I noticed when I push out the last two reps of a squat that my left knee tends to push out. It only happens on heavier/lower rep squats. I can be wiped at the end of a set of 10-12, and barely make #12, and it doesn't happen. But, the last 1 or 2 on a set of 3 or 5 shows it almost every time.
It happens with back squats and zercher squats, btw. My front squats aren't really heavy enough to get me yet, I guess.
You don't squat with a wide stance the way a competing powerlifter would, though. You use a stance wider than you would for oly squats.
How far out are we talking here? As far as your knee movement.
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It would be great if you could get a pic or video.
When I power squat my knees are pressed hard to the outside as I try to push the floor apart with my feet. Is it abnormally moving out or could it be that the right knee needs to push out more?
I just started doing squats but I'm curious, is it the knee pushing out or the entire thigh? Wouldn't that be a weakness in the inner thigh hip thing or the glute stabilizing it on the opposite end? I assume it's not the ankle but who knows. Just throwing out ideas I really have no idea, but it's definitely interesting.
I just started doing squats but I'm curious, is it the knee pushing out or the entire thigh? Wouldn't that be a weakness in the inner thigh hip thing or the glute stabilizing it on the opposite end? I assume it's not the ankle but who knows. Just throwing out ideas I really have no idea, but it's definitely interesting.
The whole leg. The knee is just leading the charge!
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"When you begin to believe nothing is heavy, all weights become light." -Rossbow
"Just remember, somewhere there is a little Chinese girl warming up with your max."-Jim Convroy
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There's one problem right there. Get yourself some Chucks if you are going to squat wide. Never lift in cross trainers unless you are high repping. Personally I would squat with no shoes before I squatted in cross trainers.
Then again, I also believe that you should lift part of the time in the type of shoes that you compete in, so if you are a tennis player, then I believe you should train a little with weights in your tennis shoes, etc.
If you do not compete in an athletic event, then get some Chucks for wide squatting and some Adidas Oly shoes if you narrow squat. That will help greatly.
And yes, please please get video, we need to see what is really happening. Honestly if you are watching yourself in the mirror you are not going to have a great view of what is going on.
A little dog to dog here... I don't squat THAT wide. I forget that I've gotten better. I used to squat and deadlift a lot wider, but I've improved my flexibility a bit and just don't really notice it.
My goal is not a big squat, but to squat as big as I can in whatever position I can manage. I do a lot of unilateral stuff, but it was getting boring, so I squatted and noticed the "issue." I was so freakin' happy that my feet didn't roll in that I kept going.
I have Chucks, but only for deadlifting. I'm more likely to get some weightlifting shoes, if anything. ...and I won't be doing anything more than bodyweight in barefeet, and even then... I just got over plantar fasciitis. Not that you could know that. It was horrible.
GQ's seen me squat in person, so I'm afraid to post the video. I have been doing the stretching and rolling, and I got the orthotics from my doctor (hence, the feet not rolling in anymore).
I don't mean to hijack the thread or anything, but I have been lifting for years in cross trainers and I guess I just didn't know any better. My shoes are falling apart and I need some new ones anyway, should I get a pair of flat shoes like chucks, or something else?
AS,yes, get yourself some shoes with very little to no cushioning. The more cushioning that you have, the less power that you can transfer to the ground as your shoes sink. Not to mention the possibility of rolling your ankle. If you are playing sports, such as basketball, then it would be appropriate to lift with higher rep ranges and less weight in the type of shoes that you play in, but when handling heavier weights I firmly believe that you need to wear the right shoes. When you are handling heavy weights a lot can go wrong very quickly.
AS,yes, get yourself some shoes with very little to no cushioning. The more cushioning that you have, the less power that you can transfer to the ground as your shoes sink. Not to mention the possibility of rolling your ankle. If you are playing sports, such as basketball, then it would be appropriate to lift with higher rep ranges and less weight in the type of shoes that you play in, but when handling heavier weights I firmly believe that you need to wear the right shoes. When you are handling heavy weights a lot can go wrong very quickly.
Lay off the westside for a bit and wait til you see a video before recommending shoes. Hes got a collapsing arch so chucks are going to do nothing for his foot mechanics.
Lots of chirping in this thread.
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"The strongest steel goes through the hottest fires."-Anonymous
"When you begin to believe nothing is heavy, all weights become light." -Rossbow
"Just remember, somewhere there is a little Chinese girl warming up with your max."-Jim Convroy
"It's a round hole, dammit. Everyone fits."--Anonymous Mod at Strengthmill
Roland, just hazarding a guess here but it may be that you have a post. chain strength imbalance so that your left glute/ham is having to work harder.
If you know the left is weaker than a bit of extra volume on the left during unilateral movements might do it.
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Hes got a collapsing arch so chucks are going to do nothing for his foot mechanics.
I think his last comment was directed towards me, not Lost Dog. I was just wondering if, in general..barring any imbalances, if I should get another type of shoe for lifting purposes.
If I remember right, in the exercise pictures in Maximum Strength, EC deadlifts barefoot, uses chucks for box squats, and front squats in some kind of regular tennis shoe.
Lay off the westside for a bit and wait til you see a video before recommending shoes. Hes got a collapsing arch so chucks are going to do nothing for his foot mechanics.
Lots of chirping in this thread.
Calm down there, I was not talking to Lost Dog. If you read the first sentence I was talking to AS. Westside what?
On a side note I tried to squat in cross trainers yesterday and it was a weird feeling after lifting in shoes with no cushioning. My strength dropped by about 10%.
I think his last comment was directed towards me, not Lost Dog. I was just wondering if, in general..barring any imbalances, if I should get another type of shoe for lifting purposes.
If I remember right, in the exercise pictures in Maximum Strength, EC deadlifts barefoot, uses chucks for box squats, and front squats in some kind of regular tennis shoe.
It doesnt matter. If your foot mechanics are fucked, it doesnt matter if you squat wide or narrow, you need a shoe for your foot instead of some generic PLing dogma. Chucks and being barefoot are fine if you have a level foot that doesnt roll, twist, or cave during any of the movement, but most people arent like that.
Example: PLing friend of mine tore his quad because hes a mad suprinator and was squatting in sambas. I told him to get an orthotic in that shoe to avoid the hamstring pain and hip bursitis he was feeling months before he tore the quad.
PS: his wife squats in oly shoes becuase thats what works for her strucuture.
__________________
"The strongest steel goes through the hottest fires."-Anonymous
"When you begin to believe nothing is heavy, all weights become light." -Rossbow
"Just remember, somewhere there is a little Chinese girl warming up with your max."-Jim Convroy
"It's a round hole, dammit. Everyone fits."--Anonymous Mod at Strengthmill
GQ, I see what you are saying but I don't see how collapsed arches cause the knee/leg to push out during squatting. I'm not an expert on this obviously but I would assume that a collapsed arch would cause pronation of the feet and would cause the leg to collapse in. So for my knowledge can you explain this?
I have flat feet as well, so I'm interested to know.
Just for the record, if not squatting is the prescription, I'm okay with that...
It's been a while since I squatted, but my legs didn't feel this wobbly at higher numbers before. I've been feeling weak, lately, so I really cut back on the lower body volume for the past two weeks. And most of my squatting has been front squats at lower numbers.
I had noticed the knee going out before, but only when I tried for 275-300. I pretty much stopped there and went a few months with no squatting less than about 8 reps, and front squats, at that.
Here's my ugliness. Forgive the low res... I just have a camera, not a video camera. And this is the best angle I could get, setting the camera on the windowsill.
GQ, I see what you are saying but I don't see how collapsed arches cause the knee/leg to push out during squatting. I'm not an expert on this obviously but I would assume that a collapsed arch would cause pronation of the feet and would cause the leg to collapse in. So for my knowledge can you explain this?
I have flat feet as well, so I'm interested to know.
If the foot collapses inward, it can cause the knee to shift inward unless the ankle complex absorbs the shock (that may cause pain in and of itself depending on the structure of the joint).
If the ankle doesnt absorb the force, it will buckle inward as well and then you have to move up to the next joint which is the knee. In order for the knee to keep from drifting inward, you have to push it out further and this can cause an imbalance in the quad and cause the knee to track diagonally rather than verticle = knee pain. If the knee doesnt absorb it, then you move to the hip, and the story starts all over again.
__________________
"The strongest steel goes through the hottest fires."-Anonymous
"When you begin to believe nothing is heavy, all weights become light." -Rossbow
"Just remember, somewhere there is a little Chinese girl warming up with your max."-Jim Convroy
"It's a round hole, dammit. Everyone fits."--Anonymous Mod at Strengthmill
Just for the record, if not squatting is the prescription, I'm okay with that...
It's been a while since I squatted, but my legs didn't feel this wobbly at higher numbers before. I've been feeling weak, lately, so I really cut back on the lower body volume for the past two weeks. And most of my squatting has been front squats at lower numbers.
I had noticed the knee going out before, but only when I tried for 275-300. I pretty much stopped there and went a few months with no squatting less than about 8 reps, and front squats, at that.
Here's my ugliness. Forgive the low res... I just have a camera, not a video camera. And this is the best angle I could get, setting the camera on the windowsill.
Youre shifting your weight onto your left (vid's right) side and thus pressing more on it. That compression is why youre noticing it push out. Its more noticeable on the first vid but its still there in the 2nd vid.
Also, it may be the the camera, but it doesnt look like your feet are inline. Your left (vid right) foot looks like its in front of the other foot. With that youre going to have to twist a bit to squat. Since its your lead leg, when you twist onto to it, youre going to shift more weight onto it because of that momentum and maybe because its just your stronger/more mobile/whatever leg.
Either way, get your feet lined up and then see what happens.
__________________
"The strongest steel goes through the hottest fires."-Anonymous
"When you begin to believe nothing is heavy, all weights become light." -Rossbow
"Just remember, somewhere there is a little Chinese girl warming up with your max."-Jim Convroy
"It's a round hole, dammit. Everyone fits."--Anonymous Mod at Strengthmill
Left knee heads even lefter when squatting
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