i just eat. strongman stuff boosts your metabolism so much that you're hungry all the time, and it's a pain just to keep your weight in a certain category. I figure as long as i'm getting stronger, i'm probably building SOME muscle too. Of course, this is greatly different than BBing.
But i do agree that your body can only make a certain amount of muscle at a time. If it couldn't we'd all be monsters. I don't know how they determined it was 2lbs though?
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i just eat. strongman stuff boosts your metabolism so much that you're hungry all the time, and it's a pain just to keep your weight in a certain category. I figure as long as i'm getting stronger, i'm probably building SOME muscle too. Of course, this is greatly different than BBing.
But i do agree that your body can only make a certain amount of muscle at a time. If it couldn't we'd all be monsters. I don't know how they determined it was 2lbs though?
It's all BS theory so they can market. Muscle doesn't gain in a linear fashion either, it happens in spurts.
fuleman that is not the point. NOBODY can gain that much LM that fast naturally, and the more you do, the harder it becomes. You could eat till you shit butter and your body still cannot build new tissue and repair its old tissue any faster. For the aver BBer to get from 200 lean to 240 lean takes years, even on gear. anyone tells you different they are blowing smoke up your ass. The argument is not how to get from 200 to 250 the fastest, its how to get to 250 lean successfully. And if you think it is so easy, why are you not over 200 lbs yet? by your own logic you will be 230 by next year.
X went from 220 to 270 in two years and gained BF. Also, X is a doctor, not a traier, nor a nutritionist. X is also closer to 20 pervent bf than he his 10. X also says deadlifts are worthless.
im done, fuleman you really get on my nerves, who made you an authority on anything. Its one thing for someone who actually knows what they are talking about to tell me im wrong, but its a whole other story for someone who is smaller and weaker to tell me how to gain weight. Why dont you actually get up to 200 lbs and then tell someone how to do it.
fuleman that is not the point. NOBODY can gain that much LM that fast naturally, and the more you do, the harder it becomes. You could eat till you shit butter and your body still cannot build new tissue and repair its old tissue any faster. For the aver BBer to get from 200 lean to 240 lean takes years, even on gear.
Exactly, so it would take even more years (years that are precious) to do that without gear and a clean bulk.
by your own logic you will be 230 by next year.[/quote]
dont waste your breath saying anything intellegent simon. If someone cannot grasp the concept of your body can only build X amount of muscle a week in optimal conditions, they think eating enough calories for X+1000 will somehow force protein synthesis to happen faster.
I do agree with you on this, if you are gaining muscle at your optimal rate, and getting the right amount of calories, any more calories will just be put into fat. Doing things right mean little fat gain at all.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fulmen
I did the same thing from 130. Going from 130 to 180 is easier than going from 200 to 250.
You never hear anyone thats 200+ lbs making a 50 or up lb gain on a clean bulk. Hell, if people want to spend two or more years doing that, then to each his own.
Yeah I saw that coming, but you didn't specify any ranges to gain that 50lbs in
Also, not many people get from 200-250(and not be a fatass) at all, no matter how they do it. But I think 250 might be around the limit of amount of muscle that some people can have, depending on your height and genetics ofcourse. But 220lbs(230lbs off season) class is as big as I'll want to get, and much bigger than that and I won't be able to maintain leanness, even if I do a dirty bulk and cut down, cutting down would still have me nowhere near 250!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alcoholiday
i just eat. strongman stuff boosts your metabolism so much that you're hungry all the time, and it's a pain just to keep your weight in a certain category. I figure as long as i'm getting stronger, i'm probably building SOME muscle too. Of course, this is greatly different than BBing.
But i do agree that your body can only make a certain amount of muscle at a time. If it couldn't we'd all be monsters. I don't know how they determined it was 2lbs though?
Ya I just train, and eat when I'm hungry hah, I'm too lazy to really be eating "alot", but pretty much I just go with the flow haha. And I'm gaining muscle with strength slowly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fulmen
Professor X, since you use T-Nation so much. Tell him Fulmen sent you.
X went from 220 to 270 in two years and gained BF. Also, X is a doctor, not a traier, nor a nutritionist. X is also closer to 20 pervent bf than he his 10. X also says deadlifts are worthless.
He's never said that. He said, and as well as other guys like Tiri, GS, RJ, myself and Co., that deadlifts are not needed, especially if you run a risk of injury with them. You can easily replace them with other exercises.
im done, fuleman you really get on my nerves, who made you an authority on anything. Its one thing for someone who actually knows what they are talking about to tell me im wrong, but its a whole other story for someone who is smaller and weaker to tell me how to gain weight. Why dont you actually get up to 200 lbs and then tell someone how to do it.
Don't take it personal, and I don't try to act like an authority. Hell, that's why I post my weight and picture so you can decide to listen to me or not.
fuleman that is not the point. NOBODY can gain that much LM that fast naturally, and the more you do, the harder it becomes. You could eat till you shit butter and your body still cannot build new tissue and repair its old tissue any faster. For the aver BBer to get from 200 lean to 240 lean takes years, even on gear. anyone tells you different they are blowing smoke up your ass. The argument is not how to get from 200 to 250 the fastest, its how to get to 250 lean successfully. And if you think it is so easy, why are you not over 200 lbs yet? by your own logic you will be 230 by next year.
Couldn't have said it better myself, no matter how you do it, 200-250 LEAN is very difficult to do, and not many achieve that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Waittz
X went from 220 to 270 in two years and gained BF. Also, X is a doctor, not a traier, nor a nutritionist. X is also closer to 20 pervent bf than he his 10. X also says deadlifts are worthless.
LOL
Quote:
Originally Posted by Waittz
im done, fuleman you really get on my nerves, who made you an authority on anything. Its one thing for someone who actually knows what they are talking about to tell me im wrong, but its a whole other story for someone who is smaller and weaker to tell me how to gain weight. Why dont you actually get up to 200 lbs and then tell someone how to do it.
While I agree with you, bit harsh dude!
Not that it matters in this case, good job at not getting pissed off by Fulmen hah!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fulmen
Exactly, so it would take even more years (years that are precious) to do that without gear and a clean bulk.
by your own logic you will be 230 by next year.
That sounds like a good goal.[/quote]
Haha, you mean 230lbs LEAN???
I do agree with you on this, if you are gaining muscle at your optimal rate, and getting the right amount of calories, any more calories will just be put into fat. Doing things right mean little fat gain at all.
For the second time, I am not recommending a dirt bulk. Maybe my definition of "little fat" is different from everyone elses. Why the hell would I eat more than I need so I can gain more fat? I already said I'm cutting back calories because of some unwanted extra fat gain.
For the second time, I am not recommending a dirt bulk. Maybe my definition of "little fat" is different from everyone elses. Why the hell would I eat more than I need so I can gain more fat? I already said I'm cutting back calories because of some unwanted extra fat gain.
Simon, we should lift together some day, man.
I think your definition of "little fat" is just higher than ours, and your willing to accept more, maybe thats just it... But I think 18-20% is way too much, keeping under 15% is the way to go.
Lift together? hah sounds good, maybe I'll take a break from PL and come to little rock and train like a bodybuilder for a month hahahahhha Seriously though. that would be pretty hard to do though hah, by the time I could afford that, or you(your also a poor young guy right?), we'll both be deadlifting 650 hah!
I think your definition of "little fat" is just higher than ours, and your willing to accept more, maybe thats just it..
Quote:
Lift together? hah sounds good, maybe I'll take a break from PL and come to little rock and train like a bodybuilder for a month hahahahhha Seriously though. that would be pretty hard to do though hah, by the time I could afford that, or you(your also a poor young guy right?), we'll both be deadlifting 650 hah!
My starting weight was 125ish, maybe 130 lbs. I stayed <170 for quite a few years (poor diet, more interested in partying, etc) before finally force-feeding myself up to just under 200. Got fat.
Stayed fat, fed myself up to an all-time high of 220-225 (with "help").
Currently still fat, weighing around 205.
Point being: I'm 5'9. I can estimate I have around 170 lbs of LBM, and even worse, it's very, very hard for me to improve on that now (even with drugs).
What would be the point of me force-feeding myself up to 240-250? I might gain another 5-10 lbs of LBM if I'm lucky, but that means 30-40lbs of fat that has to come off. And it's not that easy on the way down, even with chemical help. Odds are I'd just lose the LBM I've gained in the first place.
There's a genetic ceiling, like it or not. Average-height guys arent' going to be carrying over 180-200 lbs of LBM without drugs.
My starting weight was 125ish, maybe 130 lbs. I stayed <170 for quite a few years (poor diet, more interested in partying, etc) before finally force-feeding myself up to just under 200. Got fat.
Stayed fat, fed myself up to an all-time high of 220-225 (with "help").
Currently still fat, weighing around 205.
Point being: I'm 5'9. I can estimate I have around 170 lbs of LBM, and even worse, it's very, very hard for me to improve on that now (even with drugs).
What would be the point of me force-feeding myself up to 240-250? I might gain another 5-10 lbs of LBM if I'm lucky, but that means 30-40lbs of fat that has to come off. And it's not that easy on the way down, even with chemical help. Odds are I'd just lose the LBM I've gained in the first place.
There's a genetic ceiling, like it or not. Average-height guys arent' going to be carrying over 180-200 lbs of LBM without drugs.
I'm 5'9 so 1.75m, ~93kg (205lbs), and I'll be nice and say I'm 18% so ~76kg (168lbs) of LBM
FFMI = 24.9
Normalized FFMI = 25.2
So going by those results, I'm not getting any bigger, not w/o gaining fat or getting back on some goodies.
While it's hard to conclusively narrow it down that precisely, it's a good guideline to think about when you're imagining yourself at 180-200 lbs of LBM (or god help you more than that) without drugs.
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Well it wouldn't hurt to have more eyes on it. If you cannot find competent help locally try posting some pics. Maybe not here as there are not a lot of bber types but on a more approptiate bbing forum. Certainly you can do most of the stuff yourself but you will need some help refining and getting the posing down and that sort of thing I would guess.
Using somebody's picture, who is a great natural pro, that supports the others observations of a natural's limit to lean muscle mass probably wasn't what you where looking for.
where did i ever say anything about limits of natural lean body mass? It probally is about 200lbs..
Who cares, Frank. Let them think it's impossible. People like George Hackenschmidt, Arthur Saxon are impossible, who lived before steroids. And they were average height.
People like Paul Anderson and Stanislaus Zbyszkohad to have had at least 210lbs of lbm at an average height, but who cares so long that you have science papers.
where did i ever say anything about limits of natural lean body mass? It probally is about 200lbs..
dont let studies about lbm short change yourself. There are some big natural bb'ers out there:
Big and under 200lbs in competition...
Quote:
Who cares, Frank. Let them think it's impossible. People like George Hackenschmidt, Arthur Saxon are impossible, who lived before steroids. And they were average height.
Excellent, mention a 220lb fatty and a 200lb man for an example of hooogeness...
Quote:
People like Paul Anderson and Stanislaus Zbyszkohad to have had at least 210lbs of lbm at an average height, but who cares so long that you have science papers.
One of the great way to achieve gaining more lean mass (not always muscle...) is getting as fat as a house. Which Anderson achieved to the max.
But by all means, keep believing in the fairy tails, and one day, you too will go to the ball and become a pretty princess.
Clearly fat-asses. Hackenschmidt usually stayed around 220, and Saxon stayed around 200-220. As much as everyone will disagree, I still think it's possible to be 200+ and lean.
Why the hell would I eat more than I need so I can gain more fat? I already said I'm cutting back calories because of some unwanted extra fat gain.
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