To be totally honest with you, I have always admired, not only the raw power of Olympic Weightlifters BUT and, almost equally, I have admired their toned, well proportioned physiques. And I have to admit I've always wanted those two qualities.
This brings me to the question I have always asked but NEVER gotten a straight answer two (in saying this I urge anyone reading to this please give me some sort of response or at least point me in the right direction) and that is Why? Why do they have these physiques? I mean it does make sense that an athlete is an athlete and to see someone skinny and almost delapitated or ordinary, up on the stage would just seem odd, so why?
All the things I have been taught about muscle only growing when stressed under sustained tension, all this talk of sarcoplasmic and myofibrillar hypertrophy and how the later, which I assume is targeted during Olympic lifts and subsequentially during Olympic training, does, in fact, produce a more dense muscle with little hypertrophy, completely contradicts what is right in front of my face, at Athens at Bejiing, so, what do you people say? If I want to look like an Olympic Weightlifter, If I want to be as strong as an Olympic Weightlifter, do I simply train as an Olympic Weightlifter. Is there some "behind the scenes" hypertrophy training going on to improve their aesthetic's? Somehow I think not.
So, I've been lifting since I was 14, I'm now 18, and I have been constantly searching for a balance between appearance and functionality, because I've been shown, by various sources, that the two do not go hand in hand, that it is almost like a continum, if you will. Please if you have some experience, which I am sure you guys do, drop me a lifeline and tell me what you think I should do.
Remember that those pictured are often ELITE athletes, who are naturally athletic to begin with. They may have the genetic disposition to put on muscle in certain ways. Years and years of training effect on their physique add up, even if there's very little in the way of reps in each set. Steroids in some cases. Finally, remember that the fat and skinny ones aren't pictured.
Then I ask you, is it possible to have the best of all worlds, powerlifting, weightlifting and bodybuilding. Or is that edging on unrealistic? What do you recommend? To be able to look good(bodybuilding), but lift to the max of your potential(powerlifting) whilst training the speed-strength functionality of muscle(weightlifting). I saw a program combining all three, is that possible? would it work? would they detract from one another or promote gains? would it be to demanding? and lastly, is it realistic, I mean are there enough days in the week to train all three disciplines.
I'd do a more focussed powerlifting program, while eating enough to put on muscle, to build a good base.
I don't know why you'd want to learn the quick lifts if you weren't going to compete though, not much benefit in doing them. If you really had to, I'd get a good coach and work on technique for a few months before going heavy.
And as long as you don't eat too much and get fat, you'll look fine.
Alot of powerlifters and weighlifters look great(the ones in the right weight classes) and alot of bodybuilders are very strong. There is alot of crossover between them.
Is your goal to look awesome like those guys? Olympic lifting is really hard work, and looking awesome is secondary to their performance. Same with powerlifting.
I could write an article telling you to lift like those guys to look like those guys or I could write an article just telling you how to look like those guys. Which do you think will get you looking like those guys faster?
Article 1 might be more to your liking because it's motivational, seems more "functional" or purposeful, and doesn't seem so vain, but it's not the most efficient way to look awesome. It's going to take a long time to get good enough at those lifts to get a really good hypertrophy effect from them.
Sorry guys I guess I got confused somewhere and forgot to make my goals clear. Before I start I think I should mention that I have no intention of competing. I want to keep a healthy muscular frame, that's modest. I don't want the extremes of aesthetics that bodybuilders have, I have no need to spend hours perfecting every skeletal muscle in my body. So in saying that goal no.1: Look good with a well-rounded muscular physique.
Which brings me to my second goal, which resides in functional strength. I want to improve my 1RM significantly, I want to be as strong as I possibly can be. How do I do this? I have no clue, I know how to fatigue muscles in the 10RM range, I know how to induce hypertrophy, but I'm not sure how to become strong, and I mean physically strong. I am currently on an EDT style training regime (for hypertrophy) that I perform twice a week. I almost exclusively train with dumbbells but I have access to a gym near my house so equipment will not be a problem. I don't want to powerlift as in press,squat and dead, but I would rather like to make improvments in all major muscle-group exercise e.g squats, pull-ups, bench press, deads. So that everything is trained evenly. But in saying this I would like to train in that powerlifting style, of heavy weights, near the 1RM range. So in saying this goal no.2: Become as strong as I am capable of becoming
I don't compete, I don't plan to, I am strictly recreational, But I've always had the boyhood fantasy of being able to bench twice my body weight, or squat the like. I guess I'm what you'd call a serious-recreational, if there were such a thing. So do I make serious strength gains by training near my 1RM? is that it? do I train for fatigue or just train to lift the most weight? Do I train my CNS, is that it or will my muscles actually be able to exert considerable more force after training? As you can see I am confused. But they are my two goals.
PS: thanks to Lost Dog and Simon for helping me out this far.
I don't think that training for powerlifting is necessarily bad for training for hypertrophy, not in the way I train anyway, which I rarely go near my 1rm. My training has been successful in putting on muscle, and I could have put on a lot more than I did had I eaten more, but I purposely limit my weight due to the fact that I want to be competitive in a certain weight class.
As for the olympic lifts, well it would take a long time before your technique became proficient enough for them to be useful for hypertrophy, and even then they would not have any single advantage over other lifts in terms of gaining muscle, and probably be less effective. Learn the lifts for fun if you like.
Remember that once you get past the beginner stages, hypertrophy is a slow process, and gaining strength is even slower.
As for how to train, well I don't really want to tell you how to train, as there are many ways to skin a cat, many different methods work. Aslong as you are hitting the big compound lifts regularly, it should be okay. And don't make the mistake of thinking that training for strength means only doing low reps near the 1rm, again many ways to skin a cat, same thing with hypertrophy.
I'd suggest lifting, trying a few things, gaining experience, and educating yourself through experience and through research. I've never done a program before, and have always followed my own training programs, but a good place to start if you need one would probably be Jim Wendler's 5/3/1 program, or a basic 5x5, e.g. Mark Rippetoe's stuff, his books are good for educating yourself on the basics, although I disagree with a couple of things, he's pretty good.
If you want strength, then yes- work with low rep ranges and heavy loads on the compound lifts you mentioned (bench, dead, squat, military, etc). Then, also do accessory work with lighter weights / higher reps.
Your diet will mostly dictate what your body looks like. If you are thin now, lifting heavy and eating heavy will mean a lot of muscle added. If you are chunky now, don't eat a ton. Maybe do some cardio.
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Since most of your life is already complicated, why make your training the same way? Jim Wendler
As a novice Oly lifter (about 12mo = novice) who has trained with heavier weights for quite a while (but not in great form) , I can tell you it's dang frustrating to get form & technique 'right' .
This means that the actual weights are submaximal and aren't really good for hypertrophy. In the past few months I've been focusing more on getting better at Oly lifts, but to my utter dismay see that I'm losing strength on several other lifts that I still do (but not as much) like pullups, as there's simply not enough stimulus for them.
There's an article on T-Nation (now T-muscle?) that describes a program that has 4 different training days: one more geared towards BB, another towards PL, one towards OLY & the 4th one towards Strongman training.
The flaw of the program is that to get good at anything, once a week isn't enough.
Without patting my back too much I can say that every time I'm trying someone else's program, I keep going back to the core program I've been using since 2002 : rotating through various lifts at different intensities in such a way that you're training full body each time.
This can be either a 3- or a 4-split, but it has me training the main lifts at least twice and sometimes 3 times a week. Every time I end up trying to do a particular lift just once a week, strength regresses quickly.. as it's very much a neurological thing.
Muscle growth OTOH seems to be (for me at least) more about nutrient timing, proper recovery & sleep than about the type of stimulus.. obviously very high rep training isn't cutting it & neither is doing too few sets with low reps.
BTW, like LD said , the best looking Oly athletes are extremely genetically gifted, have trained for many years on end, have done secondary lifts to balance their physique, will have dieted to stay in a particular wt class & ... are using drugs .
Which brings me to my second goal, which resides in functional strength. I want to improve my 1RM significantly, I want to be as strong as I possibly can be. How do I do this? I have no clue, I know how to fatigue muscles in the 10RM range, I know how to induce hypertrophy, but I'm not sure how to become strong, and I mean physically strong. I am currently on an EDT style training regime (for hypertrophy) that I perform twice a week. I almost exclusively train with dumbbells but I have access to a gym near my house so equipment will not be a problem. I don't want to powerlift as in press,squat and dead, but I would rather like to make improvments in all major muscle-group exercise e.g squats, pull-ups, bench press, deads. So that everything is trained evenly. But in saying this I would like to train in that powerlifting style, of heavy weights, near the 1RM range. So in saying this goal no.2: Become as strong as I am capable of becoming
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Sounds like you need a program to follow and then trust the program to bring up your strength. Perhaps look at 5-3-1 or one of the Westside variations. Of course, you'd have to go with the barbell for the main lifts - but you said you could do that, right?
Is your goal to look awesome like those guys? Olympic lifting is really hard work, and looking awesome is secondary to their performance. Same with powerlifting.
I could write an article telling you to lift like those guys to look like those guys or I could write an article just telling you how to look like those guys. Which do you think will get you looking like those guys faster?
Article 1 might be more to your liking because it's motivational, seems more "functional" or purposeful, and doesn't seem so vain, but it's not the most efficient way to look awesome. It's going to take a long time to get good enough at those lifts to get a really good hypertrophy effect from them.
Thanks to everyone for the advice, I think I'm almost there, just a couple more questions.
1. You guys keep mentioning that to gain weight I need to eat alot, how much are we talking? to any of you guys have faith in supplements or can I get the same effect by just eating more food? lean meat, diary, veggies, wholgrains all that good stuff. Because frankly I don't really want to be downing large quantities of processed power that isn't FDA certified and tastes digusting anyway. I know that when training for hypertrophy that pre and post training nutrients e.g amino acids, carb replacement, are important, is it the same for strength training?
2. How do I integrate strength and hypertrophy training? I'm talking week to week, or should I do 9 weeks of hypertrophy followed by 9 weeks of strength? does it work like that. If I do combine them then how do I manage fatigue? and how do I manage training for strength and hypertrophy, twice in a week. That doesn't seem realistic. Does anyone have any suggestions?
3. How much more sleep a night am I going to need?
Thanks to everyone for the advice, I think I'm almost there, just a couple more questions.
1. You guys keep mentioning that to gain weight I need to eat alot, how much are we talking? to any of you guys have faith in supplements or can I get the same effect by just eating more food? lean meat, diary, veggies, wholgrains all that good stuff. Because frankly I don't really want to be downing large quantities of processed power that isn't FDA certified and tastes digusting anyway. I know that when training for hypertrophy that pre and post training nutrients e.g amino acids, carb replacement, are important, is it the same for strength training?
2. How do I integrate strength and hypertrophy training? I'm talking week to week, or should I do 9 weeks of hypertrophy followed by 9 weeks of strength? does it work like that. If I do combine them then how do I manage fatigue? and how do I manage training for strength and hypertrophy, twice in a week. That doesn't seem realistic. Does anyone have any suggestions?
3. How much more sleep a night am I going to need?
Just eat lots of food, enough so that you are putting on some weight, train for strength, and get atleast 7-8 hours.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LisaS
If I were a boy and had your goals I'd train for strength and eat at a surplus. You'll put on mass as well.
2. How do I integrate strength and hypertrophy training? I'm talking week to week, or should I do 9 weeks of hypertrophy followed by 9 weeks of strength? does it work like that. If I do combine them then how do I manage fatigue? and how do I manage training for strength and hypertrophy, twice in a week. That doesn't seem realistic. Does anyone have any suggestions?
Holy crap you really think there's an actual difference in strength and hypertrophy training?
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Holy crap? That's a little strong considering that most people think there are significant differences between a strength and a hypertrophy program. That's what books, magazines, and the internet tend to teach and lay out.
1. You guys keep mentioning that to gain weight I need to eat alot, how much are we talking? to any of you guys have faith in supplements or can I get the same effect by just eating more food? lean meat, diary, veggies, wholgrains all that good stuff. Because frankly I don't reall.......
2. How do I integrate strength and hypertrophy training? Does anyone have any suggestions?
3. How much more sleep a night am I going to need?
1. Eat, and pay attention to the scale. Over the course of a few weeks the scale should slowly rise. If it's not then you need to eat more. Because you're young it's hard to say what is too much weight gain. Typically, I'd say if you're gaining 3 to 4 pounds per month, over the course of a couple of months, you might want to scale back on the food a bit. But, at your age, and depending on your size three to four pounds per month might be ideal. It's safe to say that if you're gaining more than say 6-8 pounds per month that you're just putting on extra fat.
I don't use any supplements. I see nothing wrong with them. But, I really don't think that they are necessary.
2. I am a huge believer in a simple linear progression for noobs (like myself and you!). Just stick to simple compound movements and keep adding weight to the bar. You can't help but get bigger and stronger. Don't overthink it! Strength and Hypertrophy might have some slight differences, but they are far more closely related than they are seperate. If you want to get huge and strong then lift heavy and eat alot. If you want to get strong without getting huge then lift heavy and eat slightly less.
3. If you can consistently get eight hours you're fine. But, if you're younger then getting more (say ten hours) can be beneficial.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PowerManDL
Holy crap you really think there's an actual difference in strength and hypertrophy training?
I think that the majority of fitness enthusiasts and trainers think that way. I did until recently. Now I see different training methods as being either more CNS fatiguing, or mechanically fatiguing. But, they both induce strength and hypertrophy as long as you're above the minimum intensity threshold.
2. How do I integrate strength and hypertrophy training? I'm talking week to week, or should I do 9 weeks of hypertrophy followed by 9 weeks of strength? does it work like that. If I do combine them then how do I manage fatigue? and how do I manage training for strength and hypertrophy, twice in a week. That doesn't seem realistic. Does anyone have any suggestions?
You're 18 and looking to get stronger and add mass, so you might consider buying Starting Strength, NROL, or Built For Show. You shouldn't be worrying about laying out a program at this stage, you should just be following one.
Holy crap? That's a little strong considering that most people think there are significant differences between a strength and a hypertrophy program. That's what books, magazines, and the internet tend to teach and lay out.
Turns out I hate the fitness industry for spreading bullshit?
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Articles | Blog | Pirate my book. "Yeah, but you did your post grad thesis on trolling, so you don't count."
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I think that the majority of fitness enthusiasts and trainers think that way. I did until recently. Now I see different training methods as being either more CNS fatiguing, or mechanically fatiguing. But, they both induce strength and hypertrophy as long as you're above the minimum intensity threshold.
I think I read that somewhere...
There's differences in exercise specificity and a few other minor details
But for a beginner to show up and think "hmm I should do X routine for 'strength' or Y routine for 'mass' or maybe just mix 'em up!", as if they're two distinct things, well...that's not the person's fault, but it is does show the massive failings of an incompetent industry
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Articles | Blog | Pirate my book. "Yeah, but you did your post grad thesis on trolling, so you don't count."
-JP, endorsing how awesome I am
There's differences in exercise specificity and a few other minor details
But for a beginner to show up and think "hmm I should do X routine for 'strength' or Y routine for 'mass' or maybe just mix 'em up!", as if they're two distinct things, well...that's not the person's fault, but it is does show the massive failings of an incompetent industry
Wutever labcoat, where r ur pics?1?1?1!
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"The strongest steel goes through the hottest fires."-Anonymous
"When you begin to believe nothing is heavy, all weights become light." -Rossbow
"Just remember, somewhere there is a little Chinese girl warming up with your max."-Jim Convroy
"It's a round hole, dammit. Everyone fits."--Anonymous Mod at Strengthmill
There's differences in exercise specificity and a few other minor details
But for a beginner to show up and think "hmm I should do X routine for 'strength' or Y routine for 'mass' or maybe just mix 'em up!", as if they're two distinct things, well...that's not the person's fault, but it is does show the massive failings of an incompetent industry
1-3 reps for strength
8-12 reps for hypertrophy
12+ reps for muscle endurance
3rd year kinesiology course last semester says so.
You're 18 and looking to get stronger and add mass, so you might consider buying Starting Strength, NROL, or Built For Show. You shouldn't be worrying about laying out a program at this stage, you should just be following one.
I would pick 531 if I was in your situation myself, very simple program thats pretty hard to mess up. You will get stronger and gain LBM if you have a decent diet on any of the mentioned programs.
1-3 reps for strength
8-12 reps for hypertrophy
12+ reps for muscle endurance
3rd year kinesiology course last semester says so.
Lulz.
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"The strongest steel goes through the hottest fires."-Anonymous
"When you begin to believe nothing is heavy, all weights become light." -Rossbow
"Just remember, somewhere there is a little Chinese girl warming up with your max."-Jim Convroy
"It's a round hole, dammit. Everyone fits."--Anonymous Mod at Strengthmill
WTF IS THIS SHIT...When, WHEN did lifting and getting an admirable physique become so damn complicated?
All you need is to do heavy, basic lifts*, progressively overload until it stops working (then get into specializations and specifities such as isolation movements), and be consistent. If you wish to add muscle, eat in a caloric surplus. If you wish to lose fat, eat in a calorie deficit.
I mean damn; how retarded is the human race?
*Curls and Pulldowns are basics for arms. Suck it.
Weightlifting and Aesthetics
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Linear Mode
