Unstable Surface Training - JP Fitness Forums

stroutman81 · 04-25-2008, 10:42 AM

Question for the trainers here....

How much unstable surface training are you implementing into your client's routines, if any at all? Let's assume we're dealing with your average, out of shape client simply looking for improved health, a little weight loss, and increased strength.

The catalyst to this question was the routines I see the trainers in my gym running their clients through. They're 100% done on unstable surfaces with very little emphasis on progression and I'm wondering if this is a commonality among today's trainers working in gyms.

I've been independent almost entirely up until now.

ljk · 04-25-2008, 11:38 AM

Doing 100% of stuff on BOSU balls is popular, to say the least, but that does not mean its useful. I think it's retarded to do squats on an upside down BOSU, for example. It just is starting to get really silly.

It has its place, but unstable training shouldn't be the sole focus of a routine in my opinion unless you're a log roller or a trapeze artist.

stroutman81 · 04-25-2008, 11:43 AM

My point exactly....

I just started training for this very nice facility but I'm appalled by some of the shit I see these trainers doing with their clients. And they look at me like I have 3 arms and 2 heads.

You'd think all the clients were training to walk the tight-rope... and from the looks of them, that's about as far from reality as you can get.

Eric Cressey · 04-25-2008, 01:13 PM

I might know something about this.

The effects of ten weeks of lower-body unstable su...[J Strength Cond Res. 2007] - PubMed Result

stroutman81 · 04-25-2008, 01:18 PM

Hey Eric, nice to hear from you!

I actually anxiously awaited that and read it as soon as it was released.

What's your take on unstable surface training for the normal trainee most trainers see in gyms today though? Ya know, the deconditioned lady looking to lose 20 lbs.

kuri · 04-25-2008, 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eric Cressey

I might know something about this.

The effects of ten weeks of lower-body unstable su...[J Strength Cond Res. 2007] - PubMed Result

I don't care what your fancy study says, all the hot MILFs like to do blue balls

Stoutman - it is no coincidence that most trainers I see doing this crap don't write programs for their clients. They are not working with clients rehabing from anything but use it as a substitute for knowing how to program.

ljk · 04-25-2008, 01:32 PM

I love how people call it functional training. Sure, functional if you are training for the circus.

The best thing I have EVER seen was this:

overweight man on stability cushion, placed on top of BOSU ball, doing tricep kickbacks with 3-lb dumbbells, under the watchful eye of the trainer. Aside from looking totally retarded, the poor client was grunting away ... I'm sure it was hard to balance but not really worth the effort.

another good one: pushups on an upside-down BOSU placed on top of flat-side down BOSU.

stroutman81 · 04-25-2008, 01:37 PM

That's the shit I see just about on a daily basis. It's comical, yet sad. And it's a problem that perpetuates itself. Others see the 'professionals' solely using it and they think they should be doing it too. Never-minding the fact that everyone *not* using a trainer look better than all the silly people doing circus acts, lol.

Quite the conundrum.

I'd still like to hear Eric's thoughts on when/if/how he'd apply it to your average Tom, Dick, or Harry.

Isaac Wilkins · 04-25-2008, 02:45 PM

Other than some stability ball bench presses, push-up walkouts/planks, and wall squats I only use the ball to sit on while my clients are on the floor (I need my core work, too!

).

I'm contemplating instructing my clients to start slapping people off of the BOSUs in their spare time, actually.

One of my clients, a woman, just deadlifted 195x3 at 68 years old. THAT'S functional.

Eric Cressey · 04-25-2008, 03:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stroutman81

Hey Eric, nice to hear from you!

I actually anxiously awaited that and read it as soon as it was released.

What's your take on unstable surface training for the normal trainee most trainers see in gyms today though? Ya know, the deconditioned lady looking to lose 20 lbs.

Specific to the lower extremity, it's not only useless; it's also counterproductive and potentially harmful.

Jean-Paul · 04-25-2008, 04:17 PM

What they said!

Even if someone claims to need improved balance, unstable doesn't train them to be balanced on a stable surface (the ground).

Three things contribute to your balance: Proprioception, inner ear (semicircular canals) and vision. Our bodies more or less "triangulate" from those. Want to improve balance? Make your client do something unilaterally, or do a balance drill ON THE FLOOR and close your eyes. (If this was covered in Eric's linked article I apologize for the redundancy).

My first forray into functional training involved lots of stability ball training... As Bill Hartman put it, "don't beat yourself up... we all go through a Paul Chek phase."

Phaedrus49er · 04-25-2008, 04:36 PM

Oh c'mon, JP, you mean all those squats and hops and who knows what else you did on a stability ball wasn't functional?

Jean-Paul · 04-25-2008, 05:38 PM

Well, considering I once almost joined a circus group of daredevils in my early 20's (true story) I suppose it could have had some transfer.

sciencelady · 04-26-2008, 01:43 PM

Unlurking here to offer a different perspective on unstable surface training... I actually am in circus school and do a lot of unstable surface training with a PT (and I do get a lot of curious stares while doing it) along with a lot of traditional strength training. Some of it transfers to circus skills, a lot of it does not, and some of it is counterproductive to what I do in circus.

Free weight training, using unstable objects like sandbags for lifting, and doing suspension work are very helpful in what I do for partner hand balancing, tumbling and aerial apparatus work. Standing on stability balls or one-legged balancing on the Bosu don't do squat to help me with standing or walking on the globes or walking the wire - they actually hinder me and interfere with my technique. Doing some Bosu training (agility drills) does help with ankle stability for trampoline work and some weighted work on the Bosu does help to teach me to keep my body tight and engaged as I'm working other muscles and teaches my brain where I am in space and how to keep multiple things going on at the same time. The best training for circus skills is.... actually doing circus, but in the absence of class time/availability of specialized equipment, some of the unstable surface training has been very useful for me.

kfisherx · 04-26-2008, 08:55 PM

I need to offer my experience RE this topic as well. When I showed up at in PT with a torn hamstring one of the issues the PT noticed was a total lack of balance muscles support in my leg. As a runner, I had strong running muscles but not the ones I needed to do things like stand on one leg and balance. We did a combination of things to strengthen these muscles for me. One of the things they did that I found to be incredible was they used a rope bridge that swayed back and forth and side to side when you stood on it. It was wicked unstable. I remember the burn I first felt when I stood still on that bridge. By the end of 5 months I could jump up onto it 1 legged and ride out the sway while throwing a ball at a trapoline and catching the ball on the return. (Talk about circus act) When the PT first told me that we were going to work towards that stunt I thought he was kidding. It became a goal and a game for me.

I cannot believe that this sort of thing is harmful and my experience says that it was indeed very helpful.

Sign · 04-26-2008, 09:35 PM

This thread reminds me of something I saw at my gym and then something a friend has gone through at his physiotherapy.

The other day at my gym a young guy came in to be trained and the first thing the trainer had him do were bent-over-rows on an upside down BOSU ball (standing on the flat side). This poor guy had never done a Row before and now not only does he have to learn the form but he has to keep from falling off the ball as well.

The second thing isn't quite training on an unstable surface but it is similar. A friend of mine recently had a cast removed after breaking his leg. For his physio they are having him stand on the bad leg, on a trampoline (hopping lightly), while they toss a ball at him which he is to catch and throw back. I can't remember if it is a medicine ball or something lighter. I just can't see this being a legitimate recovery technique, it seems like they are just screwing with him.

kfisherx · 04-27-2008, 12:47 AM

I don't get why you don't see that as a legitimate recovery technique. I stood on the rope bridge and played catch with my therapist for weeks. I could feel the burn in all the little mucsles in my legs in very short order doing that. These were muscles I did not even realize I had (all alongside my shin bone and around my ankles). This sort of work allowed me to get strength in my legs that I did not have before. Now I have this amazing balance. I can stand on one leg with my eyes closed no problems for a minute or longer. This wasn't possible before I did this sort of work.

I am not saying that the bosu training this is a good idea for all people when they start out with a trainer and I agree that many clueless trainers just use it without understanding what they are doing. That said, I fail to see that training on an unstable surface is a bad thing in other applications or that it is harmful.