How much unstable surface training are you implementing into your client's routines, if any at all? Let's assume we're dealing with your average, out of shape client simply looking for improved health, a little weight loss, and increased strength.
The catalyst to this question was the routines I see the trainers in my gym running their clients through. They're 100% done on unstable surfaces with very little emphasis on progression and I'm wondering if this is a commonality among today's trainers working in gyms.
I've been independent almost entirely up until now.
Doing 100% of stuff on BOSU balls is popular, to say the least, but that does not mean its useful. I think it's retarded to do squats on an upside down BOSU, for example. It just is starting to get really silly.
It has its place, but unstable training shouldn't be the sole focus of a routine in my opinion unless you're a log roller or a trapeze artist.
I just started training for this very nice facility but I'm appalled by some of the shit I see these trainers doing with their clients. And they look at me like I have 3 arms and 2 heads.
You'd think all the clients were training to walk the tight-rope... and from the looks of them, that's about as far from reality as you can get.
I actually anxiously awaited that and read it as soon as it was released.
What's your take on unstable surface training for the normal trainee most trainers see in gyms today though? Ya know, the deconditioned lady looking to lose 20 lbs.
I don't care what your fancy study says, all the hot MILFs like to do blue balls
Stoutman - it is no coincidence that most trainers I see doing this crap don't write programs for their clients. They are not working with clients rehabing from anything but use it as a substitute for knowing how to program.
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Working "hard," or the perception of working hard, doesn't really mean anything. Sweating, vomiting, and breathing hard could be a good workout or a tropical disease kicking in.-Dan John
I love how people call it functional training. Sure, functional if you are training for the circus.
The best thing I have EVER seen was this:
overweight man on stability cushion, placed on top of BOSU ball, doing tricep kickbacks with 3-lb dumbbells, under the watchful eye of the trainer. Aside from looking totally retarded, the poor client was grunting away ... I'm sure it was hard to balance but not really worth the effort.
another good one: pushups on an upside-down BOSU placed on top of flat-side down BOSU.
That's the shit I see just about on a daily basis. It's comical, yet sad. And it's a problem that perpetuates itself. Others see the 'professionals' solely using it and they think they should be doing it too. Never-minding the fact that everyone *not* using a trainer look better than all the silly people doing circus acts, lol.
Quite the conundrum.
I'd still like to hear Eric's thoughts on when/if/how he'd apply it to your average Tom, Dick, or Harry.
Other than some stability ball bench presses, push-up walkouts/planks, and wall squats I only use the ball to sit on while my clients are on the floor (I need my core work, too! ).
I'm contemplating instructing my clients to start slapping people off of the BOSUs in their spare time, actually.
One of my clients, a woman, just deadlifted 195x3 at 68 years old. THAT'S functional.
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Isaac Wilkins, M.Ed, CSCS, NSCA-CPT, and who cares what other letters?
I actually anxiously awaited that and read it as soon as it was released.
What's your take on unstable surface training for the normal trainee most trainers see in gyms today though? Ya know, the deconditioned lady looking to lose 20 lbs.
Specific to the lower extremity, it's not only useless; it's also counterproductive and potentially harmful.
Even if someone claims to need improved balance, unstable doesn't train them to be balanced on a stable surface (the ground).
Three things contribute to your balance: Proprioception, inner ear (semicircular canals) and vision. Our bodies more or less "triangulate" from those. Want to improve balance? Make your client do something unilaterally, or do a balance drill ON THE FLOOR and close your eyes. (If this was covered in Eric's linked article I apologize for the redundancy).
My first forray into functional training involved lots of stability ball training... As Bill Hartman put it, "don't beat yourself up... we all go through a Paul Chek phase."
Unlurking here to offer a different perspective on unstable surface training... I actually am in circus school and do a lot of unstable surface training with a PT (and I do get a lot of curious stares while doing it) along with a lot of traditional strength training. Some of it transfers to circus skills, a lot of it does not, and some of it is counterproductive to what I do in circus.
Free weight training, using unstable objects like sandbags for lifting, and doing suspension work are very helpful in what I do for partner hand balancing, tumbling and aerial apparatus work. Standing on stability balls or one-legged balancing on the Bosu don't do squat to help me with standing or walking on the globes or walking the wire - they actually hinder me and interfere with my technique. Doing some Bosu training (agility drills) does help with ankle stability for trampoline work and some weighted work on the Bosu does help to teach me to keep my body tight and engaged as I'm working other muscles and teaches my brain where I am in space and how to keep multiple things going on at the same time. The best training for circus skills is.... actually doing circus, but in the absence of class time/availability of specialized equipment, some of the unstable surface training has been very useful for me.
I need to offer my experience RE this topic as well. When I showed up at in PT with a torn hamstring one of the issues the PT noticed was a total lack of balance muscles support in my leg. As a runner, I had strong running muscles but not the ones I needed to do things like stand on one leg and balance. We did a combination of things to strengthen these muscles for me. One of the things they did that I found to be incredible was they used a rope bridge that swayed back and forth and side to side when you stood on it. It was wicked unstable. I remember the burn I first felt when I stood still on that bridge. By the end of 5 months I could jump up onto it 1 legged and ride out the sway while throwing a ball at a trapoline and catching the ball on the return. (Talk about circus act) When the PT first told me that we were going to work towards that stunt I thought he was kidding. It became a goal and a game for me.
I cannot believe that this sort of thing is harmful and my experience says that it was indeed very helpful.
This thread reminds me of something I saw at my gym and then something a friend has gone through at his physiotherapy.
The other day at my gym a young guy came in to be trained and the first thing the trainer had him do were bent-over-rows on an upside down BOSU ball (standing on the flat side). This poor guy had never done a Row before and now not only does he have to learn the form but he has to keep from falling off the ball as well.
The second thing isn't quite training on an unstable surface but it is similar. A friend of mine recently had a cast removed after breaking his leg. For his physio they are having him stand on the bad leg, on a trampoline (hopping lightly), while they toss a ball at him which he is to catch and throw back. I can't remember if it is a medicine ball or something lighter. I just can't see this being a legitimate recovery technique, it seems like they are just screwing with him.
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I don't get why you don't see that as a legitimate recovery technique. I stood on the rope bridge and played catch with my therapist for weeks. I could feel the burn in all the little mucsles in my legs in very short order doing that. These were muscles I did not even realize I had (all alongside my shin bone and around my ankles). This sort of work allowed me to get strength in my legs that I did not have before. Now I have this amazing balance. I can stand on one leg with my eyes closed no problems for a minute or longer. This wasn't possible before I did this sort of work.
I am not saying that the bosu training this is a good idea for all people when they start out with a trainer and I agree that many clueless trainers just use it without understanding what they are doing. That said, I fail to see that training on an unstable surface is a bad thing in other applications or that it is harmful.
I don't get why you don't see that as a legitimate recovery technique.
I think there should be a very distinct division made here: Those who are talking about PT "rehab and recovery" work, and those talking about the use of unstable surface for a healthy individual for the purposes of increasing strength and/or athletic performance.
Notice the first section of Eric's link:
"Initially reserved for rehabilitation programs, unstable surface training (UST) has recently grown in popularityin strength and conditioning and general exercise scenarios. Nonetheless, no studies to date have examined the effects of UST on performance in healthy, trained individuals. The purpose of this study was to determine the effects of 10 weeks of lower-body UST on performance in elite athletes."
So Eric's study wasn't calling out PT's and their methods for treating injured patients.
Retraining a badly injured ankle on a BOSU is different than training curls while standing on a BOSU... when the intent isn't ankle rehab, but ankle and generic "core" strengthening.
Think of it this way: the BOSU (or similiar methods) are used by PT's to bring your injured parts back to normal (you can walk and stand properly). The argument changes when you then claim that these same unstable methods should be used to enhance strength beyond the norm (you can run and jump and swivel more effectively than you could before).
I think there should be a very distinct division made here: Those who are talking about PT "rehab and recovery" work, and those talking about the use of unstable surface for a healthy individual for the purposes of increasing strength and/or athletic performance.
Notice the first section of Eric's link:
"Initially reserved for rehabilitation programs, unstable surface training (UST) has recently grown in popularityin strength and conditioning and general exercise scenarios. Nonetheless, no studies to date have examined the effects of UST on performance in healthy, trained individuals. The purpose of this study was to determine the effects of 10 weeks of lower-body UST on performance in elite athletes."
So Eric's study wasn't calling out PT's and their methods for treating injured patients.
Retraining a badly injured ankle on a BOSU is different than training curls while standing on a BOSU... when the intent isn't ankle rehab, but ankle and generic "core" strengthening.
Think of it this way: the BOSU (or similiar methods) are used by PT's to bring your injured parts back to normal (you can walk and stand properly). The argument changes when you then claim that these same unstable methods should be used to enhance strength beyond the norm (you can run and jump and swivel more effectively than you could before).
THANK YOU Ian! That distinction definitely needs to be made. There is "some" efficacy for UST in rehab settings, albeit in a very limited fashion (ie: ankle proprioception), but for healthy individuals.......eh. It causes more harm than good.
Well I beleive stability training has its place, mainly in a recovery phase. However most of these stability injuries come from not doing unilateral or some other type of work. Most people go to the gym and do squats , leg press, etc. I believe something as simple as incorporating various lunge type work would prevent alot of the instability injuries from happening. Even the occasional workout done on bosu's arent bad but shouldnt be the main stay of a workout. Training is about being diverse and flexible. Stability exercises are fine for rounding out a training program and I beleive they have a place but not as a main stay workout. I go to a local gym and am completely shocked by some of the things i see the trainers doing. I've watched them in detail run clients through programs that to me make no sense or logic whatsoever including unnecessary amounts of stability work. I watched one trainer walk take a woman to a lat pulldown then to a tricep extension then told her some squats and she was done. I am not sure if this lady was loooking to hit some type of specific problem but if that was the workout it was crap. Also I help more people at that gym for free than the trainers on the floor do. They sit there day in and out and watch people perform exercises so incorrectly that they are down right dangerous to others around them. Everything to slinging up weights in lateral raises to bouncing weight off of their chests or majorly rounding their backs in bent over rows. The main thing is to train your clients in what you know to be right and let the others notice how much better your clients are compared to them.
I've never had any of my clients do unstable surface training. I find that unilateral work does the job just fine. It trains proprioception, improves mobility, and builds strength. If I do want some unstable surface training... I take them outside and make them work in the grass.
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Interesting. Thanks for this topic discussion folks. I learned a lot. I realized when I went in for PT that just running forward does not a complete athlete make. I figured that the stuff I did for rehab would be good for everyone who is aging and loosing balance muscles so never really questioned this when I saw it in the gyms.
How much unstable surface training are you implementing into your client's routines, if any at all?
The only client I've ever had stand on a Bosu ball had broken her ankle. When she was able to come back to the gym, we continued with rehab for her ankle by using the Bosu as part of her proprioception work.
Like the other trainers have already said, a stability ball has some uses: jackknife, pikes, plank variations, ball crunch, and especially as a place for me to occasionally sit! Single-leg work is an essential part of how I train, and those movements teach balance and coordination for a general fitness population.
If you couldn't tell, I share most of the views you see here. So where does this push to do everything on the bosu ball and/or stability ball come from? I guess just like anything else, trends come and go. It's just frustrating how 'damaging' it is. I mean aside from the fact that half the things I see these trainers having their clients do on bosu balls are biomechanically incorrect... it's also setting a real bad example for the not-so-informed gym patrons who learn by watching the 'professionals' train their clients.
I guess trends come and go...maybe BOSU had a big contract where it was able to get into training seminars/conferences for instructors and get people in on the gung-ho-ness?
I am firm believe that unstable work has no real training effect on strength. However, I do use the Bosu and other stability equipment in my client and group workouts. It makes things fun, it's challenging and it adds variety.
This thread is a few months old, but I had made a mental note to myself to bump it up when I FINALLY got around to publishing my latest e-book. Have a look:
Interesting thread - I'm not a trainer by any means, just a client with balance issues. When I started (and had significantly more bodyweight than I do now), the trainers I had at the time had me on stability balls, bosu balls and machines - standing on one leg was also popular too. I did as directed, and while balanced showed some improvement, it was still a long, long way from becoming significant/useful. As I learned about training, I gradually moved to free weights, and eventually squats, deadlifts and other compound movements with nary a stability or bosu ball in sight. I took off weight and got stronger, to the point where I can do bulgarian split squats without toppling over - which to me represents a MAJOR improvement. The first time I did the BSS was about a year and a half ago and had to hold on to something because I couldn't balance well enough to get through a set on my own. So it has taken a while, but it's finally here.
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Tom
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For 99% of the people training in a commercial gym it's just retarded to use a Bosu Ball to do anything. Most people in a commercial gym just want to look better "nekkid" (hey, I'm Texan). People who want to look better nekkid are better off using nekkid exercises like full ROM compound exercises mixed with a small amount of isolation exercises.
If you are doing rehab work you can make a case for unstable training. For lagging muscles and correcting imbalances, sure. Even chain suspended pushups have their place for nekkid exercise. But for most of the unstable lifting that I see in the gym these days it's a poor trade off between risk and benefit.
I see some trainers doing EVERYTHING with med balls, physioballs, Boso balls, balls galore. You know what people DON'T do these days? Squat full range, deadlift, pullup and chinup full range. And people aren't strong anymore. I lifted with some buddies of mine who I make fun of continuously for performing lifts such as the 3 man deadlift. I made them squat full ROM and they were amazed. 26 years old and they can't squat all of the way down, even w/o weight. They have spent too much time doing half squats (which BTW have their place too in conjunction with full ROM, but not ALL OF THE TIME).
I was pulling the other day (deadlift for you non-PLers) and I poop you not, a guy walked up to me and asked me what exercise I was doing.
Seriously ruined my workout
Anyways, enough with my rant I'm getting too worked up.
Unstable Surface Training
Linear Mode
