Offers from our Fitness ExpertsAs the title states, we have a lot of experts who contribute here. Only JP-approved experts can create threads in here, so you can trust that if someone is making an offer in here (free or not) it's going to pass the muster.
Circuit training is a hot topic in the fitness industry. Many fitness and internet gurus promote circuit training as the best all around fitness training method to maximize all around fitness with one workout. There are companies who have devoted all of their business efforts into spreading the gospel of circuit training. Needless to say, this information is incorrect and represents BS at it's highest level. Circuit training is not a new concept. It's origins date back to the early 1950s.
M Siff (2000 Supertraining) said the following regarding circuit
training:
"It should always be remembered that all forms of circuit training are largely suited to the average non-athlete or competitive athlete during the early preparatory phase of training. The constant progression in a circuit from one exercise to another without completeing all sets with one exercise to prescribed maximum number of repetitions before moving to the next exercise does not permit one to adequately develop the different types of sport specific strength. Even with interval circuit training on machines, it is not possible to train with the medium heavy, near maximal or explosive loading which is necessary to develop qualities such as muscle hypertrophy, speed-strength, strength-speed, static strength, flexibility-strength, explosive
strength, and acceleration strength. The length of the interval between successive sets of the same exercise depends on the number of stations in the circuit, so the larger the circuit, the less its ability to significantly develop any of the major sport-specific strength-related qualities."
Additional information is offered concerning the matter in my book Knowledge and Nonsense.
Wrong. Cooch Glasshole invented burpees and kipping pullups - just ask him.
__________________
Working "hard," or the perception of working hard, doesn't really mean anything. Sweating, vomiting, and breathing hard could be a good workout or a tropical disease kicking in.-Dan John
I think you will find that you can input ANY type of training mode in your statement and it will apply:
_____________________ has its role...but!
I really haven't found that there is an absolute type of training. At least not for the clients I tend to train. And I don't think there needs to be an absolute type of training or exercise program. There is always going to be a "...but". Look at all the questions that are asked regarding NROL or any program for that matter:
"Is it ok if I substitute exercise A for this exercise...?"
The answer is always 90% of the time....go ahead. With respect to Mel Siff, his statements were made 8 years ago, way before crossfit came onto the scene. I think Crossfit has its place in training---I don't believe it is the end all, be all, because it really relies on the instruction given and the receipents of that instruction.
Jamie, not sure what your point is, but CF isn't simply circuit training. And even if it was, who cares whether or not it's new? It obviously appeals to a very large number of people who feel they're benefiting from it.
Additionally, CF is exposing many people to Olympic lifts, gymnastics skills, and other concepts that are very worthwhile.
I admire and respect the late Dr. Siff, but it's easy (and intellectually lazy) to criticize every new successful fitness trend by pointing out that "it's nothing new."
Quote:
Originally Posted by coach hale
Circuit training is a hot topic in the fitness industry. Many fitness and internet gurus promote circuit training as the best all around fitness training method to maximize all around fitness with one workout. There are companies who have devoted all of their business efforts into spreading the gospel of circuit training. Needless to say, this information is incorrect and represents BS at it?s highest level. Circuit training is not a new concept. It?s origins date back to the early 1950s.
M Siff (2000 Supertraining) said the following regarding circuit
training:
"It should always be remembered that all forms of circuit training are largely suited to the average non-athlete or competitive athlete during the early preparatory phase of training. The constant progression in a circuit from one exercise to another without completeing all sets with one exercise to prescribed maximum number of repetitions before moving to the next exercise does not permit one to adequately develop the different types of sport specific strength. Even with interval circuit training on machines, it is not possible to train with the medium heavy, near maximal or explosive loading which is necessary to develop qualities such as muscle hypertrophy, speed-strength, strength-speed, static strength, flexibility-strength, explosive
strength, and acceleration strength. The length of the interval between successive sets of the same exercise depends on the number of stations in the circuit, so the larger the circuit, the less its ability to significantly develop any of the major sport-specific strength-related qualities."
Additional information is offered concerning the matter in my book Knowledge and Nonsense.
Cool stuff man! I think if someone started with interval trainings in this fashion, eventually you'd want to move more towards power or more towards endurance etc.. so as not to plateau, and then go back to it.
But is CF really exposing people to Olympic lifting and gymnastic skills? Realistically from what I have observed, the people who do well with the Olympic lifts and gymnastic skills going into Crossfit were already proficient with those skills.
My issue with Crossfit is the lack of instruction and the lack of experience with instructors. Also the relentless marketing that CF is the end all, be all of training. I know this varies from location to location, but it gets old quick.
As far as the experience with "trainers" at locations....I love the Olympic lifts but to be honest I suck at them, so I outsource to qualified coaches and competitors to teach my athletes the finer points. I don't try to teach them out of fear that I will screw them up. 9 out of 10 CFs use form that makes my ass crawl.
I am all about getting people to GTFU (get the F up) and move more and to attempt to get fit, but IMO CF is not the starting point. and really...there are better ways to go about training than to throw everything and the kitchen sink into it.
Hey give yourself more credit! O-lifts aren't difficult to learn at all, and you don't have to have elite-level technique to benefit from them
Quote:
Originally Posted by perrogrande007
I love the Olympic lifts but to be honest I suck at them, so I outsource to qualified coaches and competitors to teach my athletes the finer points. I don't try to teach them out of fear that I will screw them up.
__________________
Charles Staley, B.Sc., MSS The Relentless Pursuit Of New Personal Records™ http://Www.CharlesStaley.com
800-519-2492
"It could be that the purpose of your life is only to serve as a warning to others."
Coach Hale, I'm not following your post. Your subject line relates to CF, then your post itself is about circuit training. Do you realize they are not the same thing?
Hey give yourself more credit! O-lifts aren't difficult to learn at all, and you don't have to have elite-level technique to benefit from them
Coach Staley, I understand that I do not have to have elite-level technique to benefit from the Oly lifts, but I have always had the mindset that I would not teach techniques that I did not have a full understanding of. Not that I feel that I need to be master of the lift, but I want to be able to perform the lift 100% correctly, and then expect 90% of that level from my athletes.
Jamie, not sure what your point is, but CF isn't simply circuit training. And even if it was, who cares whether or not it's new? It obviously appeals to a very large number of people who feel they're benefiting from it.
Additionally, CF is exposing many people to Olympic lifts, gymnastics skills, and other concepts that are very worthwhile.
I admire and respect the late Dr. Siff, but it's easy (and intellectually lazy) to criticize every new successful fitness trend by pointing out that "it's nothing new."
It is not the Olympic lifts that is the problem as I believe almost everyone can benefit from them. Rather it's their application. First the technique then second the fatigued state which they are performed and often with higher than optimal rep ranges (we both know why you should not perform high rep Olympic lifts).
Why would the average person (this is who they claim to appeal to) what to perform gymnastics? Research has shown including research from McGill that gymnasts have the worst spines. With my experience the "average" client walking in the door already has a number of pre-exposed spinal conditions, maybe not severe but enough then when exposed to some of the gymnastics techniques that crossfit perform will "break the bank".
Then there is the concern of patten overload and muscle imbalances. I have been recording the past 3 months of WOD from the crossfit site which is concidered the offical WOD. They are huge problems with their programming. I am putting this all together along with some other interesting peices of data that will bring out the truth about crossfit and their unsafe practices.
There are far safer and effective ways to attain the result they are looking for.
Sure Crossfit is a form of circuit training. I can't understand why anyone would think otherwise.
Charles, my point is CF is not magic and does not live up to the extraordinary claims often pimped by it's followers. There is nothing wrong with performing CF workouts if that is what you want to do. If you are interested in learning the Olfits and maximizing the benefits of shock method training (often called plyos) CF is not the way to go. Movements that require moderate to high levels of skill should not be learned while in the fatigued state. When you say O-lifts are not difficult to learn at all what are you using for a reference point? Surely not the typical weight training movements most trainees perform. In my opinion I have not seen a weight training movement more difficult to learn or teach than the clean and jerk or snatch. Not many people can walk in off the street and perform a clean & jerk or snatch with good technique after a few minutes instruction. Now to make the situation even more difficult have the person try to do a full snatch while fatigued. Not happening. I would agree that gymnastics and Olifts have benefits when taught properly. The majority of Crossfitters that I have seen try to perfrom the O-lifts have no idea how to perform the movements. Generally, Crossfit Olifting is about as close to Olifting as Tae-Bo is to Kickboxing.
Up to this point John has made the best point in the thread. "I really haven't found that there is an absolute type of training. At least not for the clients I tend to train. And I don't think there needs to be an absolute type of training or exercise program. There is always going to be a "...but".
Having just starting learning o-lifts, I have to also agree that they are ANYTHING but easy!! My coach spends so much time on technique with me....over and over again. Prior to my formal training, I *thought* I was doing power cleans correctly. Wrong. Basically, everything I was doing was wrong! I would say that learning o-lifts is the hardest thing I have tried to learn. And, I think that anyone who just gets a few minutes of training or reads about it in a book would never be able to execute an olift properly. At least that's certainly been my eye-opening experience.
ETA: With the above being said, I was going to check out a local crossfit class and now I am wondering if I should! I may be the only one there really concentrating on form and technique during any of the olifts!
Generally, Crossfit Olifting is about as close to Olifting as Tae-Bo is to Kickboxing.
Spot on there Jamie.
There are some good ideas embedded in some Crossfit workouts, but the WODs up on the site do not make logical programming.
It's the kool-aid drinkers and Glassman's stupid claims of world class athletes succeeding because of Crossfit (hasn't named one yet that got there through Xfit), 700lb DLs (yet to be documented) that get them in trouble.
Anyone interested in this style would be much better off (IMO) checking out Jon Hind's workouts at Monkey Bar gym, the Mtn Athlete site, or Twight's Gym Jones.
__________________
Working "hard," or the perception of working hard, doesn't really mean anything. Sweating, vomiting, and breathing hard could be a good workout or a tropical disease kicking in.-Dan John
Just my $0.02 if it's worth anything...
I was a gymnast. Yes I have had back issues since those days.
CrossFit caught my eye a while back and I thought it looked cool because of the INTENSITY. Then I began watching vids of the workouts and I was apalled because of a prevalence of crappy form and scary repetitive overhead lifts done by fatigued people. I think the appeal to most is the "in your face" and "i'm tougher than you" mentality. I like the "grassroots" approach, as I detest "big box" gyms. I respect the hard work involved and I like the group factor. I just can't seem to get past a few things. And how in the hell are repeated super-high box jumps with crappy form (and HARD landings) considered a good thing for most people? And where's the mobility training?
I realized I ventured off the mark a bit, but...
__________________ "If you love what you do, you'll never have to work a day in your life." Visit my blog:"Outside the Box" Training!
....... Anyone interested in this style would be much better off (IMO) checking out Jon Hind's workouts at Monkey Bar gym, the Mtn Athlete site, or Twight's Gym Jones.
Seconded.
(Hey Kuri, s'up? Cold and snowy here in Madtown, yer not missin' anything)
Having just starting learning o-lifts, I have to also agree that they are ANYTHING but easy!! My coach spends so much time on technique with me....over and over again. Prior to my formal training, I *thought* I was doing power cleans correctly. Wrong. Basically, everything I was doing was wrong! I would say that learning o-lifts is the hardest thing I have tried to learn. And, I think that anyone who just gets a few minutes of training or reads about it in a book would never be able to execute an olift properly. At least that's certainly been my eye-opening experience.
Jane, I could have written the exact same words.. I'm 10 weeks into learning O-lifts and am not even close to doing even 1 good one!
Just saw the vid.. oh my.. it's hilarious and scary at the same time.. the poor woman could have gotten seriously hurt..
That vid has been making the rounds the past coupla weeks. I think she works at Core Performance.
Quote:
Originally Posted by spankdat
Seconded.
(Hey Kuri, s'up? Cold and snowy here in Madtown, yer not missin' anything)
Doing good man, can't complain. Have you been to the Monkey Bar lately? If so tell Jon and Dave (Judo) hi from Chris B.
I'm missing some Spotted Cow. Though I did procure some Leine's Sunset Wheat last week.
All fitness talk should eventually turn into a discussion about beer. At least that's what I learned from Alan at the last Summit.
__________________
Working "hard," or the perception of working hard, doesn't really mean anything. Sweating, vomiting, and breathing hard could be a good workout or a tropical disease kicking in.-Dan John
I think that girl in the video is trying to look like that.....like it's a spoof. You can tell she is making herself do bad form and everything is so exaggerated.
jane, I think you are absolutely right. I really think that core performance is a great site, and if she works there, it would make sense that she was making fun of how some people do crossfit. and how some crossfit trainers encourage bad form.
the girl in the vid is most definitely spoofing crossfit.
Will has some good points - crossfit does serve its purpose and the main "positive" I can see for it is that it gets a lot of people into a "routine", even though there really isn't a routine with the programming. It gets people moving, focusing on their health, and feeling good about themselves.
I would just have a problem doing CF workouts b/c i'm such a stickler for form...i'd be trying to "grind out" thruster reps smoothly while everyone else was bouncing around and doin' half-reps for the sake of doin' as many as possible.
I've gotten into kettlebell lifting BIG time and I feel there is a similar problem goin' on with it...people are gettin' hooked on kettlebell training and have gotten awesome results, and this leads them to want to share this with other people. They get certified, yadda yadda. All of a sudden there are tons of "kettlebell instructors" out there...just like all of a sudden there's a ton of Crossfit instructors.
Quite frankly, I feel there's a ton of crappy instructors period. There's no regulation in our industry. People are taking steps to deal with this, so that's a good thing, but until then all we can do is do OUR best and try to educate others...and remind the crappy instructors to carry liability insurance!
__________________ "If you love what you do, you'll never have to work a day in your life." Visit my blog:"Outside the Box" Training!
Crossfit has it's role but!
Linear Mode
