The smolov cycle was designed for squatting, which is good because my squatting probably sucks more than anything.
BUT there are also the other lifts, you can not ignore them! So what is up with those? Now I have this splendid idea of treating them in the same way, after all it is a program with percentages of your 1RM and a 1RM is something you also have for BP and DL so you could apply it to those as well.
I assume it would be crazy to do the programm for everything at the same time, which may be the cause for me to come up with the idea. I also don't know how to apply it, you could just do the 3 exercises after each other in each workout but I expect the deadlift will then really be performed in dead status.
So what would you think?
Basically, this should be the program:
2 week intro cycle : (which I don't really understand either, I assume it is 3 sessions in aweek or something?)
I did the base mesocycle at the end of last year. It worked well and added a few kg's to my squat, first week was taxing on conditioning, but 2nd and 3rd were a breeze, I entered 95% of my 1rm into the calculator. This program was boring, as I did it by myself, would probably be better if you had somebody to the program with you. I didn't deadlift at all during this time.
I tried to do this for Bench Press, and I didn't improve at all, and got a sore shoulder!
I haven't tried it for deadlift, but deadlifts are alot more taxing than squats, so it probably wouldn't be a good idea. I prefer a lower volume for deadlifts.
I'm considering doing it again at the end of the year to get my raw squat a bit higher, the only thing stopping me is the fact that I'll have to do it alone, and squat in a rack without spotters for atleast 2 sessions a week.
Color me clueless but what I did find remarkable is how they want you to do sets of 9 reps on the first day and even to add a crazy amount of weight.
It's a bit silly to work with kilograms as an addition instead of a % of the 1RM. For someone who squats like 250 kg the kg advice sounds good.
The percentages they give are impossible for most people, if I end up doing the program again in December, I'll reduce the weights of each session by about 15kg.
That's too much I would get serious problems to keep competing in the female division!
But I also see at least part of the results produced by the program might very well be pharmacology based. And I am not seeking for pharmacology based results here so maybe better look for another program?
Or you can do it when you use it for squat only, but then accept that everything else will suck even more afterwards because you were not able to work on it when on this program...but in that case I also better look for another program.
Damn it is always the same thing, always when I see or try a program that looks good to me, people are coming to tell me how much drugs one should be doing when on a program like that!
I did the base mesocycle at the end of last year. It worked well and added a few kg's to my squat, first week was taxing on conditioning, but 2nd and 3rd were a breeze, I entered 95% of my 1rm into the calculator. This program was boring, as I did it by myself, would probably be better if you had somebody to the program with you. I didn't deadlift at all during this time.
I tried to do this for Bench Press, and I didn't improve at all, and got a sore shoulder!
I haven't tried it for deadlift, but deadlifts are alot more taxing than squats, so it probably wouldn't be a good idea. I prefer a lower volume for deadlifts.
I'm considering doing it again at the end of the year to get my raw squat a bit higher, the only thing stopping me is the fact that I'll have to do it alone, and squat in a rack without spotters for atleast 2 sessions a week.
If needed I would go into the rack without spotters every single day. When I pacticed weightlifting, I did it 4 times a week as well. Such things would only pose a problem if it does not work.
In a way I have the same experience with the BP, I also had it not improving on programs that did improve my squat. So maybe it is just different, I don't have a clue why though.
And I have also done heavy DL 3 times in one week, so I should not have been asking: I already know that was not such a good idea.
Damn again.
I find I can probably only bench 2 times a week and make progress, any more and it's too much.
For squat, 4 times worked well, but I don't think that would work if I was also deadlifting at the time.
I've never tried deadlifting more than once a week.
As I want to put equal effort into all 3 lifts most of the time, I end up benching twice a week, and doing squats twice a week(once very light) and deadlifts once a week. I don't think I could handle any more than that.
That's too much I would get serious problems to keep competing in the female division!
But I also see at least part of the results produced by the program might very well be pharmacology based. And I am not seeking for pharmacology based results here so maybe better look for another program?
Or you can do it when you use it for squat only, but then accept that everything else will suck even more afterwards because you were not able to work on it when on this program...but in that case I also better look for another program.
Damn it is always the same thing, always when I see or try a program that looks good to me, people are coming to tell me how much drugs one should be doing when on a program like that!
Turns out that specialized accumulation cycles are only supposed to be used by certain people for certain goals?
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Since I know nothing about her other than she wants to build her core lifts and evidently has a good work capacity, it's really hard to say other than "train the lifts heavy and somewhat often, and add weight to the bar".
Give me more detail and I can give more detail.
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MissDL can answer best for herself but all I do know that she just stopped doing Oly -lifting (4x/wk) while still working on some PL-/BB-stuff (2x/wk) & going back to PL after all. Her most recent lifts are in the journal she just started in the Oly section.
The "evidency" of my working capacity makes me think he already read my journal. Otherwise I also have no idea what kind of detail is needed more,but maybe PowerManDL can give some more detail on that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PowerManDL
Turns out that specialized accumulation cycles are only supposed to be used by certain people for certain goals?
I assumed the cycle is meant for contest preparation, so I am thinking about using it for that, not for using it now. But in a contest you will have to benchpress and deadlift as well.
Mabye the Smolov is more geared towards a singular test of squatting strength?
I can't believe a powerlifter would use the Smolov exclusively in a preparation for a PL-meet.. doing them for all 3 lifts would (according to what SimonC says) be too crushing & do them for squat alone would not be good for the other 2 lifts..
when powerlifters use smolov its usually in the offseason as if you do it for the squat, you are going to have to put the other lifts a little to the side.
The first time I ran smolov for squats, I just did the base meso cycle, then added in a 4th week (used the 3rd weeks weights + 10lbs). I based the program on a very heavy double, which I would consider to be my 3rm.
The gains where excellent on the program, but it was pretty brutal. This was around 2 years ago and I still havn't managed to fully fix a glute/hamstring problem which I encountered in the program. Looking back this was likely my own fault for improper warmups, but it is still a very taxing program and I am not sure that warmups would have made a difference.
I am running a smolov experiment right now as I have no contests coming up for a while. I am doing the base meso cycle. Instead of squatting 4x per week, I am squatting every other day. Also I am using box squats instead of free squats, as I find they increase my squat more then free squatting itself.
I just finished the 4th week of the cycle (but because of every other day squatting its taken me around 5 weeks). I plan on doing at least 2 more weeks of it, I had not done a raw squat in ages so I only used 475lbs in the calculator, which is far below my all time max, but likely only 50lbs from current max.
For the 4th week I added 10lbs to every day. The fifth week I will be doing the same, and ive yet to determine the loading for the 6th, going to have to see how bad week 5 is.
You dont need to be chemically enhanced to run smolov, especially not 3 weeks. I'm drug free and I don't see why you would need them for this. I would say though, that you have to be eating a hell of a lot of food as well as resting/sleeping as much as possible.
I have been trying it for the bench press but I have found my recovery abilities to be far less in that area, and I have lowered the benching to about 2x per week. Unsure if i'm going to progress here.
For your goals I really don't think smolov is the answer. Smolov for deadlifts sounds pretty brutal. For squats it beat you up enough, my upperback bleeds while squatting now because the knurling on the bar has ripped it appart from the high frequency of squatting. When I decent I can hear scar tissue popping in my glute too. The program makes you a bit of a mess, but it does work.
long post - check recent entries in my log and I have more thoughts on smolov in there.
I assumed the cycle is meant for contest preparation, so I am thinking about using it for that, not for using it now. But in a contest you will have to benchpress and deadlift as well.
Smolov was not a powerlifting coach. This squat program was not for powerlifting. It can be used by powerlifters.
If you want a high volume program, for all three lifts, set up for peaking into a competition, use one of the many sheiko programs.
I have been trying it for the bench press but I have found my recovery abilities to be far less in that area, and I have lowered the benching to about 2x per week. Unsure if i'm going to progress here.
Interesting that we both pretty much found the same thing.
Frank, you need to do smolov for deadlifts, and then we will have an answer for that too!
There is a good point in Smolov being not a PL coach, he was a weightlifting coach wasn't he?
I have been looking to the Sheikos now as well, you can indeed say pick one of the many, that is just an awfull amount of programs but I think they all contain only 3 sessions in a week,that is just not enough I will then go and fill the other days with all kinds of crap I should not be doing and then ask why my recovery rate is apparently the same as that of old people receiving cytotoxic drugs....
on the other hand I would be doing that on a 4 days a week squat only program as well I guess...
So are there any programs around that keep you buisy for 6 days a week anyway?
Oh Frank I did not find it in your log, where is it then? Not really recent maybe?
That's meant as sarcasm I suppose, not actual advice.
MissDL , what do you like better : being as strong as you can be or training as often as you want, even when it means less than optimal results?
Not truly meant as criticism, just to determine what is your actual preference.
For strength, taking time to recover is (apparently/obviously) crucial.
For general fitness where strength is not crucial, you can obviously train more often.
OCD like obsessive compulsive disorder?
well, I don't think I have that, but it could be somewhat close indeed, I do feel like getting fat and maybe even loose muscle at the same time when I am not training so much and I don't know if this is reasonable.
I am also not sure it is not, though. This is because those professional athletes, who are more like what I would like to be than most people I see training 3 times a week, are all training so much so if I don't, I won't get the results they are getting.
Off course it is also perfectly possible to train so much and also not have the results, which in a way feels even more stupid than not training and not have the results. But with the last possibility, it seems to be clear what should be done about it, which gets the circle closed.
You can still try to convince me of something else because I also don't like the situation of trying it but not get the results. In the meantime I will look for the other Sheikos, sarcasm or not.
Maybe you are right when it comes to strength only Espi. But I really can't accept any loss of "general fitness" as long as I still see huge amounts of girls who are stronger AND leaner AND more muscular (etcetera, etcetera) than me.
In the end it is you who has to decide MissDL & perhaps you can choose a program that's just below that of a professional athlete.. while you do seem to have the capacity, 99% of the pros aren't working or studying full-time AFAIK & of course just about the same amount of them is chemically assisted.
Can somebody maybe get me a link to the advanced Sheikos?
May be rewarded by seeing me actually perform one, with the potential of getting killed etc! will be real fun!
(I don't hate hard training, but do hate searching the entire fucking internet)
Ive heard mostly positive feedback from people who use sheiko. The only downside people mention is the lack of maximal weights (compared to westside which alot of powerlifters follow).
I don't see a problem with less maximal weights, the workouts may be a little more boring, but if its the results you are after it shouldn't matter.
There is no doubt sheikos programs are better designed then the smolov cycle.. smolov is actually pretty stupid if you think about it, but the results people do generally get are good.
Interesting that we both pretty much found the same thing.
Frank, you need to do smolov for deadlifts, and then we will have an answer for that too!
The problem is that my upperbody is just not ready for that much work. Ive always had less recovery abilities for upperbody lifts for whatever reason. I think if I spent 5-6 months really working on getting my upperbody to handle more volume, I would then get some pretty decent results.
One thing that I think is an advantage for me, is all the geared squatting and squatting with overloaded weights (using bands). No matter what, the weights on smolov are never going to feel heavy on my back. Mentally I think that this is a big help. I'm not going to find 500lbs heavy when i have gone months handling 700+ every weekend before.
I have considered doing a high volume approach for deadlifts in the offseason, I am mostly worried about it effecting my squatting. In the future, I am sure I will try something like this.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Deadlift
Oh Frank I did not find it in your log, where is it then? Not really recent maybe?
Was a while ago, Can't find it either, my log on a few sites, maybe i posted it elsewhere and not here by accident.
More or less what I posted about smolov was that, it works, it sucks to do, and its stupid. Its not really very complicated, you work your ass off for 3+ weeks and you will get stronger. There is no magical %s behind the program or anything. If your work capacity is high, its not going to be too brutal. If it is low, its going to really suck.
I would imagine a good chunk of people that start smolov do not finish it because they are not ready for it in the first place. If you are squatting 1x per week for say 5x5 with 300lbs thats around 7500lbs for the week.
if you set your max to say 360lbs and do smolov, you are going to be doing > 37000lbs the first week, thats approx 5x the volume. How many people can handle that without working up to it first, I would imagine is small.
Smolov for everything?
I would get serious problems to keep competing in the female division! 
and I don't know if this is reasonable. 
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