experience and abilities.
I also use things like KB's, SM equipment, medicine balls, bands, etc. I do find that women love the KB's more because they feel theyre getting their cardio and weights in. Guys like the SM stuff.
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"The strongest steel goes through the hottest fires."-Anonymous
"When you begin to believe nothing is heavy, all weights become light." -Rossbow
"Just remember, somewhere there is a little Chinese girl warming up with your max."-Jim Convroy
"It's a round hole, dammit. Everyone fits."--Anonymous Mod at Strengthmill
The trick with women is to make sure you always stick to low weights and high reps, to tone them up. Girls that lift heavy weights get bulky and unfeminine, like those girls that use steroids.
Also you need them to do lots of cardio, to make sure they keep that muscle away and stay skinny.
This should be common knowledge.
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The trick with women is to make sure you always stick to low weights and high reps, to tone them up. Girls that lift heavy weights get bulky and unfeminine, like those girls that use steroids.
Also you need them to do lots of cardio, to make sure they keep that muscle away and stay skinny.
This should be common knowledge.
Not to rain on your parade, but trying to use high reps and low weights to "tone" (and don't even get me started on the inability for someone to tone a muscle) is one of the biggest myths around. Along with lots of cardio to stay skinny. Honestly, are you being serious?
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I'd have you know that women and men have DIFFERENT bodies, and women all wish to be skinny and svelte so that they may attract a mate. Therefore, they need high reps to tone up their bodies.
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The trick with women is to make sure you always stick to low weights and high reps, to tone them up. Girls that lift heavy weights get bulky and unfeminine, like those girls that use steroids.
Also you need them to do lots of cardio, to make sure they keep that muscle away and stay skinny.
This should be common knowledge.
Thank you. That is exactly what I was looking for.
Honestly, I dont train my female clients all that differently from men. They all do the basic lifts and get pushed on those lifts based on their experience and abilities.
I also use things like KB's, SM equipment, medicine balls, bands, etc. I do find that women love the KB's more because they feel theyre getting their cardio and weights in. Guys like the SM stuff.
I don't feel that I train my female clients all that differently from the guys either. I know the whole tone/lightweight/highrep is bs and I could now talk about magazines and their role in blah blah blah blah.
What do the women think? How would/do they design programs for their female clients? I always hear men tell me how to train women.
Now I know you're joking... Though you really shouldn't post things like that, people might think you're serious, and expect to "tone" muscles. I thought this article explained it nicely. Training workout tone muscle
The word “tone” can be defined as the state of your muscles mainly at resting time. While resting, our muscles are in a steady state of limited contraction in order to be ready for action at any time. The “tone” of our muscles is controlled by reflex action, so you cannot change it by working out with weights a certain way.
During the years of our civilization, we have defined the word “tone” to mean how slim we are. What is the look of our muscle? In fact, it is sometimes a gender specific word even. Women work out in the gym to “tone up” themselves. It means the curves of their body have to be determined by their effort. Men go to the gym to lift weights. And, it means the six pack abs and the biceps as well as triceps. Do you really want to know the fact? To be honest, both the genders are doing exactly the same thing.
It is not possible to modify our muscle longer without surgical intervention. And you cannot scratch it into a definitive shape or look. If your objective is to spot your muscles by onlookers, your goal is not toning up yourself-it is losing your body fat.
Most of the exercises we do regularly will help us to tone our muscles. Naturally, our workout program should comprise of a combination of stretching, aerobic and weight training exercises. With the intention of building muscle mass rather than sharpening up or toning our existing muscles, we have to do some weight training/ resistance training exercises. It is to be expected that we can add a hefty amount of muscle bulk. Weight training exercises are about twice as useful as aerobic workouts to build muscle and toning up ourselves.
There are many exercises to opt from which can be of help in toning most of the areas of the body parts ranging from exercises of the leg to chest exercises. However, it is fairly possible to tone our entire body by just performing three fundamental workouts. Toning our body with smaller number of training means, extra time could be spent to burn the unwanted fat. In addition, sometimes if time is inadequate, a swift body workout probably is better than not doing any workout at all.
Toning of our body can be best obtained by doing basic muscle building exercises. The best probable exercises to tone the body quickly are squatting exercises, bench presses and chin ups (a rowing movement can be just as effective as chins) performed simultaneously in the same workout procedure. These are anaerobic exercises. They help in burning carbohydrates mainly for want of energy. In addition, they stress various different muscle groups at the same time.
To be more toned and defined, you are required to dispose of more of the fat that is covering your muscle bulk. It is clear-cut that you need to do weightlifting for the muscle building part. But, that is all the weightlifting is meant for. Therefore, high reps or low reps, light weight or heavy weight, machines or free weights, none of these are a factor when it comes to the almighty "tone and definition." You need to calculate rationally your training workout to up your muscle.
The trick with women is to make sure you always stick to low weights and high reps, to tone them up. Girls that lift heavy weights get bulky and unfeminine, like those girls that use steroids.
Also you need them to do lots of cardio, to make sure they keep that muscle away and stay skinny.
This should be common knowledge.
KILLING ME....really....ROFL....
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Originally Posted by RyanA
What do the women think? How would/do they design programs for their female clients? I always hear men tell me how to train women.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RyanA
What do the women think? How would/do they design programs for their female clients? I always hear men tell me how to train women.
Ok...I'm a woman...who trains 3x a week...my goal is weight loss. I prefer to train like "men do". I currently have a trainer who I had to talk some sense into because I was frustrated with all his little weights and ridiculously high reps. We now do a more challenging workout that makes me feel better. I prefer to lift heavier, and keep things moving...it makes me feel more accomplished...that may be just me tho! I mostly do cardio on my own...aside from a boxing session on Fridays with pad training...cause I like to hit stuff....
I go into the gym (or my exercise room), pick up heavy stuff, put it back down, and repeat. When I hire a trainer, I want a program I can do by myself for a bit, then come back to the trainer for a refresh.
I'm prolly not the best woman to ask, since I don't normally find the idea of hiring a trainer for every workout to be an entertaining one. I'm really way too focused to actually interact with someone, plus if you ask my trainer I'm a HYOOGE pain in the ass. I like to make wisecracks about paying someone to count my reps for me. Then he punishes me with obnoxious exercises. It's a delicate balance.
Ok...I'm a woman...who trains 3x a week...my goal is weight loss. I prefer to train like "men do".
I'm probably over analyzing this. I've got a new client that I'm also working with in a new space. I've been feeling like we weren't quite clicking.
I guess I'm looking for more than "training like men do". I've been thinking a lot about program design for both men and women. Other than my NASM book, Starting Strength and a few random others I don't feel like I have a lot of good examples. I've only been doing this since last Summer/Fall. Though I have worked with some good trainers I wish that I'd had (or will meet) a mentor for training.
Anyway, here's an example of what I did with my client tonight. It's one day of a two day split.
Here's what we did tonight:
warmup circuit x3:
overhead squat using dowel, halos with 8kg kb, and pump (downward dog into upward dog)
strength:
Superset (x5) body rows on trx sysem x3 and db overhead press db x5.
SLDL using db's 5x5
Circuit x4:
20 kb swings
mountain climber x20
bosu toe taps (seemingly lame exercise but worth doing)
3 min. walk on tread mill
10 mins. of stretching with band
I had gone to him initially to improve my squat, which was stuck at just under 100. (Among other things, of course, like lose a few pounds, etc.)
One of the things he did after I got mouthy was stuck me on the freemotion squat machine, and had me do 5+5bounce x3 for 3 sets. Basically, 5 full squats, then go down, bounce below that parallel point (basically all way down to just below parallel, my typical sticking point) and then 5 more squats, 5 bounces, 5 squats, 5 bounces. Then 2 more sets.
I shut up.
fwiw... it really was helpful...
in um... well... I'll bet it's a great exercise for wanna-be pr0n stars.
I'm probably over analyzing this. I've got a new client that I'm also working with in a new space. I've been feeling like we weren't quite clicking.
I guess I'm looking for more than "training like men do". I've been thinking a lot about program design for both men and women. Other than my NASM book, Starting Strength and a few random others I don't feel like I have a lot of good examples. I've only been doing this since last Summer/Fall. Though I have worked with some good trainers I wish that I'd had (or will meet) a mentor for training.
Anyway, here's an example of what I did with my client tonight. It's one day of a two day split.
Here's what we did tonight:
warmup circuit x3:
overhead squat using dowel, halos with 8kg kb, and pump (downward dog into upward dog)
strength:
Superset (x5) body rows on trx sysem x3 and db overhead press db x5.
SLDL using db's 5x5
Circuit x4:
20 kb swings
mountain climber x20
bosu toe taps (seemingly lame exercise but worth doing)
3 min. walk on tread mill
10 mins. of stretching with band
In my personal experience I found most trainers weren't into pushing me as much as they did my hubby. Only one really treated us as equals. I guess I'm talking more about a program like the New Rules of Lifting for Woman.
The trick with women is to make sure you always stick to low weights and high reps, to tone them up. Girls that lift heavy weights get bulky and unfeminine, like those girls that use steroids.
Also you need them to do lots of cardio, to make sure they keep that muscle away and stay skinny.
This should be common knowledge.
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Originally Posted by PowerManDL
I'd have you know that women and men have DIFFERENT bodies, and women all wish to be skinny and svelte so that they may attract a mate. Therefore, they need high reps to tone up their bodies.
Matt, you're KILLING me!!
It is great that you want to learn to improve your program design for women ... but, just like men, the program design needs to match the client's goals. Valerie Walter's stuff is great for women who want the "toned model/actress" look without defined muscles. If your client wants to look like an Oxygen covermodel, then the training would be different. If she is an athlete and cares about performance, different still.
Alwyn Cosgrove has a Program Design Bible which I think is good. If you are looking for resources. And if you want good solid info on fat loss, you can't do better than to read Leigh Peele's Fat Loss Troubleshooter.
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What do the women think? How would/do they design programs for their female clients? I always hear men tell me how to train women.
You know why? Because those women leave their female clients to come train with me.
Most of the chicks who train women focus on parlor tricks like a one legged cable row on a bosu ball, lots of lunges, light weights, and a ton of cardio. Part of this is because most trainers have no idea about imbalances and how to fix them along with mobility and stability issues. Because of that, the ROM is usually compromised and youre kinda left with the above when training someone.
Some chicks stick with it, but most burn out from the cardio or just stall.
I do movement analysis with all of my clients and address all that stuff first through the appropriate movements and then bring it all together so that they can do the basics without being compromised.
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GqArtguy, what's SM equipment?
Strongman.
__________________
"The strongest steel goes through the hottest fires."-Anonymous
"When you begin to believe nothing is heavy, all weights become light." -Rossbow
"Just remember, somewhere there is a little Chinese girl warming up with your max."-Jim Convroy
"It's a round hole, dammit. Everyone fits."--Anonymous Mod at Strengthmill
You know why? Because those women leave their female clients to come train with me.
Most of the chicks who train women focus on parlor tricks like a one legged cable row on a bosu ball, lots of lunges, light weights, and a ton of cardio. Part of this is because most trainers have no idea about imbalances and how to fix them along with mobility and stability issues. Because of that, the ROM is usually compromised and youre kinda left with the above when training someone.
Some chicks stick with it, but most burn out from the cardio or just stall.
I do movement analysis with all of my clients and address all that stuff first through the appropriate movements and then bring it all together so that they can do the basics without being compromised.
Strongman.
I wish you were at my gym...I'd kill to play with some SM stuff...
I believe that women are more difficult to train than men because they are far less likely to put in the effort required to get results.
I could write an essay on it.
1) Women aren't naturally as competitive as men. Thus, they are more inclined to wanting a babysitter/social partner for a trainer than someone who actually knows what he's doing and will push them to get results.
2) Women hate to "feel their muscles" because it makes them feel manly. Learning how to feel your muscles is an essential prerequisite to developing the mind-body connection. Without it, you will go absolutely nowhere.
3) Women hate the appearance of veins and pumped up muscles (especially the forearms, which are impossible not to pump up if you're holding heavy weights for any length of time). They refuse to lift truly heavy weights (5RM or lower), and they won't do legitimate bodybuilding exhaustion training, so all that leaves for them to do is to stay within the wimpy 15-20 range and it's not even a true 15-20RM because they never go all the way. They do 15-20 reps with their 30RM.
4) Women invariably fall for every new, dumb gimmick that comes to market. Bosu balls, "functional training", and all manner of such nonsense - they see it once and they're hooked. If it's fun, I honestly believe they don't care about the results. They aren't spending their own money and it's a game to them.
5) Women are far more likely than men to place a higher priority on the enjoyment of workouts (quality time) than the attainment of results.
6) I suspect the average housewife truly believes it's "impossible" to obtain the type of physique of an athlete or fitness model without using drugs or having "perfect genetics". Therefore, the concept of striving for this type of physique never even enters her mind, and she is content to set the bar incredibly low and make any gains whatsoever, no matter how minimal. Of course, this is a crying shame due to the fact that most people CAN change their physique - and not just a little bit, but drastically.
My suspicion is beared out by the fact that I see women who work with our babysitter trainer for a long time and look basically the same. Now, I'm sure they lose a bit of weight here and there, maybe drop a couple percentage points of bodyfat, but there is no overwhelming sense of transformation. Their appearance can still best be described as average (or worse). Are such results really worth $60-80/hr? Apparently, lots of women think they are.
7) Women are not raised on hard labour and as such, they have no real conception of "high intensity". Most of them are basically adverse to hard work, which is why they favor cardio over lifting. Also, they absolutely do not understand the concept of pushing themselves to exhaustion. They will almost always stop well short of failure on every set, guaranteed.
8) Their natural preference is to do tons of cardio and very little weight lifting, a regimen that would make anyone slow, weak, and skinny-fat.
9) Couple that with their tendency to eat 60-70% carbohydrates in their diet, very little protein, often no meat and zero fat, and you are dealing with a full-fledged natural disaster. If it wasn't un-PC, I would charge women double rates due to these issues.
I believe I can state definitively and objectively that women are harder to train than men and far less likely to see results. I don't think it's my opinion, I think it's a fact. I'd love to see a convincing case to the contrary.
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Most of the chicks who train women focus on parlor tricks like a one legged cable row on a bosu ball, lots of lunges, light weights, and a ton of cardio. Part of this is because most trainers have no idea about imbalances and how to fix them along with mobility and stability issues. Because of that, the ROM is usually compromised and youre kinda left with the above when training someone.
This is true. However, these "parlor tricks" are a smash with the 30-something, stay-at-home-mom crowd. At my gym, we have a couple trainers making an absolute killing doing this type of training with their predominantly female clientele. One of the trainers is a male, the other a female.
Quote:
Some chicks stick with it, but most burn out from the cardio or just stall.
Or, they simply continue buying 10-packs for $650, forking over their husband's money and getting all of their friends to do the same. That is the exact situation at my gym with one of the female trainers. What a business she has going for herself. I literally stand in awe.
The conclusion that I've reached is that if you want to train women and be successful, you HAVE to be a babysitter. The vast majority of females simply do not have what it takes to train seriously.
You can either make money by being a babysitter, or you can make money by getting people results. The second method is far more difficult. Unfortunately, it's the only one I know. I'm not a very friendly, outgoing person and I lack the ability to BS about random nonsense. All I can offer is mountains of knowledge and the ability to put it to use. At the moment, those talents aren't making me much. But I'm working on it.
Honestly, there are so many difficulties associated with training women that it wouldn't be far off the mark to state that women shouldn't train at all.
Last edited by Allerious : 06-20-2008 at 08:37 PM.
I'm not a very friendly, outgoing person and I lack the ability to BS about random nonsense. All I can offer is mountains of knowledge and the ability to put it to use. At the moment, those talents aren't making me much. But I'm working on it.
I apologize in advance for the long post...but I simply couldn't help myself...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Allerious
I believe that women are more difficult to train than men because they are far less likely to put in the effort required to get results.
I disagree with this on so many levels it’s not even funny…so…eh hem…let me begin…*cracks knuckles* I will use myself as the example to prove you wrong.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Allerious
1) Women aren't naturally as competitive as men. Thus, they are more inclined to wanting a babysitter/social partner for a trainer than someone who actually knows what he's doing and will push them to get results.
Anyone who knows me personally would say I am a VERY competitive person. With others and especially with myself! It doesn’t matter what it is…I like to do well…exceed other and win. I am also the type of woman who would LIKE to go up against a MAN in competition just to prove a point. And I have, and I have won. My sport was volleyball, and I pretty much out-served MANY a man who tried me. I will push myself to al kinds of limits…I’ve come close to throwing up whilst training before and kept going. I sweat, I curse, I hate it and love it at the same time but dammit I will complete what I set out to do. If it kills me. I do not like to fail…so I try not to.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Allerious
2) Women hate to "feel their muscles" because it makes them feel manly. Learning how to feel your muscles is an essential prerequisite to developing the mind-body connection. Without it, you will go absolutely nowhere.
I LOVED feeling muscles for the first time in a long time. I was excited at the prospect. Seeing them, feeling them…knowing they are there…makes me happy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Allerious
3) Women hate the appearance of veins and pumped up muscles (especially the forearms, which are impossible not to pump up if you're holding heavy weights for any length of time). They refuse to lift truly heavy weights (5RM or lower), and they won't do legitimate bodybuilding exhaustion training, so all that leaves for them to do is to stay within the wimpy 15-20 range and it's not even a true 15-20RM because they never go all the way. They do 15-20 reps with their 30RM.
I refuse to use light weights…I get a rush from lifting heavy…I love comparing my lifting to men around me in the gym…it’s a favorite pastime of mine. I am happy I can do 410 lb leg presses, 160 lb seated rows, 155 lb deadlifts…and I am just getting started in my process to building more muscle. The more weight I can lift the happier I am …it’s good for my brain…and my competitive spirit. The fact that most trainers resort to ridiculous reps with lower weights baffles me…and pisses me off. I have changed trainers in the past because of this very issue…and recently had a talk with my current guy…so he could understand where I was coming from. Personally I think he may have been a bit intimidated at the weight I could and wanted to lift and that was part of his problem. But then…you know men and their egos…
Quote:
Originally Posted by Allerious
4) Women invariably fall for every new, dumb gimmick that comes to market. Bosu balls, "functional training", and all manner of such nonsense - they see it once and they're hooked. If it's fun, I honestly believe they don't care about the results. They aren't spending their own money and it's a game to them.
I can say with complete certainty that I have never purchased any of the above. That’s right none of it! We’ll get to the money part later after another heinous remark you made…
Quote:
Originally Posted by Allerious
5) Women are far more likely than men to place a higher priority on the enjoyment of workouts (quality time) than the attainment of results.
I think you need to further classify per each person what “enjoyment” is in a workout. I for instance…ENJOY a good beating. I like to work hard, be out of breath, talk little and if at all possible get my ass handed to me at the end of the workout. If I am not crying or ready to by the end…I have not “enjoyed” my workout. This will vary of course depending on the person. That is my definition of “enjoying” my workout…me…a woman BTW…in case you forgot…since this is so out of character for a woman…
Quote:
Originally Posted by Allerious
6) I suspect that the average housewife really believes that it's "impossible" to obtain the type of physique of an athlete or fitness model without using drugs or having "perfect genetics". Therefore, the concept of striving for this type of physique never even enters her mind, and she is content to set the bar incredibly low and make any gains whatsoever, no matter how minimal. Of course, this is a crying shame due to the fact that most people CAN change their physique - and not just a little bit, but drastically.
I am probably not the average housewife…and I want a specific body type and am well aware of the work and dedicated involved in looking like Beyonce…(pre too skinny tho when she still had a butt and her boobs.)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Allerious
7) Women are not raised on hard labour and as such, they have no real conception of "high intensity". Most of them are basically adverse to hard work, which is why they favor cardio over lifting. Also, they absolutely do not understand the concept of pushing themselves to exhaustion. They will almost always stop well short of failure on every set, guaranteed.
You obviously didn’t grow up in my house…or perhaps you were alive circa the 1950’s? Women know hard labor…at least this one sure does. I don’t work on a farm…tho there are many women who I am sure do…and they SURELY know what hard labor is…but in my house…I was expected to lift and tote and bail just as much as my father was. I was not ever made to feel like a weaker woman…so I never was one. This is me tho…as I stated in the first response. Since I had no brothers it was me who helped move furniture, do outdoor work…etc. I also played every sport under the sun…bball, volleyball, softball, soccer etc…and you learn intensity and what it is to work there too.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Allerious
8) Their natural preference is to do tons of cardio and very little weight lifting, a regimen that would make anyone slow, weak, and skinny-fat.
This is because till the past quarter century this is what was crammed down our throats, touted by most exercise gurus, and it’s stuck in some women’s heads. It’s unfortunate…but luckily some of us women do know how to read…(since that doesn’t take much intensity or sweat goodness me)…and we have since corrected the misguided informational onslaught in time to workout the right way.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Allerious
9) Couple that with their tendency to eat 60-70% carbohydrates in their diet, very little protein, often no meat and zero fat, and you are dealing with a full-fledged natural disaster. If it wasn't un-PC, I would charge women double rates due to these issues.
This comes down to education…and there are men guilty as hell of this one too…don’t even get me started.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Allerious
I believe I can state definitively and objectively that women are harder to train than men and far less likely to see results. I don't think it's my opinion, I think it's a fact. I'd love to see a convincing case to the contrary.
I hope you’ve been reading.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Allerious
Or, they simply continue buying 10-packs for $650, forking over their husband's money and getting all of their friends to do the same. That is the exact situation at my gym with one of the female trainers. What a business she has going for herself. I literally stand in awe.
First of all, I have a job…(yes we have those now) and I pay for all of my sessions myself. My husband also trains now…and he pays for his. This being said…our money is shared…but I usually pay my session from my cking account and he from his. And since I make a pretty damn good salary it’s never been an issue. And I usually buy the 20, since you get a better deal…and they last longer….but to reiterate…my money, my job, my sessions.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Allerious
The conclusion that I've reached is that if you want to train women and be successful, you HAVE to be a babysitter. The vast majority of females simply do not have what it takes to train seriously.
I will argue that I have seen and heard trainers complaining about men who are far more lazy…who whine…and don’t know how to suck it up. This again…is from what I have seen/heard…and certainly does not apply to all men by any means…I would not ever assume such a thing. My trainer knows me so well he knows he can walk away and I will continue squatting till he gets back. This babe…needs not be sat for.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Allerious
I'm not a very friendly, outgoing person and I lack the ability to BS about random nonsense.
Honestly I too find this SO hard to believe…
Quote:
Originally Posted by Allerious
Honestly, there are so many difficulties associated with training women that it wouldn't be far off the mark to state that women shouldn't train at all.
I feel after reading your post that perhaps you don’t like women so much…
Quote:
Originally Posted by L'ilJ
Are you retarded?
Clearly he is…but I had to go at him anyway…it is after all…my nature…as a competitive, strong woman.
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