Guru Laziness

[Bill2380]

Good stuff, RL.

[K-Court]

Good advice, RL. Well said.

[Keith S.]

Well put RL.

While I don't have the time to post here on a regular basis due to life (work, school, etc.) I do try to post every once in a while. Does that make me a loser too?

Anyhow, Jimmy, I would like to thank you for this valuable learning experience. As someone who is working to launch a career in this industry, I have learned exactly what NOT to do with the public. I hope you can see that you have upset a great amount of people not just because of the original product, which may or may not have been you, but also because of your attitude later in the thread.

Good luck in the future Jimmy.

[Alcoholiday]

Originally Posted by Jimmy Smith

Yes because I'm not busy enough with real life, I have all this time to come on here and waste it with people who don't have the guts to go by their real names. I've only replied so far because I needed to get the truth out there. It's out there now and you see the nitpicking already about domain registration etc etc.

You want to bring me down and that's cool, I feel bad for you but there's really nothing more to say. I had full intentions of promoting the product and handed everything other to a company, they took it from there, I fired them and moved on with my life thinking the project was dead and I got scammed and just found about it now.

I didn't go ahead with the product because I didn't want to after going through a conflict with the company that wouldn't pay me anything back. I said screw it.

It happens, get over it, get a life, get outside. Stop posting on message boards.

wow, i guess we're very pathetic, posting on message boards and all. Good thing you never post on message boards or use the internet to spread your business.

Seriously, not many people in this thread were "tearing you down." People can take you on your word, but when your word is like the above posts, well.....

[tonymcclellan]

Noone else has a busy life, duh. I wonder how the T-Nation forumites will feel after they find this out...I'm not gonna tell them, because I am not a member there though.

[Alcoholiday]

Originally Posted by tonymcclellan

Noone else has a busy life, duh. I wonder how the T-Nation forumites will feel after they find this out...I'm not gonna tell them, because I am not a member there though.

the thread probably would get deleted in a second.

[cycomiko]

Rule #1 on poor sales strategies

Behave like Jimmy Smith

[Frank.S]

i think the new 'linkbacks' stuff at the bottom puts things into perspective pretty quick.
RLs reply was great.

Its ok jimmy, you where not going to make a dime off of me anyways

[Simon C]

Yeah Jimmy it's okay, I'm not mad. I didn't have much respect for you to loose anyway You've reached that baseline.

Originally Posted by Jimmy Smith

Why would I want to wreck my career and reputation in this field by copying someone else?

Well, I'm not sure you had that much to lose anyway... I think your reputation is pretty 'wrecked' now...

Either way, its time to get your act together, it's going to take a long time to recover from this.

[shark]

just noticed that me and red's are the one's looking at this right now... it's almost like we're hanging out - cool!

RL, great response!

[RedWifey]

RW waves at Chris

[Jean-Paul]

Okay guys... we get the point. We're insulted and incensed. Let's not have the same message told in 200 different variations. I'm sure Jimmy understands where you are on this. Let's try to keep this from descending into the typical name-calling. If being called pathetic forum geeks bothers you, then returning fire is just taking the bait.

Personally, I liked RedLefty's way of dealing with this.

This does open a can of worms though. First of all, never doubt the power and speed of bad news/gossip. Anyone remember the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy series? That ship that was powered by the only thing in the universe that travels faster than light?

Insulting people who are connected -- not just in here -- but to a global social network is probably not a great idea.

But I'm actually more interested in why this kind of thing starts up in the first place. Why the backlash?

I notice that pros like Alwyn, Hartman, Cressey, etc seem to be left alone, and my guess is that it's because they have earned respect from a long history of delivering world-class content.

On the other hand, there are the trainers who miss-use Ryan Lee's promotional methods with sloppy design and misguided hype, and it seems to me that perhaps the biggest problem is that they are trying to skip a crucial step of building a reputation slowly and developing credibility. It almost always backfires on them too.

This is not at all a reflection on Jimmy's training skills. I'm sure as a CSCS he's pretty knowledgeable. He struck me when I met him as a sincere guy with a lot of ambition and potential. Actually, the problem I'm speaking of is much bigger than his site. We had this discussion in here recently.

It takes time to build a solid reputation, and a little hype and some contrived testimonials just don't make up for it. Let's face it too... Not all of us are cut out to be top dogs. It is smart to know your limitations. I admire the guys who have improved my training career like Bill Hartman, Gray Cook, Stuart McGill, Mike Boyle... I will NEVER be one of those guys! I can have a great career, make plenty of money, help thousands of people, and sleep like a baby at night fully acknowledging that I am not one of those top dogs.

If I ever were, I couldn't just skip the decades of education and experience those guys have that put them in that position. I would have my work cut out for me.

[RedWifey]

What I've also felt is that it reflects poorly on the REAL experts when they boost people above their true skill set. Because they've attached their name and propped him up so high (when he/she wasn't ready) that they both fall when the little guy messes up. At least in my eyes.

[Lost Dog]

Originally Posted by Jean-Paul

But I'm actually more interested in why this kind of thing starts up in the first place. Why the backlash?

I notice that pros like Alwyn, Hartman, Cressey, etc seem to be left alone, and my guess is that it's because they have earned respect from a long history of delivering world-class content.

They are left alone for the most part. I do see some of them referred to as being part of a "circle jerk," promoting each others products. I don't really have a problem with it, their products are good and if they all believe in each other, what's the problem?

I think that the biggest problem for them, in some people's eyes, is that their names are associated to newer, younger trainers who might not be all that great in our eyes. They might be good trainers who know their shit, but who do stupid things, make poor products, and lack hubris.

On the other hand, there are the trainers who miss-use Ryan Lee's promotional methods with sloppy design and misguided hype, and it seems to me that perhaps the biggest problem is that they are trying to skip a crucial step of building a reputation slowly and developing credibility. It almost always backfires on them too.

If a new trainer can translate good training into good marketing and tap a market that others aren't, I have no problem with that. If one of the newer trainers here wrote a fat loss manual that was filled with common sense and sold it (even with that long, long, long style page), more power to him. There are tons of crappy ones out there, and I hope the new guy with a good product for the masses wins.

This is not at all a reflection on Jimmy's training skills. I'm sure as a CSCS he's pretty knowledgeable. He struck me when I met him as a sincere guy with a lot of ambition and potential. Actually, the problem I'm speaking of is much bigger than his site. We had this discussion in here recently.

It takes time to build a solid reputation, and a little hype and some contrived testimonials just don't make up for it.

He is knowledgeable. If you listen on the fitcast, he obviously knows what he's talking about, as do many of the new trainers around here.

A big issue for me is when they have a swelled head and lack of humility. An unwillingness to admit and correct a mistake (not just with this subject or with this guy, either). Instead, it's ignored and left to fester, or explained away, saying that "the forum readers are being too nitpicky" with the wording. Some of these guys write blogs and act like they've written a newspaper article that can never be corrected. Now that it's written, it has to stand. Nonsense. Go back and edit it and fix it (and make a reference to the "fix" if it's appropriate). Years from now, people will still find your mistake in google. You want that?

Also, they are often parroting what the "leaders" are saying and doing (or not doing).

Nothing against Bill Hartman or Nate Green, I've met them both, I like them, and I hope they do extremely well. But, and when AC and JP say Bill's the "smartest man in fitness" I get what they mean, but when a half dozen "new" guys start saying it, come on. How the f do they know? Come up with your own words, man. Talk about how Bill's help or concepts has allowed you to help your clients, instead.

When Alwyn says about Nate Green(paraphrasing), "Lookout for this guy. Nate is the next big thing" I put stock in it, but when you hear virtually the same words from trainers just out of or still in school, you roll your eyes. And, it does Nate a disservice, I think. Come up with your own words that are believable from your own level of reputation.

Leaving the forums, en mass. Hey, if the "leaders" want to leave, I don't have a problem. I understand why several left and I'll agree with their reasons. With some exceptions that we don't need to rehash, most left and didn't make a stink. But, their followers left a trail of complaining stink in their own wakes. The followers misquoted and misrepresented the "leaders" reasons quite a bit, too. Exaggerated them, in some cases. But, the real issue seams to be that they are followers and don't have minds of their own.

Finally (I think), not acknowledging the "masterminds." A few months back, in one week, I got about 9 emails selling me on the same product, using interviews with the same guy, etc. I asked a couple of them what was up with this; all at the same time? None would acknowledge that something was coordinated. "It's just a coincidence." Please. 9 emails with the same product (with their own affiliate links) and only slightly different wording. Pure coincidence... right. Again, no problem with the affiliating and reselling a good product (and none were pretending that it was their product, they all acknowledged reselling a good product, btw).


BTW, we've probably had these issues, in concept, since the middle ages, but there was no internet to really speed it up and bring it to the fore.

[gobbla]

Most of the bigger names have good service, good products, and don't act like fucktards when something goes wrong. For the most part they're smart enough not to make massive mistakes in the first place, let alone lie about it\deny it when they do.

Jimmy is getting the backlash mainly because no one believes him. He's sitting with a giant turd on his head and instead of acknowledging it and accepting responsibility for it, he's pointing the finger at everyone else and playing the victim. If he wasn't insulting everyone and accepted responsibility for what happened (whether it was Habib or him that placed the turd on his head) then he wouldn't be experiencing the blow back.

[PowerManDL]

It boils down to honesty, really.

If you're honest and not a bullshitter, you get left alone.

It really is that easy.

I don't mean about just this, or any specific situation. I mean in your professional life, in how you carry yourself, how you write your articles and present information....it's about honesty.

This is something that even some of the Big Dogs let go to their heads. You think Alwyn doesn't take heat for things he says? He does. Mike Boyle? Same.

How can us "little folk" criticize? Because we've got functioning brains, that's how. Three decades in S&C and a good business model doesn't make you a fucking MENSA member above reproach.

They just don't garner it for this level of epic screw-up. But even with them, it comes back down to that basic concept: Honesty.

Be honest, and you'll be OK.