experience with sheiko?

[igunick]

Does anyone has any experience with Sheiko?

I thought of doing it for some variation on my normal UB/LB splits. I only started today but honestly, I think it's kind of lame. The given percentages are way too low imo. The whole workout looks like a DE workout.
So I don't know if I'll get something out of it after the 4 weeks.
So anyone?

Thx

[PowerManDL]

I hope cycomiko will chime in here, he's used Sheiko the last few months and has liked it.

I've got a lighter program I'm going to start soon, once I get settled in Down Unda. The routine I'm doing now is similar.

All I can say is, don't let the lower %s fool you. Do a ton of volume like that for long enough and you'll start to feel it as it adds up.

It's a different kind of beat-up from high-intensity work, but don't underestimate it.

[GqArtguy]

Originally Posted by PowerManDL

All I can say is, don't let the lower %s fool you. Do a ton of volume like that for long enough and you'll start to feel it as it adds up.

Werd. In OL, we dont go to maxes all that often but we're living the 70-85% zone most of the time. Anyone who's used to squatting once a week cant keep up when you start squatting 3-5 days a week much less at 80%.

[Alcoholiday]

Originally Posted by GqArtguy

Werd. In OL, we dont go to maxes all that often but we're living the 70-85% zone most of the time. Anyone who's used to squatting once a week cant keep up when you start squatting 3-5 days a week much less at 80%.

werd

[igunick]

Originally Posted by PowerManDL

All I can say is, don't let the lower %s fool you. Do a ton of volume like that for long enough and you'll start to feel it as it adds up.

It's a different kind of beat-up from high-intensity work, but don't underestimate it.

I'm not really underestimating it, I just have my doubts about some things. Those weighted pushups and flies for example, fine if you want a 'pump' during you workout but not really for strength gaining purposes imo.

Oh well, I'm still gonna stick to the first 4 weeks and we'll let the results speak for themselfs. I just wanted some feedback since I don't now anyone who had done the program before.

[daraz]

Most of the assistance work is not intended to make you strong, but rather to keep you healthy. I've been doing light, high-rep flies ever since my short stint with Sheiko programs. My shoulders don't feel beat up at all since then.

I don't know why it works though... I guess they stretch your shoulders out or something.

[GqArtguy]

Originally Posted by daraz

Most of the assistance work is not intended to make you strong, but rather to keep you healthy. I've been doing light, high-rep flies ever since my short stint with Sheiko programs. My shoulders don't feel beat up at all since then.

Right. You 'gain' from the fact that youre taking a lift and doing a marathon with it. You grease the groove like a mutherfucker and the intensity/volume is such that you will get bigger if youre eating for it.

Look at the smolov program, all you do is squat but anyone who goes through it is going to make a nice PR out of it in the end.

[Frank.S]

your technique gets very good with that much work in the core lifts. After smolov my squat form was quite improved.

ive read lots into sheiko and may do a cycle of it after my next meet. It seems like the people getting the best gains from it are doing it how it was designed (big surprise hah.) what i mean is, they do the prep phase, then the contest phase.. just doing one or the other will not yeild the same results from what i understand.

[cycomiko]

I will start with a rant.

Much like Westside is not one specific program, Boris Sheiko's setups are not hard and fast programs. The basic programming comes from the Russian strength researchers of years ago, as well as milking information from a range of other sources, including western coaches/athletes. he also has a large pool of athletes from which he compiles data.

He has a number of templates, some of which are shown on Eric T's log at elitefts, but pretty much they range from dead noob, to novice, intermediate, advanced, superhero and 'makesthehulklooklikeapussy'

Three days per week, up to 5-6 days per week, plus 2x daily in some instances.

A lot of Sheikos work is about creating habits, or in simple terms, practice makes perfect. With the programming, he certainly does a whole heap of practice. In order to accomodate this routine practice, the intensity is lower, however, with the accumulation of fatigue, the technique will ultimately reresent what is done with a 1rm (from a research POV, in the case of bench at least, fatigued reps are similar to a 1rm, in that the body is altering the groove to achieve the desired completion of the rep).

In terms of the weights not looking like much.

Sure, 80% for six sets of three looks pretty simple. The first day feels pretty simple. Accumulating fatigue makes it not so simple. Which si why the programming includes low volume weeks, to bring back the desired benefit.

To reference Sheikos book, where he quotes the researcher Medvedev

“It is widelyknown that the contemporary achievements are impossible without the application of large loads. But they give effect only in the case when they alternate with the small and the averages, creating thereby of condition for the superrestoration of organism after large loads. Medium loads support fitness for work at the specific level, and the light loads, utilized after large and averages, contribute to restoration, considerably increase the fitness for work of the organism of athlete during the trainings ".

Many of the trainer of heavy athletics consider that the optimum (basic) training weight is within the limits of 75 85% from the maximum result in the exercise ( n. I. [Luchkin], a. N. [Vorobev], [A].[S]. Medvedev and other).

He goes on to give his own data

Analyzing training loads during the period from 1991 through 1999 of the champions of the peace: Aleksey [Sivokonya], hopes worlds, Sergey Moore, Maxim [Podtynnogo] and Irina [Abramovoy], I came to the conclusion that the greatest effect in increase in the force the average monthly loads with a relative intensity of average 71+ 2% of the maximum results in the competing exercises give. Young of trainer can think that it is necessary simply to train athletes on 70% weights and they will add in the results. This is erroneous opinion, not necessary to forget that here enter both the kneading weights and the maximum
weights.

(Translation is poor)

My own experiences:

I hve done a few rounds of sheiko CMS/MS setup. two including squat and deadlift, but mainly focussed on bench. I dropped the otehr two not because the program was too hard, but because my body is not hard enough (long term spinal injury from motorcycles allows me to train, just not that frequently - even westside style volumes can mess it up), muscular wise I adapted to the volume very quickly, inspite of not performing anywhere near the required work prior.

I tested my bench prior, and as of last cycle I havent gained a lot. Well. I tested prior to starting, and achieved an unpaused, stupidly out of the groove, utterly impossible movement. Since then I have started pausing each rep, and the technique on 1rm's has improved, with my last test hitting approximately 7.5% higher, and it wasnt a complete maximum, as I had a URTI and felt off, but I take whatever PR i can get. I also had an injury on my first cycle, but that was due to lifting off heavy (banded) weights from a normal bench, which tweaked my upper pec, meaning I had to deload slightly for a few weeks.

Instead of doing full range work all of the the time, i use boards, floor presses and similar. I bench 4x per week, and since I cannot workout on weekends, I bench Mon, Tues, Thurs, Fri.

When I was doing the whole thing, i would squat monday and thursday, and deadlift tuesday and friday.

Its definately not a walk in the park, even just doing the bench section of the CMS/MS program, it is hard work.

To show the extremes, here goes the bench portion of a world champions program, she (yes, a girl) also performs deadlift and squat work, but I haven't put that into a spreadsheet)

This is week one (medium high volume) of a four week prepatory phase

Originally Posted by week 1

Day 1 MORNING
Bench: 5x1x50, 4x1x60, 3x2x70, 2x5x75
Second bench: 5x1x50, 5x1x60, 4x5x70
Chest Muscles: 10x5

Day 1 EVENING
Bench: 5x1x50, 4x1x60, 3x2x70, 2x5x80
Chest Muscles: 10x4

Day 2
Bench: 5x1x55, 4x2x65, 3x5x75
Dips: 6x5

Day 3 MORNING
Bench: 5x1x50, 4x1x60, 3x2x70, 2x5x80
SecondBench:5x1x50, 5x1x60, 4x5x70
Chest Muscles: 10x5

Day 3 EVENING
Bench: 5x1x50, 5x1x60, 3x2x70, 3x2x75, 2x2x80, 3x2x75, 4x1x70, 5x1x65, 6x1x60, 8x1x50
Chest Muscles: 10x5

Day 5 MORNING
Bench: 5x1x50, 4x1x60, 3x2x70, 2x6x80
Dips: 5x5

Day 5 EVENING
Bench: 5x1x50, 4x1x60, 3x2x70, 3x5x80
Second Bench: 5x1x55, 4x1x65, 3x5x75
Chest Muscles: 10x5

Day 6
Bench: 5x1x50, 5x1x60, 5x5x70
Chest Muscles: 10x5

[cycomiko]

Originally Posted by Frank.S

that i mean is, they do the prep phase, then the contest phase.. just doing one or the other will not yeild the same results from what i understand.

in theory, the prepatory phases can be linked to one anotehr, as that is the major area you are gaining the fitness of interest. The peaking phase allows you to come out of the fatigued state and work up to a maximinal load, but not really become any stronger.

So the peaking is best left to competitions.