In the big scheme of things it really does boil down to the thread title. Jimmy was just being lazy & careless, it's not like he kidnapped someone's pet & raped it. Maybe he just got shitfaced after a Perform Better seminar & decided to build a website & his judgement was way off. Who knows. I've actually talked briefly with him on a conference call w/Lyle, Craig B, & others. Jimmy seemed to be a pretty lucid, sensible guy. Hopefully this incident will give him a swift lesson in integrity.
PS - from an "industry guy" perspective, this whole thing is just sort of a tragic comedy. But I can understand how it would piss off the buying public who at the very least expects some honesty.
the whole thing is, that the internet is a tricky thing.
if Jimmy did in fact rip those off, it was a very stupid thing. Internet gossip spreads like wildfire throughout all strength message boards. If he did do this, it will REALLY tarnish is reputation, and i know he will lose a lot of sales on future products he puts out.
A lot of what "gurus" put out is not new. People buy it because they trust the people who put the stuff out. Eric, Alan, Mike, Lyle, Bill, etc are all examples of this. They are people who put out no BS products and people trust them because they shoot straight. because of their experience on message boards, when they put out new products, they sell a lot better than some joe blow trying to push products on someone.
All gurus have are their reputation. I have a feeling Jimmy is going to be feeling this one...
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regarding the obnoxious layout of many websites... This topic has, if I recal correctly, come up before. Allegedly, that style of marketing is actually more successful in an internet venue than the clean, non-invasive site that you and I would prefer. So, if someone is in this business to make money selling materials on the web, well... I can't blame them for going with what works!
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regarding the obnoxious layout of many websites... This topic has, if I recal correctly, come up before. Allegedly, that style of marketing is actually more successful in an internet venue than the clean, non-invasive site that you and I would prefer. So, if someone is in this business to make money selling materials on the web, well... I can't blame them for going with what works!
So then what is ultimately more important? Respect from your peers or sales? I hate that it has to come down to one or the other. In most cases I don't see that to be the case. Alwyn Cosgrove will be the first to tell you that he's not teaching anything that hasn't already been taught. Although he does bring a fresh perspective to everything
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I want to be professional so I won't mention them here but if you email me I'll be happy to tell you. I can tell you who it wasn't though so "Steve Martin" whatever your screen name is, can stop bothering the girl who did my first site. She had nothing to do with it..
You might as well close this thread JP because I'm not responding. I said my piece and I'm not coming back because I can see this getting ugly....
Jimmy, feel free to come in here and defend yourself. The mods are keeping an eye on this thread, but so far it looks like people are staying pretty civil and just asking legit (albeit tough) questions.
Stuff like this will blow over though. I remember some early articles I wrote in my twenties that I would vehemently deny any knowledge of today. This will eventually just fall off the grid as new stuff is always taking it's place.
I don't know why you would be protective or professional with those guys in any way though. They potentially damaged your career and income. I would be suing them and telling everyone in your circle and beyond what they did. I would put up a large banner on the front of my website naming them and saying what shit heels they are. It's not a matter of revenge (well, maybe partly), it's about making sure that their reputation takes a hit since it was their supposed actions hurt yours.
I would like to see an explanation of the domain name registration, if nothing else.
That's nothing. Really. I have tacdyn.com registered in my name, used to have tacticaldynamics.com in my name, let it lapse and now some fucker is squatting on it.
One registers a domain, hands control over to someone else and there is no telling what the controlling agent does with it.
That's nothing. Really. I have tacdyn.com registered in my name, used to have tacticaldynamics.com in my name, let it lapse and now some fucker is squatting on it.
One registers a domain, hands control over to someone else and there is no telling what the controlling agent does with it.
While I buy your explanation, I have a feeling that in Jimmy's case, this isn't the case. I have no reason to believe anything that has been said in defense.
Sure, I'm biased, but I haven't been convinced otherwise.
__________________
Quoth David Banner: "Like a pimp"
It's not a beer belly. It's a gas tank for a sex machine.
While I buy your explanation, I have a feeling that in Jimmy's case, this isn't the case. I have no reason to believe anything that has been said in defense.
Sure, I'm biased, but I haven't been convinced otherwise.
Listen, I don't really care what you think nor do I care what anyone else thinks. Your only purpose is to tear me down and I shouldn't even be responding to you because you get off on that. I'm happy that you want to play CSI but at this point I've told the truth and it doesn't bother me one bit what a bunch of people who live on messages boards say about me.
That's why I haven't been around here in months. It's garbage like this.
Answer me this..
Why would I want to wreck my career and reputation in this field by copying someone else? Why would I throw away years of hard work?
Oh but you guys got me on some articles that I wrote months ago. It's called promotion and if you had any clue about marketing you'd know that you promote a product BEFORE it comes out. I wrote articles about something that I thought I was going to promote. FYI, article database submission software sends the articles out when you tell it to and those articles were written way before December.
Notice it was never mentioned or linked on my site like the Muscle Bible is? Notice it was never mentioned in my blog? I'm not someone that sits behind the computer with a fake username and talks trash.
You can try to bring me down but it's not working,now I know your lives are pathetic enough that you love this and I'm sorry for that.
I don't need you guys to understand, I don't care if you do. I told the truth that I had nothing to do with it. I have no reasons to come back here and defend myself. I'm not on trial...
Would I pay the guy and join the his mastermind group if I was going to rip him off?
Precisely. You summed up the question nicely, and if you answered it then I missed it.
If you're really innocent here, then I don't see why some more explanation and self-defense is not worth your time.
Yes because I'm not busy enough with real life, I have all this time to come on here and waste it with people who don't have the guts to go by their real names. I've only replied so far because I needed to get the truth out there. It's out there now and you see the nitpicking already about domain registration etc etc.
You want to bring me down and that's cool, I feel bad for you but there's really nothing more to say. I had full intentions of promoting the product and handed everything other to a company, they took it from there, I fired them and moved on with my life thinking the project was dead and I got scammed and just found about it now.
I didn't go ahead with the product because I didn't want to after going through a conflict with the company that wouldn't pay me anything back. I said screw it.
It happens, get over it, get a life, get outside. Stop posting on message boards.
Listen, I don't really care what you think nor do I care what anyone else thinks. Your only purpose is to tear me down and I shouldn't even be responding to you because you get off on that. I'm happy that you want to play CSI but at this point I've told the truth and it doesn't bother me one bit what a bunch of people who live on messages boards say about me.
Jimmy, we're your audience. You should care. And it's obvious you do.
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That's why I haven't been around here in months. It's garbage like this.
Or is it because we don't fall for sales pitches aimed towards retarded monkeys?
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Answer me this..
Why would I want to wreck my career and reputation in this field by copying someone else? Why would I throw away years of hard work?
Oh, I don't know... $?
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Oh but you guys got me on some articles that I wrote months ago. It's called promotion and if you had any clue about marketing you'd know that you promote a product BEFORE it comes out. I wrote articles about something that I thought I was going to promote. FYI, article database submission software sends the articles out when you tell it to and those articles were written way before December.
I know I haven't taken any high priced seminars, but I do know a little something about marketing.
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Notice it was never mentioned or linked on my site like the Muscle Bible is? Notice it was never mentioned in my blog? I'm not someone that sits behind the computer with a fake username and talks trash.
I thought you just said you were bigger than that. But wait, you just started throwing stones...
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You can try to bring me down but it's not working,now I know your lives are pathetic enough that you love this and I'm sorry for that.
I can't bring you down, but you can call me names. That's a nice double standard.
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I don't need you guys to understand, I don't care if you do. I told the truth that I had nothing to do with it. I have no reasons to come back here and defend myself. I'm not on trial...
Yet, you just came back to defend yourself. What's the deal? What are you hiding?
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Would I pay the guy and join the his mastermind group if I was going to rip him off?
Are we calling this the mastermind group? Really?
__________________
Quoth David Banner: "Like a pimp"
It's not a beer belly. It's a gas tank for a sex machine.
Listen, I don't really care what you think nor do I care what anyone else thinks. Your only purpose is to tear me down and I shouldn't even be responding to you because you get off on that.
That's why I haven't been around here in months. It's garbage like this.
Why wouldn't you care what we think? We are customers in this industry. And as JP said, we're not tearing you down, we're just trying to understand where you're coming from because the timeline wasn't making sense.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimmy Smith
Oh but you guys got me on some articles that I wrote months ago. It's called promotion and if you had any clue about marketing you'd know that you promote a product BEFORE it comes out. I wrote articles about something that I thought I was going to promote. FYI, article database submission software sends the articles out when you tell it to and those articles were written way before December.
Thanks for bashing us again. Good thing you don't care what we think.
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Originally Posted by Jimmy Smith
I'm not someone that sits behind the computer with a fake username and talks trash.
And again.
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Originally Posted by Jimmy Smith
You can try to bring me down but it's not working,now I know your lives are pathetic enough that you love this and I'm sorry for that.
...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimmy Smith
I don't need you guys to understand, I don't care if you do. I told the truth that I had nothing to do with it. I have no reasons to come back here and defend myself. I'm not on trial...
Dude, like I said, if you're innocent, then why wouldn't you clear up some of our misunderstandings about the timeline and the web stuff? Calling us names and backing out the room like a wounded egoist isn't helping your cause. We're willing to give you a chance but you're not taking it.
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Originally Posted by Jimmy Smith
Yes because I'm not busy enough with real life, I have all this time to come on here and waste it with people who don't have the guts to go by their real names.
My name's Michael Wilson. I go to JP's summit every year, and I live in Houston, Texas. I'll give you my address and phone number if you want. I'm not just an internet guy.
And if you can't free up some time to defend yourself when your income is seriously at risk, then fine, that's your choice. If you have time to sell on the internet, why can't you defend your reputation on the internet?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimmy Smith
You want to bring me down and that's cool, I feel bad for you but there's really nothing more to say. I had full intentions of promoting the product and handed everything other to a company, they took it from there, I fired them and moved on with my life thinking the project was dead and I got scammed and just found about it now.
I didn't go ahead with the product because I didn't want to after going through a conflict with the company that wouldn't pay me anything back. I said screw it.
Fine, but the fact that you won't name them isn't heroic -- it's potentially dangerous to your friends and business partners who are at risk of partnering with the same company. If your story is true then this guy is at best immoral, and at worst guility of breaking multiple laws. Warn people!
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Originally Posted by Jimmy Smith
It happens, get over it, get a life, get outside. Stop posting on message boards.
Again, man, people buy your stuff over the web. And yet you're making fun of people who post on the web. Go ahead and attack your customer base if you want to. Even though you said we're not marketing experts, I'm guessing that attacking your customers isn't a great strategy.
We're trying to give you a fair shot.
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Fine, but the fact that you won't name them isn't heroic -- it's potentially dangerous to your friends and business partners who are at risk of partnering with the same company. If your story is true then this guy is at best immoral, and at worst guility of breaking multiple laws. Warn people!
We're trying to give you a fair shot.
A. To the beet of my knowledge, none of my friends in the industry use virtual assistants.
B. You might be fair but 3/4's of this place is accusing me and lives off negativity.
C.I honestly don't think they broke any laws. Could I sue them for using my name and representation. Sure but is it worth the time and money to track them down in India then go through with it? I don't think so at this point.
D. I wouldn't say that this is my whole customer base. I'm sure it is in a sense but a lot of it is the same people over and over again. You're either in or out with me. If you support me then I'll do anything for you but I'm sorry to say that I can't worry about the feelings of a few good people on this message board when it's litered with "haters" as they like to call their little circle group.
I have no reason to come back here and defend myself and for at least the immediate future I'm not posting here again.
I'd said my piece if you believe me then fine, I have love for you. If not, I don't care I have a business to run and I can't worry about trying to defend myself.
If it was you "Red Lefty" and some others that are asking questions to get to the bottom of it then I'd be happy to answer your questions. Hell, you can even email me. I'm not going to keep fighting about it though, you guys can think what you want.
D. I wouldn't say that this is my whole customer base. I'm sure it is in a sense but a lot of it is the same people over and over again. You're either in or out with me. If you support me then I'll do anything for you but I'm sorry to say that I can't worry about the feelings of a few good people on this message board when it's litered with "haters" as they like to call their little circle group.
So you are willing to disenfranchise people who would be in your customer base by calling them names?
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I have no reason to come back here and defend myself and for at least the immediate future I'm not posting here again.
You said that earlier and you came back.
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I'd said my piece if you believe me then fine, I have love for you. If not, I don't care I have a business to run and I can't worry about trying to defend myself.
If it was you "Red Lefty" and some others that are asking questions to get to the bottom of it then I'd be happy to answer your questions. Hell, you can even email me. I'm not going to keep fighting about it though, you guys can think what you want.
If by "your piece" you mean "call a bunch of the people on this board pathetic" then yes, you did.
These are legitimate questions, yet since they're obviously posted by people naked in their parents' basements, you can't answer them. How do I know you're not naked in your parents' basement?
At this point, officially mark me down in the "hate" club, or whatever column that seems appropriate. You've done nothing to show me that you aren't lying. But I'm pathetic, so my opinion doesn't really matter.
__________________
Quoth David Banner: "Like a pimp"
It's not a beer belly. It's a gas tank for a sex machine.
Wow, having read this whole thing over the last few days, I'm shocked. At first I thought Jimmy was guilty as sin. Then, his explanation sounded really plausible. Jimmy got sandbagged - poor guy! Next, people pointed out a couple of things that struck them as a bit odd, and asked Jimmy for some clarification.
WOW - now the ego comes out, the insults, and so on. Hey Jimmy - guess who just lost a customer for life? Hey Jimmy - guess what "pathetic internet forum poster" is going to make sure that whenever I talk to my friends about fitness, I tell them to NEVER buy your programs and point them in the direction of one of your peers/competitors.
THAT's why you don't bash fitness enthusiasts on the internet WHEN YOU SELL FITNESS PROGRAMS ON THE INTERNET. If you had any clue about marketing you'd know that you don't talk shit about the people you're asking to give you money. How do you like them apples?
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Wow, having read this whole thing over the last few days, I'm shocked. At first I thought Jimmy was guilty as sin. Then, his explanation sounded really plausible. Jimmy got sandbagged - poor guy! Next, people pointed out a couple of things that struck them as a bit odd, and asked Jimmy for some clarification.
WOW - now the ego comes out, the insults, and so on. Hey Jimmy - guess who just lost a customer for life? Hey Jimmy - guess what "pathetic internet forum poster" is going to make sure that whenever I talk to my friends about fitness, I tell them to NEVER buy your programs and point them in the direction of one of your peers/competitors.
THAT's why you don't bash fitness enthusiasts on the internet WHEN YOU SELL FITNESS PROGRAMS ON THE INTERNET. If you had any clue about marketing you'd know that you don't talk shit about the people you're asking to give you money. How do you like them apples?
Yes, this is pretty much how it went for me too, Chris. Jimmy obviously has some issues with certain board members. Fine, but the nature of the internet is that a whole lot of people are reading this, not just the few "haters". I'm turned off now and I won't be be buying or recommending these programs. It wasn't the "incident" that did it for me; it's Jimmy's unprofessional attitude towards his customer base. He keeps accusing others of not knowing anything about business but there are many of us in business on this board that clearly know a great deal more than he ever will. Pssst, Jimmy .... always take the high road .... don't burn bridges ... always take the high road ... don't burn bridges ... (and that advice is for free )
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This thread is being monitored. I would like to state that while I am not going to write a essay on how I feel about the subject that there are people here, specifically because of an interview on my site, that bought the Muscle Bible.
Because of such I feel they deserve the respect to be able to voice their opinions on the subject if they so decide too. So because of that I am asking for the thread to remain open but as a mod I must state that all responses to and from Jimmy be respectful and not go to a place of name calling.
This thread is being monitored. I would like to state that while I am not going to write a essay on how I feel about the subject that there are people here, specifically because of an interview on my site, that bought the Muscle Bible.
Because of such I feel they deserve the respect to be able to voice their opinions on the subject if they so decide too. So because of that I am asking for the thread to remain open but as a mod I must state that all responses to and from Jimmy be respectful and not go to a place of name calling.
So if I make a comment on "adrenal fatigue" and Jimmy possibly suffering from it and having momentary lapses of judgement it can be removed because someone doesn't like my opinion?
__________________
Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity.
Normally, not a problem JV, but because the thread was already heading in a negative direction as far as tone, and because the comment didn't really further the discussion much, at this point, it was decided to moderate it. It wasn't just one moderator who agreed that it should be moderated, it was more than one.
Now you've reposted the same thing. It's probably not going to be moderated again, but... c'mon dude.... just let it lay. Not to mention that the same joke was already made on the first page of this thread. At this point, repeating it does nothing positive.
So Jimmy, you say that you hired your vengeful webmaster 6-7 months ago (so Oct/Nov) and that you did pre-promotion articles for it and that those articles were written well before December. Fair enough. But the affiliatesdirectory entry for your program says Dec 23.
So why would you keep 'promoting' the program after your fall out with the renegade webmaster? Just to get marketing experience for your next project?
If you didnt send those articles then that implies that your 'article database submission software' also created affiliatedirectory entries linked to clickbank accounts. What kind of software does that?
Finally, why does you ineedmuscle.com site look exactly like the 29daystofasterfatloss one, down to the same testimonials on the affiliates page? Is your webmaster working on that project too or are you cutting/pasting from this old site that you had forgotten about?
Just looking for some clarity here so dont get all t-maggish and think that questioning = sabotage.
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I hope this makes sense and doesn't hurt anybody's feelings(seems to happen ALOT when products are questioned around here).
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It happens, get over it, get a life, get outside. Stop posting on message boards.
I've noticed that this is a common reply by internet expert/professionals/salesmen whenever their products are attacked. The "you're spending time arguing against me on a message board, therefore you must be a loser/idiot/whatever".
I'm just curious, does this "message board user=loser" mentality apply only to people who criticize you? What about the countless people who read your blog, your articles and the subsequent discussion on t-nation, and your sales copies. Do they need to "get a life", as well?
I ask because while it is very easy to you to bash the internet when people have legitimate concerns about your products, you rely on this same internet/message boards to make a living. How do you reconcile this?
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Last edited by ParanoidAndroid : 04-17-2008 at 02:05 PM.
Reason: spelling correction.
It all comes down, is it was you who started the page and you are responsible for what was put on that page. It is your information and reputation and you must be accountable for what you project whether it is a mistake or not.
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Jimmy, if you have a problem with what I say online, PM me and I'll give you my cell phone number, and we can talk it out.
I cannot say that you handle your online presence professionally, and it starts on your blog with some of the goofy syntax and awkward phrasings that occur. If you have an virtual assistant doing your blog for you, you may want to find someone a bit more conversant in written American English.
Jimmy, I'm going to give you some unsolicitied advice here and appeal to you on two levels. While I doubt you'll make another comment on this forum, I hope you'll consider it anyway. And I feel quite confident that you'll read this post, as the power of self-preservation runs strong in our species and you surely have a sense that forum threads like this can cost you money.
The reason I'm not sending this via email is that I feel all trainers should read it. If you've blasted forum participants in the past, or are considering it in the future, please take the following into account:
Appeal #1 -- Humanity
Yes, people had ridiculed you some on this thread. But not everyone. And your attacks on people by saying things like "pathetic", "no guts" and "get a life" do nothing constructive. Even if those things were true, calling them out into the open doesn't inspire change and doesn't draw others closer to you.
Your acceptance of people is apparently purely conditional:
"If you support me I'll do anything for you."
"If you believe me I have love for you."
If I were to behave the same way, then I would be required to hate you. Because you just ridiculed me and my friends. Is that what you're looking for? That's what you're putting out there.
There's a better way. When attacked, respond with class or not at all. When given an honest inquiry, provide an honest answer. It saves you stress and you'll always come out ahead.
Appeal #2 -- Business
From the little I know of your career so far, you understand the concept of scale. If you train somebody 1-on-1 and make $60 in an hour, that's not bad. If you train a roomful of 15 people for $40 each in an hour, you make $600 in an hour. That's better. If you make an online product with little variable costs, then sign up resellers and affiliates to drive revenue, you can make thousands of dollars with a product you only had to create one time. That's excellent. You clearly already understand this and are looking to take advantage of it.
Yet in this thread you offered to answer personal emails. That doesn't scale well. At the same time, you said won't comment in this thread anymore, even though it's well over 3,000 views and growing. You have the power of scale right here at your fingertips and you're missing it!
Let's assume for a moment that those 3,000 views represent 300 people who have each read it 10 times. And perhaps the 300 people break down like this:
-- 5 gym owners. These are potential future bosses. You aren't coming off well to them, I can assure you.
-- 50 professional trainers. These are potential future affiliates. You're showing people that they don't want to partner with you when they launch their own product next year.
-- 150 fitness enthusiasts. These aren't just potential customers, they're your potential salespeople. When we find a product or author we like, we don't just buy it once. We tell all our friends. Our non-enthusiast friends look to us for advice. We're one of your most powerful sales tools. Or we can be a powerful negative force, and tell all our friends to stay away from your stuff. Either way, our influence goes beyond a single purchase.
-- 95 random readers. They might not buy any of your stuff anyway. Congratulations, you lost nothing from them by acting out online. But you didn't gain anything either.
Be careful about your assumptions of who is on these forums. Some of us have some influence in this industry. Some of us are just simple enthusiasts with small social networks. Some of us have MBAs and have served as Marketing consultants to Fortune 500 companies, and don't take kindly to being told "if you knew anything about Marketing...".
Whether on a human level or out of pure self-interest as a businessman, an apology could do you a lot of good right now. Think about it. And even if you don't apologize, maybe next time you'll think for a few minutes before ranting like you did here.
Thanks for reading,
Michael Wilson
__________________ Megaloi -- My Blog
"Every society honors its live conformists and its dead troublemakers."
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