Ok, so I read Twight's piece first (mostly because it was published first) and then moved on to JF's piece, which I only glanced over. I think the reason I read the first one through and the second one...not so much is because, well the first one had a better opening. I mean as a writer you need to grab the reader's attention, but maybe I think it was better because it was new at the time, whereas the second piece is so similar to the first that it made it less interesting.
Anyhow, there are things that are very similar in both pieces, such as the tone of the article. I would expect it from Twight because Gym Jones seems to be able attitude. Whereas someone like JF you would see would want to inspire people, but make his writing geared to a broader market (even though this was posted at Elite FTS). The ideas were generally the same...you know what I'm done. At least he didn't use the quotes from the songs that Twight did....
I wouldn't necessarily call it plagiarism, but the idea of the piece was very similar. But then again 899/900 fat loss articles are the same rehashed bullshit as well...
But they are both riffing on the same idea Rollins, a better writer by far, put forth before either of them: Henry Rollins on Iron
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Working "hard," or the perception of working hard, doesn't really mean anything. Sweating, vomiting, and breathing hard could be a good workout or a tropical disease kicking in.-Dan John
It might not formally be plagarism, but I'd grade it pretty poorly as a prof if I were aware of the other piece. At least improve on the concepts in the original piece that inspired you.
Let's just broaden this out to the larger question of lots of people, say fitness professionals (broadly speaking) putting out similar info.
I have pretty rigorous standards; come up with your own stuff or don't write it/speak it. If you do draw upon someone else's work, quote it or credit it. At least reference what inspired you.
Granted, there is very little under the sun, so it's hard to be completely original.
So, if people can't be original, then maybe it means there are too many people trying to sell themselves doing the same stuff.
JP, I'm with Roland and Lisa: I got it and thought it was clever. It was a lot less funny by the time you explained it, but that's life on the information superhighway.
Yeah, that's always the problem if you have to explain your jokes. It's an annoying trait of my nine year old. He's actually pretty clever, although only about 50% of his word-plays and jokes are actually delivered effectively, then he nullifies the entire effect by giving a 10 minute dissertation on why the joke was funny.
If I were funnier maybe I could give him some tips on that. Unfortunately, I think he comes by his poor delivery honestly. Apple doesn't fall far from the tree as they say.
They both use light text on a black background JP. Plagiarism to some, flattery to others. You gotta use new colors that no one has ever used before or some internet critic will find you and bring your misdeed to light. Come to think of it, your forum looks suspiciously like many others - are you unethical, JP, or simply immoral?
They both use light text on a black background JP. Plagiarism to some, flattery to others. You gotta use new colors that no one has ever used before or some internet critic will find you and bring your misdeed to light. Come to think of it, your forum looks suspiciously like many others - are you unethical, JP, or simply immoral?
Its not so much the colors as is the content. Notice how on both sites they say the exact same thing in the exact same way with their own differences simply on the trimmings of the info.
Notice how now Ferg's site took down the info and now has
Quote:
If you have any questions about our products or services please contact us by emailing info@relentless-athletics.com and someone will get back to you as soon as possible.
Do these guru's really think we cant see through their bullshit? Add Ferg to the lazy guru list.
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"The strongest steel goes through the hottest fires."-Anonymous
"When you begin to believe nothing is heavy, all weights become light." -Rossbow
"Just remember, somewhere there is a little Chinese girl warming up with your max."-Jim Convroy
"It's a round hole, dammit. Everyone fits."--Anonymous Mod at Strengthmill
Actually, I didn't notice and neither did JP because, other than the colors, there was no similarity this morning. So.... really, at this point does it matter that he's on your lazy list? And if they had the exact same copy (and it was used with permission) does that make their products or services any less beneficial? I mean, very little real innovation is done in marketing; most innovation isn't discontinuous, but continuous in nature (refinements of the same thing). I think most people would be surprised at how similar ad copy is for products in the same category.
Their marketing strategies may be poor, duplicative, or not effective to some people on here. But the people on here may not be in the target demographic anyway. It's a cardinal sin in marketing to assume that you are the typical consumer. It seems, to me, that these sites and programs are aimed at people who know little or nothing about fitness and training, not at the average JP forumite. If we are finding fault with their marketing methods because of our familiarity with the industry and its offerings, maybe someone who would use their products wouldn't.
Actually, I didn't notice and neither did JP because, other than the colors, there was no similarity this morning.
Because the portion that shaf linked was recently re-edited.
Quote:
So.... really, at this point does it matter that he's on your lazy list?
His bullshit has been called out and made public so there it will stay.
Quote:
And if they had the exact same copy (and it was used with permission) does that make their products or services any less beneficial? I mean, very little real innovation is done in marketing; most innovation isn't discontinuous, but continuous in nature (refinements of the same thing). I think most people would be surprised at how similar ad copy is for products in the same category.
Their marketing strategies may be poor, duplicative, or not effective to some people on here. But the people on here may not be in the target demographic anyway. It's a cardinal sin in marketing to assume that you are the typical consumer. It seems, to me, that these sites and programs are aimed at people who know little or nothing about fitness and training, not at the average JP forumite. If we are finding fault with their marketing methods because of our familiarity with the industry and its offerings, maybe someone who would use their products wouldn't.
Im not criticizing under the assumption that Im their target demographic (in Ferg's case hes not after the total newb, hes after the self-depricated, emo, ectomorph who thinks hes a hardgainer but does 'know training' when in reality they probably dont know shit).
What keeps the criticism fresh is that these guys promote themselves as being the leading authorities on whatever or god's gift to training when really they either havent accomplished much or are doing really stupid shit that strains any sense of credibility.
A lot of people on this forum are trainers for various demographics but you dont see us pimping ourselves as the next great white hype. The reason (at least for me) is that I know I make mistakes so for me to claim that Im all that and the emerging leader/expert/whatever in the industry is just bullshit. As such, these guys get called out by not adhering to the very standard that they prop themselves up to be in.
At the end of the day, the people on this forum thinking about buying some of these products can make a more informed decision as what theyre getting into.
__________________
"The strongest steel goes through the hottest fires."-Anonymous
"When you begin to believe nothing is heavy, all weights become light." -Rossbow
"Just remember, somewhere there is a little Chinese girl warming up with your max."-Jim Convroy
"It's a round hole, dammit. Everyone fits."--Anonymous Mod at Strengthmill
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