I think its just me but lately, I've been noticing many biceps tear from guys (mainly powerlifters) deadlifting. They all seem to be in the arm that is supinated which makes sense to me, but has it always been this common in deadlifting maximal weights?
I understand that there are probably many reasons why a bicep can tear. However, in regards to it's involvement in the deadlift, what do you guys think the main problems are? I'm not a powerlifter. I just like deadlifting, but I've heard that some powerlifters avoid doing little to no direct biceps exercises. If this is true, could this be one of the reasons why an injury like this can occur?
Have any of you encounter this type of injury from deadlifting before and what do you think are the appropriate approaches one can take to avoid it? Thanks.
All sources say that the supinated jand gets it. I have never seen one due to deadlifting, mainly because the guys I know are not very strong.
From what I know - the main problem is that the active tissues(muscles) develop way slower than the passive tissues(tendons, ligaments, bones). Having biceps tears occur more often is a sign that:
- people lift with better form, therefore they lift enough weight with good form as to tear a biceps versus herniating a disc
- people lift heavy, meaning that they are concerned with strength
- people get stronger in less time, meaning that they read and ask in order to get good info.
Main problem: hypertrophy, strength, power. These are the main goals and everyone should cycle them and include on or the other at some point in their workouts. Here's what I'm saying - don't get as strong as you can as fast as you can. Take your time in order to have long term success. Take some time to allow your tendons to be as prepared for the big weights as your muscles.
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Tsvetan Vasilev
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Ive seen it happen a handful of times, most of the time is because of a hitched weight or a bent arm at the start of the pull. its always the hand with the reverse grip.
most powerlifters do very little/no bicep work so that could have something to do with it. Also, stretching the biceps i feel is going to help in avoiding a tear.
just a risk powerlifters take, in the whole scheme of things a bicep tear isn't a big deal.
Its fairly common, id day one in five powerlifters who have been doing it for more then 5 years. most people recovery pretty quick and dont talk about it much. of the guys i train with, i bet its closer to 50%.
It's not THAT common lol. I'm with Frank and think most of the time when it happens it's because of hitching and a slightly bent arm.
Sometimes though it just happens, and there's nothing to be done about it.
we've gone through this before. You have a higher risk if you bend your arm, but that doesn't mean that a good number of people who tear their bis keep their arms straight.
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the main problem is that the active tissues(muscles) develop way slower than the passive tissues(tendons, ligaments, bones).
Reverse that.
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And major action will certainly make you feel a bit uncomfortable, which is absolutely fine. You've gotta get excited about feeling uncomfortable, you've gotta love feeling slightly uncomfortable, because you know that you're stepping outside the boundaries that you used to create.
Zach Even-Esh
I've made some huge mistakes, but they were necessary, because without them I wouldn't have learned anything.
-Dave Tate
Anyhow, I appreciate all the input. I guess the price we pay for wanting to lift maximal weights is that we put ourselves at a higher risk for injury, but I'm sure most of us already knew that. However, it's good to know that there are many things we can do to help decrease those risk.
I was looking through some of Eric Cressy's articles and saw his article on "Mastering the Deadlift". He also mentions the flex elbow during the start of the pull. I can definitely see how this type of ballistic flexing and extending of the elbow can cause a bicep tear. I've always done my DL with trying to produce tension in my arms prior to the actual pull even when I'm doing reps. I'm not sure if this helps but it reminds me to stay tight and avoid any ballistic movement of the joints.
Anyhow, I appreciate all the input. I guess the price we pay for wanting to lift maximal weights is that we put ourselves at a higher risk for injury, but I'm sure most of us already knew that. However, it's good to know that there are many things we can do to help decrease those risk.
I was looking through some of Eric Cressy's articles and saw his article on "Mastering the Deadlift". He also mentions the flex elbow during the start of the pull. I can definitely see how this type of ballistic flexing and extending of the elbow can cause a bicep tear. I've always done my DL with trying to produce tension in my arms prior to the actual pull even when I'm doing reps. I'm not sure if this helps but it reminds me to stay tight and avoid any ballistic movement of the joints.
Something your deadlifting should be way too heavy to curl. Think of the arms as dead strings, attached to the weight- bent arms when deadlifting inst fun especially if you allow 500lb to straighten them out for you.
Ive seen it happen a handful of times, most of the time is because of a hitched weight or a bent arm at the start of the pull. its always the hand with the reverse grip.
no hitch, no bent arm.
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And major action will certainly make you feel a bit uncomfortable, which is absolutely fine. You've gotta get excited about feeling uncomfortable, you've gotta love feeling slightly uncomfortable, because you know that you're stepping outside the boundaries that you used to create.
Zach Even-Esh
I've made some huge mistakes, but they were necessary, because without them I wouldn't have learned anything.
-Dave Tate
What did the guy do after it happened?
I mean, what's your reaction? Go straight to a hospital?
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And major action will certainly make you feel a bit uncomfortable, which is absolutely fine. You've gotta get excited about feeling uncomfortable, you've gotta love feeling slightly uncomfortable, because you know that you're stepping outside the boundaries that you used to create.
Zach Even-Esh
I've made some huge mistakes, but they were necessary, because without them I wouldn't have learned anything.
-Dave Tate
it depends on the tear, and if surgery is required. It may just be fibers and not require surgery. In a case like that though, i'm pretty sure surgery would be required if you want 80% strength out of it.
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The guy just iced it, got surgery within a week(apparently you have to get it done within a week or so). Has been back training for a while, seems to be back to normal, the tear was in april.
The guy just iced it, got surgery within a week(apparently you have to get it done within a week or so). Has been back training for a while, seems to be back to normal, the tear was in april.
I tore my left pectoralis January 15, 2008. It was a Tuesday and it happened at about 4:40PM - a date and time I will never forget. Long story short, I tore it bench pressing. I am now 32 weeks post-operative and have begun shoulder work in the gym, but still can only do push ups for my pecs.
This is by far the worst injury I've ever sustained, and takes longer to heal from surgery compared to bicep tear repairs.
My recommendation to avoid this injury is to stretch before, during , and after your workouts.
In the past, this type of injury was pretty much specific to guys taking anabolic steroids. I have never seen the stuff in person let alone use that garbage. I suspect the injury is becoming more common to natural guys (like most of us -I hope) due to the fact that we're getting stronger as a population. So may argue this, and I don't want to make it the focal point of discsussion. Just make sure you stretch and warm-up before doing biceps, pecs, hamstrings, etc...
it depends on the tear, and if surgery is required. It may just be fibers and not require surgery. In a case like that though, i'm pretty sure surgery would be required if you want 80% strength out of it.
I have a frayed biceps tendon in my left arm (I didn't injure it deadlifting, but the repair is the same). I am having a biceps tenodesis procedure next Wednesday, as the injury hasn't responded to steroid therapy and rest. Doc. suspects I may have a Labral tear as well, but they won't know until they get in there.
I'll be in a sling for 6 weeks post-op, and then it will be 3-4 months before it will be fully healed. There will be PT in there as well. I can give you guys the gory details on the procedure if you like.
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Come to the Darkside.... we've got cookies!
I have a frayed biceps tendon in my left arm (I didn't injure it deadlifting, but the repair is the same). I am having a biceps tenodesis procedure next Wednesday, as the injury hasn't responded to steroid therapy and rest. Doc. suspects I may have a Labral tear as well, but they won't know until they get in there.
I'll be in a sling for 6 weeks post-op, and then it will be 3-4 months before it will be fully healed. There will be PT in there as well. I can give you guys the gory details on the procedure if you like.
yes! post up the gory stuff. the gorier the better.
how are they going to tell if you have a laberal tear? wouldn't the incision be in a separate part of the shoulder/bi area?
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My injury:
I am 99% sure I injured my biceps tendon by doing db snatches (I can trace the beginning of the pain and almost immediate decline in strength to when I first started doing this exercise) back in late June. At first I thought the pain was simply muscle soreness, but by mid-July I figured out there was something else going on and sw my ortho. I had an MRI 2 days before leaving to go on a 2 week SCUBA diving vacation. By the time I returned from vacation my shoulder was in such bad shape that I couldn't lift a glass to take a drink without severe pain. I saw the doc the day after I returned to get the MRI results- frayed biceps tendon. Initially he treated with oral steroids and rest- which didn't make any real improvement. Next step was a steroid injection into the tendon sheath- this bought me about 48 hours of relief. I was supposed to have a 3 week followup on this procedure, but since the pain came back so fast I was back in the office in 10 days- that was yesterday. The next step is surgical repair of the biceps tendon and a suspected labral tear (which will be confirmed when he gets in there).
How does a biceps tendon fray? The biceps tendon sits in a groove. As it moves, it can slip out of the groove and rub on the edges, causing fraying. In my case I suspect that this occured because I am hypermobile in every joint I can identify (my normal range of motion is hyperextension). I think that when doing the db snatch my shoulder was hyperextending enough to allow a fair amount of unnatural movement in the joint, causing the biceps tendon to slip out of the groove and rub. (FYI- I exhibited symtoms bilaterally- the right shoulder responded to oral steroids and rest- I had MRI's on both shoulders). Some individuals also have congenitally shallow grooves, which sort of "pre-disposes" them to biceps tendon fraying. The repair: I am having an arthroscopic repair. They will dissect the long head of the biceps tendon from it's attachment point, and move it to a new attachment point, thus removing it from the groove. This will not impact either the functionality or the cosmetics of the bicep. To re-attach the long head of the biceps tendon they will abrade the bone and insert suture anchors (they look like drywall anchors with sutures attached) and suture the tendon down. The shoulder will have to remain mostly immobile for 6 weeks in a sling. After that I will start physical therapy. No real lifting (or diving) for 3-4 months post op. I was a little surprised by that- I had an ACL reconstruction (allograft) 7 years ago, and was back in the water in 6 weeks. The difference here is that they want to make sure the new attachment point has healed and is solid before allowing any over head motions- if the repair detaches, the whole procedure has to be repeated. What I likely have is a SLAP tear
http://orthopedics.about.com/c s/generalshoulder/a/slap.htm In either case the biceps tenodesis will repair the problem. Becuase the SLAP tear doesn't show up well on an MRI, my surgeon won't know about Labrum involvement until he gets in there. Regardless- the biceps tenodesis procedure is indicated and has the best success rate.
My injury mechanism was different than the deadlift injury under discussion, but the repair procedure is the same regardless. My surgery is scheduled for next Wednesday, and if you guys are interested I can give updates afterwards on the recovery process.
Sorry for writing a book!
Heather
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Come to the Darkside.... we've got cookies!
My injury:
I am 99% sure I injured my biceps tendon by doing db snatches (I can trace the beginning of the pain and almost immediate decline in strength to when I first started doing this exercise) back in late June. At first I thought the pain was simply muscle soreness, but by mid-July I figured out there was something else going on and sw my ortho. I had an MRI 2 days before leaving to go on a 2 week SCUBA diving vacation. By the time I returned from vacation my shoulder was in such bad shape that I couldn't lift a glass to take a drink without severe pain. I saw the doc the day after I returned to get the MRI results- frayed biceps tendon. Initially he treated with oral steroids and rest- which didn't make any real improvement. Next step was a steroid injection into the tendon sheath- this bought me about 48 hours of relief. I was supposed to have a 3 week followup on this procedure, but since the pain came back so fast I was back in the office in 10 days- that was yesterday. The next step is surgical repair of the biceps tendon and a suspected labral tear (which will be confirmed when he gets in there).
How does a biceps tendon fray? The biceps tendon sits in a groove. As it moves, it can slip out of the groove and rub on the edges, causing fraying. In my case I suspect that this occured because I am hypermobile in every joint I can identify (my normal range of motion is hyperextension). I think that when doing the db snatch my shoulder was hyperextending enough to allow a fair amount of unnatural movement in the joint, causing the biceps tendon to slip out of the groove and rub. (FYI- I exhibited symtoms bilaterally- the right shoulder responded to oral steroids and rest- I had MRI's on both shoulders). Some individuals also have congenitally shallow grooves, which sort of "pre-disposes" them to biceps tendon fraying. The repair: I am having an arthroscopic repair. They will dissect the long head of the biceps tendon from it's attachment point, and move it to a new attachment point, thus removing it from the groove. This will not impact either the functionality or the cosmetics of the bicep. To re-attach the long head of the biceps tendon they will abrade the bone and insert suture anchors (they look like drywall anchors with sutures attached) and suture the tendon down. The shoulder will have to remain mostly immobile for 6 weeks in a sling. After that I will start physical therapy. No real lifting (or diving) for 3-4 months post op. I was a little surprised by that- I had an ACL reconstruction (allograft) 7 years ago, and was back in the water in 6 weeks. The difference here is that they want to make sure the new attachment point has healed and is solid before allowing any over head motions- if the repair detaches, the whole procedure has to be repeated. What I likely have is a SLAP tear
http://orthopedics.about.com/c s/generalshoulder/a/slap.htm In either case the biceps tenodesis will repair the problem. Becuase the SLAP tear doesn't show up well on an MRI, my surgeon won't know about Labrum involvement until he gets in there. Regardless- the biceps tenodesis procedure is indicated and has the best success rate.
My injury mechanism was different than the deadlift injury under discussion, but the repair procedure is the same regardless. My surgery is scheduled for next Wednesday, and if you guys are interested I can give updates afterwards on the recovery process.
Sorry for writing a book!
Heather
Your injury is a bit different, I believe. Biceps tears from deadlifting usually involve the distal biceps tendon at its radial (below the elbow)attachment. What you're describing sounds more like a "SLAP" (superior labrum, anterior to posterior) injury, which involves the junction of the long head of the biceps tendon and the superior aspect of the glenoid labrum.
Something your deadlifting should be way too heavy to curl. Think of the arms as dead strings, attached to the weight- bent arms when deadlifting inst fun especially if you allow 500lb to straighten them out for you.
Yeah, I haven't torn my bicep, but have hurt it before b/c of a slightly bent arm at the start of a mid 400 pull. I always make a mental note of completely straight arms prior to pulling now.
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Deadlifting and biceps tear
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