Do you approach the training of your clients with generalizations, also?
Hell yes. It's the only way to go. I don't try to reinvent the wheel on a daily basis.
I constantly employ huge generalizations such as the SAID principle, progressive overload, variability, etc...
Every conclusion obtained by a perfectly controlled research study is a generalization. Generalization is to cognition as breathing is to life.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ivey
Your post before this said that "you'll never get a bodybuilder or the skinny teen that wants to bulk up." Well..I've had the skinny teen that wanted to bulk up. I've had the bodybuilder - he actually approached me on the floor because he said he'd been watching me and liked the way I trained, and wanted me to write a program for him.
You're correct that most of the people you're going to be training are those that just want to "lose weight and tone." But through constantly pushing their education and getting results by doing smart training, you can change their focus. It's fun when you see that shift, and they start getting excited about their training.
I don't want to give false impressions to people who are looking to get into this industry. You're right that it's possible to change people's focus, but only after they've been with you for a while and have gained significant results.
Hardly anyone is interested in gaining muscle or, heaven forbid, actually bulking up.
I talk to guys ALL THE TIME about bulking up. It's common.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Allerious
In the real world, I have come to learn that no man cares about training lower body, and no woman cares about training upper body.
Replace that phrase with "in my experience". Most women are VERY concerned with upper body training. Find me a woman who wants to wear a sleeveless dress (especially a wedding dress) or a bathing suite that doesn't care what her arms look like. I can't even tell you how many times I've had women ask me how to "get rid of the flap" (flabby triceps).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Allerious
Lol, you'll never get a bodybuilder or some skinny teen who wants to bulk up. Damn shame, but that's the way it is.
True bodybuilders will be rare, sure. But skinny teens looking to bulk up is almost too common. I'm in a college town, so maybe I just have more of them... but they're not hard to find.
I really feel like you've taken your limited experience in one area of the world and projected it as blanket "reality". It's so bad I often wonder if you're just fucking with us.
Ditto that Ian. In the real world (ok, it is L.A....) one of the most oft asked question from women is indeed about arms. Posture is another biggie.
And it's rare that I talk to guys, even overweight guys, that aren't interested in ultimately gaining muscle.
__________________
Working "hard," or the perception of working hard, doesn't really mean anything. Sweating, vomiting, and breathing hard could be a good workout or a tropical disease kicking in.-Dan John
I had a 38 yr old guy at 230 and 29% bodyfat tell me the other day that he wants to get up to about 250 at 12%. I had to shoot a little dose of reality into that one. lol
How do you deal with touching issues with women? Do you ask them permission every single time when you need to? Like touching their ass to check glute activation for one.
Like touching their ass to check glute activation for one.
You're joking, right?
In case you're not, the only places I touch are the back muscles, maybe the neck. Areas they cannot touch themselves very well.
And the main reason I touch those places is so that the client can be aware of where the muscles are... and occasionally, if things don't look right (extreme forward-head posture, etc), to see if things are actually contracting.
I have had people cup their own butt, put fingers on their hip muscles and abdominals. V-med, etc. They can feel whether or not they are squeezing.
I leave the hands-on stuff primarily to the manual therapists.
When I was training regularly I was a very hands-on trainer. I learned (the hard way) that you really need to just talk to your client, and let her know what you're about to touch and why. I had a client quit in my early career, and found out later that she was telling people that I made advances on her. I think that the only thing I ever touched was her shoulders and neck.
People are finicky about their personal space. I inform people when I take them on as a client (male or female) that my job requires me to sometimes get in their personal space . Communication! Once they know that they aren't shocked when you do.
I have been training ladies for 10+ years. 95% of ladies want the same thing. Same body type. Long and lean body. Some may want a little more definition in the arms etc, but I have yet to run across a lady that wants to bulk up.
WOMEN WILL BULK UP IF YOU USE TOO MUCH WEIGHT.
I tend to use weights 5# up to 15# depending on the exercise. I use circuit formats. Usually 3 circuits with 3-7 exercises in a circuit. Circuits are repeated 2-3 times. I usually have them strength train three days per week. One day will be a little heavier and lower reps, another day will be lighter and higher reps with lots of stuff to keep the heart rate up (like reverse lunges with a kick, etc) The third day I will do lots of the "forgotten" parts in combo with a regular weight day. Just one day a little "heavy". This type of training tends to build a long, lean athletic build.
I use very little weight for the lower body exercises. I like tools such as mini bands and sliders. My absolute favorite tool for the lower body and abs is the Valslide. This little piece of equipment is awesome. I used to use the slide board for a lot of the exercises.
I have been training ladies for 10+ years. 95% of ladies want the same thing. Same body type. Long and lean body. Some may want a little more definition in the arms etc, but I have yet to run across a lady that wants to bulk up.
WOMEN WILL BULK UP IF YOU USE TOO MUCH WEIGHT
Wow. Thanks. I will be careful to never lift heavy again - I don't wanna get too big. Does this also mean I shouldn't pick up my kids or grocery bags, cuz those are pretty heavy!
I have been training ladies for 10+ years. 95% of ladies want the same thing. Same body type. Long and lean body. Some may want a little more definition in the arms etc, but I have yet to run across a lady that wants to bulk up.
WOMEN WILL BULK UP IF YOU USE TOO MUCH WEIGHT.
I tend to use weights 5# up to 15# depending on the exercise. I use circuit formats. Usually 3 circuits with 3-7 exercises in a circuit. Circuits are repeated 2-3 times. I usually have them strength train three days per week. One day will be a little heavier and lower reps, another day will be lighter and higher reps with lots of stuff to keep the heart rate up (like reverse lunges with a kick, etc) The third day I will do lots of the "forgotten" parts in combo with a regular weight day. Just one day a little "heavy". This type of training tends to build a long, lean athletic build.
I use very little weight for the lower body exercises. I like tools such as mini bands and sliders. My absolute favorite tool for the lower body and abs is the Valslide. This little piece of equipment is awesome. I used to use the slide board for a lot of the exercises.
I dig the long, lean aesthetic build, as opposed to the short, bulky and unaesthetic build that I've been working on, but hey, what do you do when you outgrow the 15 lb weights?
p.s. I cannot believe I missed days of this discussion...
Wow. Thanks. I will be careful to never lift heavy again - I don't wanna get too big. Does this also mean I shouldn't pick up my kids or grocery bags, cuz those are pretty heavy!
I've told you again and again, those don't count. only IRON weight makes you bulky. Magical properties having to do with magnetic fields and shit. You wouldn't understand, it's science (and you're a girl).
I have been training ladies for 10+ years. 95% of ladies want the same thing. Same body type. Long and lean body. Some may want a little more definition in the arms etc, but I have yet to run across a lady that wants to bulk up.
WOMEN WILL BULK UP IF YOU USE TOO MUCH WEIGHT.
I tend to use weights 5# up to 15# depending on the exercise. I use circuit formats. Usually 3 circuits with 3-7 exercises in a circuit. Circuits are repeated 2-3 times. I usually have them strength train three days per week. One day will be a little heavier and lower reps, another day will be lighter and higher reps with lots of stuff to keep the heart rate up (like reverse lunges with a kick, etc) The third day I will do lots of the "forgotten" parts in combo with a regular weight day. Just one day a little "heavy". This type of training tends to build a long, lean athletic build.
I use very little weight for the lower body exercises. I like tools such as mini bands and sliders. My absolute favorite tool for the lower body and abs is the Valslide. This little piece of equipment is awesome. I used to use the slide board for a lot of the exercises.
So the progress is 5 lbs, 10 lbs, 15 lbs? What kind of heavy is that? Long & lean? I'm guessing that's bird diet.
If you aren't enough of an influence on the women you train to get them past the 15-lb weights and circuit routines, I'd say you are either ineffective or lazy.
__________________ Just because your mother thinks you're special doesn't mean I do
I have been training ladies for 10+ years. 95% of ladies want the same thing. Same body type. Long and lean body. Some may want a little more definition in the arms etc, but I have yet to run across a lady that wants to bulk up.
WOMEN WILL BULK UP IF YOU USE TOO MUCH WEIGHT.
I tend to use weights 5# up to 15# depending on the exercise. I use circuit formats. Usually 3 circuits with 3-7 exercises in a circuit. Circuits are repeated 2-3 times. I usually have them strength train three days per week. One day will be a little heavier and lower reps, another day will be lighter and higher reps with lots of stuff to keep the heart rate up (like reverse lunges with a kick, etc) The third day I will do lots of the "forgotten" parts in combo with a regular weight day. Just one day a little "heavy". This type of training tends to build a long, lean athletic build.
I use very little weight for the lower body exercises. I like tools such as mini bands and sliders. My absolute favorite tool for the lower body and abs is the Valslide. This little piece of equipment is awesome. I used to use the slide board for a lot of the exercises.
What's sad is to think of how many women's thinking you've screwed up with this crap over the last 10 years.
I have been training ladies for 10+ years. 95% of ladies want the same thing. Same body type. Long and lean body. Some may want a little more definition in the arms etc, but I have yet to run across a lady that wants to bulk up.
That was nice welcome everyone. You'd think she said she ate babies. Is there a manifesto people should read so that they know what training philosophies are acceptable and which ones will get people to jump down your throat?
People train for a variety of reasons. Arguably some are better than others. And our culture's emphasis on appearance and the messages that women receive from a very young age cause a real harm. I also think that disrespecting peoples views rather than engaging them in conversation is harmful. You might have missed an opportunity to educate someone or maybe even learn something.
That was nice welcome everyone. You'd think she said she ate babies. Is there a manifesto people should read so that they know what training philosophies are acceptable and which ones will get people to jump down your throat?
People train for a variety of reasons. Arguably some are better than others. And our culture's emphasis on appearance and the messages that women receive from a very young age cause a real harm. I also think that disrespecting peoples views rather than engaging them in conversation is harmful. You might have missed an opportunity to educate someone or maybe even learn something.
This forum usually rises a bit higher than that.
Most new members here read a bit first, get to know the forum, introduce themselves... maybe even state their creds (or lack thereof). If they come in and make (ridiculous, unscientific) blanket statements (in all caps, even), they will get a response at an equal level. It's that simple.
If the poster in question had even read the rest of this thread (which got pretty vicious, if I recall - it's been a while), they might have thought twice before declaring that women should never lift more than 15#. It's that simple.
That was nice welcome everyone. You'd think she said she ate babies. Is there a manifesto people should read so that they know what training philosophies are acceptable and which ones will get people to jump down your throat?
People train for a variety of reasons. Arguably some are better than others. And our culture's emphasis on appearance and the messages that women receive from a very young age cause a real harm. I also think that disrespecting peoples views rather than engaging them in conversation is harmful. You might have missed an opportunity to educate someone or maybe even learn something.
This forum usually rises a bit higher than that.
Then instead of offering a lecture, maybe you should have taken the opportunity to "educate" a 10+ year trainer.
Get a grip. I have a different view and stated it.
__________________ Just because your mother thinks you're special doesn't mean I do
Pretty well. Women make up most of my client base. It's great watching someone develop strength and improve their movement quality. A lot of them are used to light weights and little discs that slide on the ground.
One of my clients came to me thin but very soft. She got a massage from her sister who told her that the quality of her muscle tissue had improved immensely. Apparently they had felt stringy and now felt like real muscles.
Weird, I wrote a response to this a few hours ago. It was kind of long. Maybe it's the universe tapping me on the shoulder telling me not to be so verbose or wordy or redundant...
Anyway, she's really happy with the results. My biggest success with her has been getting her to measure her progress based on performance rather than the scale. It seems that form usually follows function, i.e., your performing better, you probably look better, and more often than not you feel better.
Is the PO still around? Can't believe I missed the beginning of this...Anywho, the thread is old, but I just gotta.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Allerious
Women are basically untrainable.
...just gotta chuckle here...
Quote:
Originally Posted by UConnJulie
Allerious, I'll give you a bit of advice since you are new here ... the women you will find here are not your typical cardio bunny soccer moms. Yes many of us are moms, but we all love to lift heavy shit. Many of us are really into PL or OL ... deads and squats are a regular part of our routines.
Before you break out the generalizations, keep in mind where you are ... this is not Women's Health or Oxygen ... this is JPs and the women here are different. So keep your misogynistic generalizations to yourself.
...u said it, sista!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Allerious
A million little things can offend. You're only offended because you choose to be. You have the power to accept or reject other people's views (which will always differ from your own) without becoming offended in the process.
...sh-sh-sh-sh.......lemme take it all in.......s-l-o-w-l-y
Quote:
but when it comes down to it, a person has to ask themselves whether they are training for results or just for fun
I asked myself and the answer was 'both'
Quote:
And yes, I found another forum to conduct my research study. I still intend to contribute to this forum on matters related to personal training. As regards the business side of training, this is the best forum I've come across.
Wow. Thanks. I will be careful to never lift heavy again - I don't wanna get too big. Does this also mean I shouldn't pick up my kids or grocery bags, cuz those are pretty heavy!
I apologize in advance for the long post...but I simply couldn't help myself...
I disagree with this on so many levels it’s not even funny…so…eh hem…let me begin…*cracks knuckles* I will use myself as the example to prove you wrong.
Anyone who knows me personally would say I am a VERY competitive person. With others and especially with myself! It doesn’t matter what it is…I like to do well…exceed other and win. I am also the type of woman who would LIKE to go up against a MAN in competition just to prove a point. And I have, and I have won. My sport was volleyball, and I pretty much out-served MANY a man who tried me. I will push myself to al kinds of limits…I’ve come close to throwing up whilst training before and kept going. I sweat, I curse, I hate it and love it at the same time but dammit I will complete what I set out to do. If it kills me. I do not like to fail…so I try not to.
I LOVED feeling muscles for the first time in a long time. I was excited at the prospect. Seeing them, feeling them…knowing they are there…makes me happy.
I refuse to use light weights…I get a rush from lifting heavy…I love comparing my lifting to men around me in the gym…it’s a favorite pastime of mine. I am happy I can do 410 lb leg presses, 160 lb seated rows, 155 lb deadlifts…and I am just getting started in my process to building more muscle. The more weight I can lift the happier I am …it’s good for my brain…and my competitive spirit. The fact that most trainers resort to ridiculous reps with lower weights baffles me…and pisses me off. I have changed trainers in the past because of this very issue…and recently had a talk with my current guy…so he could understand where I was coming from. Personally I think he may have been a bit intimidated at the weight I could and wanted to lift and that was part of his problem. But then…you know men and their egos…
I can say with complete certainty that I have never purchased any of the above. That’s right none of it! We’ll get to the money part later after another heinous remark you made…
I think you need to further classify per each person what “enjoyment” is in a workout. I for instance…ENJOY a good beating. I like to work hard, be out of breath, talk little and if at all possible get my ass handed to me at the end of the workout. If I am not crying or ready to by the end…I have not “enjoyed” my workout. This will vary of course depending on the person. That is my definition of “enjoying” my workout…me…a woman BTW…in case you forgot…since this is so out of character for a woman…
I am probably not the average housewife…and I want a specific body type and am well aware of the work and dedicated involved in looking like Beyonce…(pre too skinny tho when she still had a butt and her boobs.)
You obviously didn’t grow up in my house…or perhaps you were alive circa the 1950’s? Women know hard labor…at least this one sure does. I don’t work on a farm…tho there are many women who I am sure do…and they SURELY know what hard labor is…but in my house…I was expected to lift and tote and bail just as much as my father was. I was not ever made to feel like a weaker woman…so I never was one. This is me tho…as I stated in the first response. Since I had no brothers it was me who helped move furniture, do outdoor work…etc. I also played every sport under the sun…bball, volleyball, softball, soccer etc…and you learn intensity and what it is to work there too.
This is because till the past quarter century this is what was crammed down our throats, touted by most exercise gurus, and it’s stuck in some women’s heads. It’s unfortunate…but luckily some of us women do know how to read…(since that doesn’t take much intensity or sweat goodness me)…and we have since corrected the misguided informational onslaught in time to workout the right way.
This comes down to education…and there are men guilty as hell of this one too…don’t even get me started.
I hope you’ve been reading.
First of all, I have a job…(yes we have those now) and I pay for all of my sessions myself. My husband also trains now…and he pays for his. This being said…our money is shared…but I usually pay my session from my cking account and he from his. And since I make a pretty damn good salary it’s never been an issue. And I usually buy the 20, since you get a better deal…and they last longer….but to reiterate…my money, my job, my sessions.
I will argue that I have seen and heard trainers complaining about men who are far more lazy…who whine…and don’t know how to suck it up. This again…is from what I have seen/heard…and certainly does not apply to all men by any means…I would not ever assume such a thing. My trainer knows me so well he knows he can walk away and I will continue squatting till he gets back. This babe…needs not be sat for.
Honestly I too find this SO hard to believe…
I feel after reading your post that perhaps you don’t like women so much…
Clearly he is…but I had to go at him anyway…it is after all…my nature…as a competitive, strong woman.
This may be the greatest thread in the history of this forum...... A lot of myths, humor, anger, clouded narrow-minded judgments and the quoted duo posting like they're the only 2 people on face of the Earth.
What I will say, what I believe many male trainers will agree with, is:
Training Women: 75% Phychological / 25% Physical
Training Men: 25% Phychological / 75% Physical
I would agree 100% with Allerious with this statement, "1) Women aren't naturally as competitive as men."
Does this mean 100% of women? no but definitely the vast majority.
A great example from my experience which showed this was when I was an intern @ the OSU strength & conditioning department.
Spotting the football/baseball/basketball players on the bench press I noticed that when they approached failure they grunted, growled, got mad... gave everything they could to squeeze out the rep.
On the other hand, the female volleyball/basketball/softball players would give up, often laughing when reaching failure in about 75% of the time.
Again 160 Female and Male NCAA DIV I athletes, as a study group is not 100% of people, but if the data I collected was a study, I would conclude what Allerious said "1) Women aren't naturally as competitive as men."
And part of the problem is word choice, connotation, and denotative meaning.
For instance: you use the word 'naturally' in your statement "Women aren't naturally as competitive as men."
And a big problem with that is, what is meant by "naturally?" Culturally, over generations upon generations, social norms have maintained that "women are cooperative" and "men are competitive." And you will find plenty to rile against in that general thought pattern, especially if you think that is "natural" or people perceive you think that is "natural." The social roles we have and our ideas of gender have persisted for a very long time, some of which may be deemed "good" or "bad" or "true" or "detrimental to women" depending on your view point.
And so naturally, you, as a man, in a very real way, will never understand that level of high contention many women have with that line of thinking. The same way any white person, no matter how not "the man" they are, can't internally 'know' all the bs the black person has had and still has to deal with… all that that means… and what that's like.
So, in many people being perceived as perpetuating the stigma and ideas when it comes to women and working out… yeah, the rest of us who know better and want change are gonna be a little pissy about it, and are kinda gonna blame… in at least a small way… the people who just keep on saying it and doing it, whether it's "true" or not, whether you're speaking from experience or talking out your ass.
I would agree 100% with Allerious with this statement, "1) Women aren't naturally as competitive as men."
Does this mean 100% of women? no but definitely the vast majority.
A great example from my experience which showed this was when I was an intern @ the OSU strength & conditioning department.
Spotting the football/baseball/basketball players on the bench press I noticed that when they approached failure they grunted, growled, got mad... gave everything they could to squeeze out the rep.
On the other hand, the female volleyball/basketball/softball players would give up, often laughing when reaching failure in about 75% of the time.
Again 160 Female and Male NCAA DIV I athletes, as a study group is not 100% of people, but if the data I collected was a study, I would conclude what Allerious said "1) Women aren't naturally as competitive as men."
The problem with this example is that you assume you know what is going on in both the women's and the men's heads. I have certainly laughed when I hit failure. At other times I have pushed for another rep and made it. I'm not sure either outward reaction tells you anything about how competitive I am or am not.
What was going on on the inside the last time I laughed when I hit failure was that I was damn embarrassed at a fairly colossal fail in front of somebody who's opinion I valued and so I made a joke of it to deal with fact that I was pissed at myself and embarrassed. It didn't mean "oh gee I don't care and I'm not trying."
In my case what shows that I am competitive is that it makes me smile when I increase a weight or do one more rep than last time.
__________________
"Time and patience are the 2 elements that most people don't include in their plans."
-Alan Aragon
"The scale simply tells you how much the earth loves you on a particular day."
-Ogedei (Keith)
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