Hopes and dreams? So you are going to tell me at 22 I am 3 lbs removed from my genetic maximum LBM. ......right. If you want to put all of your eggs in one basket go ahead. One webpage that some guy with a PhD is using as an ad to sell an e book is not ten commandments of physiology,
He's got fat rolls on his belly. I have yet to see anyone at 12% or lower with fat rolls on their belly. And the second guy would not even be a figure or fitness model by today's standards. It isn't I who has the high standards, it is the way it is today.
Here is a pic of my friend who just won a few local comps. He is 6'2" and 203lb and right about 4% bf in these shots. This is the sort of standard I am accustomed to seeing around here. I still don't get where the paradigm of being 5'6" and 220lb is coming from. As near as I can tell you guys are talking about 220lb with all your fat. Not leaned down to 4% for a show.
Hopes and dreams? So you are going to tell me at 22 I am 3 lbs removed from my genetic maximum LBM. ......right. If you want to put all of your eggs in one basket go ahead. One webpage that some guy with a PhD is using as an ad to sell an e book is not ten commandments of physiology,
Casey's had that page up for a lot longer than he's been selling books.
Can you refute the data with anything besides "LOL NO WAY I DONT BUY THAT!!", or do we keep going down the path into stupidity?
Do you really imagine you have better genes than Grimek, Park, et al?
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I either have above 20% bf with abs, or that 'formula' is completley worthless.
Just looking at your avitar I would say you are very close to 20% (probably over actually). I can see my abs at 17.5% bf btw so that isn't really the end all indicator. They are not clearly defined but I can see the outline which is what I am guessing you are seeing. You should have it measured though to find out.
He's got fat rolls on his belly. I have yet to see anyone at 12% or lower with fat rolls on their belly. And the second guy would not even be a figure or fitness model by today's standards. It isn't I who has the high standards, it is the way it is today.
Here is a pic of my friend who just won a few local comps. He is 6'2" and 203lb and right about 4% bf in these shots. This is the sort of standard I am accustomed to seeing around here. I still don't get where the paradigm of being 5'6" and 220lb is coming from. As near as I can tell you guys are talking about 220lb with all your fat. Not leaned down to 4% for a show.
You can have rolls of fat at a low bf percentage, you just have to bend forward. He's probably at 12% ish.
I don't think most of us are talking about contest condition, but 8-10% lean, however people are probably thinking of different numbers, so thats why we brought up LBM.
Repost the pics please, you need to be a forum member to access them I think.
Casey's had that page up for a lot longer than he's been selling books.
Can you refute the data with anything besides "LOL NO WAY I DONT BUY THAT!!", or do we keep going down the path into stupidity?
Do you really imagine you have better genes than Grimek, Park, et al?
Do not call me stupid first off schmuck.
"Thus, although these findings must be regarded as preliminary, it appears that FFMI may represent a useful initial measure to screen for possible steroid abuse, especially in athletic, medical, or forensic situations in which individuals may attempt to deny such behavior."
yeah...preliminary findings are facts all of a sudden.
You wanna listen to Dr. Butt, be my guest, just do not insult the intelligence of others base on one mans isolated study, and another study that can only be concluded as preliminarily data.
I never claimed to have better genes than the body builders who Dr. Butt(tee hee) "claims" to have measured. Nor do I claim to have better genes than "current world champ A & B". All I said was due too my small joint structure that formula concluded that I, even with the % margin of error, came within 5-8 lbs of my genetic max before I grew chest hair.
"Thus, although these findings must be regarded as preliminary, it appears that FFMI may represent a useful initial measure to screen for possible steroid abuse, especially in athletic, medical, or forensic situations in which individuals may attempt to deny such behavior."
yeah...preliminary findings are facts all of a sudden.
When they correlate with reality, most certainly they are.
Quote:
You wanna listen to Dr. Butt, be my guest, just do not insult the intelligence of others base on one mans isolated study, and another study that can only be concluded as preliminarily data.
You don't know what "parsimony" and "preponderance of evidence" are, do you?
Quote:
I never claimed to have better genes than the body builders who Dr. Butt(tee hee) "claims" to have measured. Nor do I claim to have better genes than "current world champ A & B". All I said was due too my small joint structure that formula concluded that I, even with the % margin of error, came within 5-8 lbs of my genetic max before I grew chest hair.
Very proud of you. You still haven't refuted the data with anything more than a tantrum.
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You can have rolls of fat at a low bf percentage, you just have to bend forward. He's probably at 12% ish.
I don't think most of us are talking about contest condition, but 8-10% lean, however people are probably thinking of different numbers, so thats why we brought up LBM.
Repost the pics please, you need to be a forum member to access them I think.
Oh sorry here are the pics.
I don't know. I have a friend who is right around 15.x% and he looks a whole lot like that first guy.
I am thinking that most of you don't know what 8% to 10% bf is either. I mean know it as having been there. It just seems to me that most of the youngsters here are underestimating their bf and overestimating their LBM.
It just seems to me that most of the youngsters here are underestimating their bf and overestimating their LBM.
Haha maybe But that's just it, they are just guesses. I'm guessing I'm at around 11% but I'm not sure, maybe I am higher. I've had a bodyfat tester give me 8-9%, which I thought was way too low hah.
It just seems to me that most of the youngsters here are underestimating their bf and overestimating their LBM.
Ding ding ding ding, we have a winner.
There's a very good reason that I just get fat if I try to push above my current weight, and it's not just because I don't work for it.
With 10 years of lifting, to include some AAS use in the past, I'm pretty damn close to the genetic asymptote. My body isn't easily going to add more muscle, and it's damn sure not going to hang on to that at 10% or less.
It's a realization that will hit you after you get out of your early 20s and the idealism gets eclipsed by reality.
Some of Casey's comments in the BR thread are particularly appropriate.
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There's a very good reason that I just get fat if I try to push above my current weight, and it's not just because I don't work for it.
With 10 years of lifting, to include some AAS use in the past, I'm pretty damn close to the genetic asymptote. My body isn't easily going to add more muscle, and it's damn sure not going to hang on to that at 10% or less.
It's a realization that will hit you after you get out of your early 20s and the idealism gets eclipsed by reality.
Some of Casey's comments in the BR thread are particularly appropriate.
PowerMan I LOVE what you have to say in this thread and agree with it wholeheartedly from what I can understand of the science behind it. I am learning about my own realistic possibilities as a woman bber and watching how hard even 1lb is to keep on as I do my first cut. Before I started my cut I thought I was pretty badass too with my bulk and had overestimated how much LM I had. It is easy to do.
I just don't get why the kids on here are arguing so strongly on this subject. Your points do not negate Fullman or Waittz from becoming bbers. They could both still compete and do well even if they do not hit 200 lbs at 4% bf. This whole obsession with going to 200lb or more at less than 6' height just boggles my mind. They clearly have never done a proper cut yet.
I just don't get why the kids on here are arguing so strongly on this subject. Your points do not negate Fullman or Waittz from becoming bbers. They could both still compete and do well even if they do not hit 200 lbs at 4% bf. This whole obsession with going to 200lb or more at less than 6' height just boggles my mind. They clearly have never done a proper cut yet.
Young guys never seem to want to accept the idea of limitations. That's because they don't yet have the experience to realize the truth of things. Usually it's the guys who've trained for years who see the reality of drug-free training when they look back over their training careers.
Not wanting to drag other people's names into this, a few years ago a world champion drug-free bodybuilder mentioned to me that he hadn't made further gains in a long time and he thought he might be reaching his genetic limit. Of course, having the mentality of a champion, he contradicted himself a few moments later and said he would compete next year bigger than ever. I didn't think it was wise to tell him that statistically it was very unlikely that he'd get any bigger, so I didn't say anything other than, "You've got a great attitude." But he competed a few months ago at the same weight as last year, and not quite as sharp.
I think the main reason many people are not exactly enthusiastic about the equations in my articles is because they don't realize how good a lean physique looks with those measurements. Most people are too fat to show a good physique and don't understand how big a lean 16"-17" arm really is.
Now, I have nothing against AAS use. If it weren't for the legality issue, difficulty in obtaining them, and some undesirable side-effects, I'd still use them. I don't consider it a moral/ethical faux-pas like so many people do.
At the same time, having been on both sides of the fence and not being new to this rodeo, I really find it funny when people want to bullshit me about what's possible for a true bona-fide natural vs. a "natural".
If you want to use, use. Just don't be a bullshitter about it. If you want to stay natural, you'd best learn to accept the limitations that come along with it.
You're not all unique special snowflakes.
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I think a lot of you should go to BR and look at the 'bodyfat through pictures' thread. It might bring you all to the reality of what 10,11, and 12% bf really looks like. The difference from 10 to 12 is huge.
Casey is spot on. Its easy to be new and young and think you can keep the momentum going. The reality is you cant.
For those of you who are claiming certain bodyfat %, how did you measure it?
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Do you mean this thread? Pretty good thread, cool forum too hah, I will start visiting it often now.
Going by that I'd say I'm at 12% then, not too far from my 11% guess hah. In between 11-14% I'm pretty sure anyway, but 11-13% I think, my guess being 12%.
I used a bodyfat tester, which gives me results a few % lower than what I think I'd actually be at, so I just made guesses.
i never claimed to want to be over 200 at 4%. And my measurements are not inflated.
height 57, wrist 6.75, ankle 9. the formula says I the most lbm I can have is 165.2872
I was bf test at 193 at 15% last time I got tested.
that is 28.95 of fat. leaving me with 164.05
Giving the test its 3% margin of error it still doenst seem logical that I have reached my genetic potential. Granted, like I said I have extremely small joints but long muscle bellies. For ex I have 6.75 wrists but 12.25 forearms. While this could help me aesthetically, it throws the formula way off.
Will i ever get to 200 lbs stage ready? at 5'7"? not without a needle. I just do not feel comfortable using a UNIVERSAL algebraic formula to determine what my DNA and myostatin have me limited to.
I am not disagreeing with anything else but this formula.
I am not disagreeing with anything else but this formula.
The formula doesn't preclude outliers to it but surprisingly despite some spirited attempts it seems difficult to produce an anecdote that constitutes a significant outlier.
I may never convince you that science can inform you more about your potential than anecdotes, but you don't find the near non-existance of anecdotes discouraging?
The formula doesn't preclude outliers to it but surprisingly despite some spirited attempts it seems difficult to produce an anecdote that constitutes a significant outlier.
I may never convince you that science can inform you more about your potential than anecdotes, but you don't find the near non-existance of anecdotes discouraging?
I have no idea what you just said. But I think I am fine with it, im gunna go ahead and exit this thread before someone shows me a scientific formula that will tell me the day I die.
i never claimed to want to be over 200 at 4%. And my measurements are not inflated.
You and Fullman are both claiming to be bbers. Him in his tagline and you in starting this thread. Looking at your AVIs I see that you both have a fairly significant amount of bodyfat already. I assume that since bbing is your goal that you understand you will have to go to under 8% of bf (as a male) in order to accomplish the goal.
If all you guys care about is gaining weight and getting stronge than hell yeah 200 lbs is possible. Even I can get to 200lbs and get HOOOOOGE arms and legs, etc. As a woman I put on 10lbs in 3.5 months and it was a pretty clean 10lbs. I could easily do 20 if I wanted to do it dirty.
But let's not confuse this with body building. My friends and I call this belly building.... I see it all the time in the gym.
nick, you call me a liar, insult my intelligence and call me down constantly. You try to get a rise out of me, and sometimes in the past you have. But, no more, your not worth it.
nick, you call me a liar, insult my intelligence and call me down constantly. You try to get a rise out of me, and sometimes in the past you have. But, no more, your not worth it.
whatever intelligence that you have needs to be insulted in this thread
come the fuck on dude. shit or get off the pot. you fail to realize that you're arguing against dudes with education and data with nothing more than "You're wrong!" That's like going up to a bunch of gangbangers in a speedo and telling them to fuck off.
yet, I shouldn't expect any different. your belief system and limited experience is all you have. sure, you're strong, and that's led you to think that you know everything. If you knew how to argue your point with more than "I'm right because I know" then I wouldn't give you any crap. But this is too damn good to pass up.
(and the "your not worth it" is priceless. absolutely priceless)
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It's not a beer belly. It's a gas tank for a sex machine.
I would not be too surprised Frank if your bf is near 30%. Next time you are in the gym ask one of the trainers to do the ORMON bf test. While it isn't 100% accurate it is generally within 3% if you are properly hydrated.
But for you, this is an okay thing. PLers are often at or over 30%. Fat and Strong is where it is at as a PLer.
But that's just it, they are just guesses. I'm guessing I'm at around 11% but I'm not sure, maybe I am higher. I've had a bodyfat tester give me 8-9%, which I thought was way too low hah.
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