I haven't followed the link to that article but...
There was an interesting show on Discovery (or one of those channels) that went through several of the arguments of the conspiracy theorists about things that don't make sense to them about the moon landing. Off the top of my head, those were:
1. The pictures were too good.
2. The shadows should be parallel.
3. The astronauts would have been killed by cosmic radiation.
4. You can't move in a vacuum.
There were a few others that I can't remember. But the show went through and answered all of those questions in a way that was at least satisfactory to me.
Someone investigating new craters found evidence of the Apollo 15 touchdown site.
Personally, I don't think it was faked. There would simply have been too many people involved in the cover up and would have had to kept the secret too long for that to have been the case.
^Good luck finding anything of ours in space with a simple telescope.
This wouldn't be the only time the American government has taken part in a hoax.
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Oh yea, and the Holocaust never happened, either. Give me a break!
Umm.. ??
The Holocaust had millions of witnesses, who were physically there at the scene(s). Not to mention easily accessible evidence.
The moon landing everyone watched on tv, and it's not like you can walk out there and take a look at the site.
Totally different.
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^Good luck finding anything of ours in space with a simple telescope.
This wouldn't be the only time the American government has taken part in a hoax.
Umm.. ??
The Holocaust had millions of witnesses, who were physically there at the scene(s). Not to mention easily accessible evidence.
The moon landing everyone watched on tv, and it's not like you can walk out there and take a look at the site.
Totally different.
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Dick Hoagland (former NASA consultant who was fired after he started making some pretty wild claims, like the face on Mars) claims that the reason the government only stopped showing footage but that they had been going back all along because they discovered ruins of ancient alien moon bases.
I'm not denying it took place, Beach head, I'm just having fun with an old conspiracy theory. I believe that we went, just as the footage shows.
Want to talk about some crazy conspiracy theories... What about Roswell? That one has a few things about it that make you go, "huh?"
I was 6, that summer.
If the moon landing was a hoax, my parents owe me...
They made us get out of the pool to go in the house and sit and watch some grainy black and white footage on the TV set.
Everyone was all excited and all I kept thinking was "they made me get out of the pool, for this? WTF!??"
^Good luck finding anything of ours in space with a simple telescope.
This wouldn't be the only time the American government has taken part in a hoax.
Umm.. ??
The Holocaust had millions of witnesses, who were physically there at the scene(s). Not to mention easily accessible evidence.
The moon landing everyone watched on tv, and it's not like you can walk out there and take a look at the site.
Totally different.
And the moon landing had as its witness, our archenemy, the Soviet Union, which had at its disposal some pretty sophisticated equipment for the day including very powerful optical and radio telescopes. The transmissions from the moon could easily have been debunked based on simple triangulation from two soviet radiotelescopes. I am more than certain that they were not willing to be a part of a conspiracy and even more certain that they would have been happy to report our achievement as a hoax.
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Here is a group that's thoroughly convinced the moon landing was a complete fabrication. Look at all the "science" backing up their views!
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We sure spent a shit-ton of money on Saturn V rockets and lander equipment that, by spec, was able to make the trip.
It'd be like spending 10 years and billions of dollars on a plane, flying it around the world, then having somebody say that a well-publicized trip from New York to LA never happened.
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Not actually on topic, but in one of my MBA classes a few weeks ago we got to meet with the program manager for NASA's Ares project. Ares I and Ares V are the replacements for the Space Shuttle. One huge benefit to living in Huntsville is it's connection to NASA.
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Lack of political will, mainly. When the Saturn V rockets were phased out, the US lost heavy-lift capacity. The space shuttle project took priority in the late 70s, and that thing can't remotely get to the moon.
Basically nobody's cared enough to make it happen. The Ares project that Charger is talking about will be the first time we've had a rocket available to make the trip since the early 70s.
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People are asking why not go to the moon again now?
1. It's costly
2. There is no good return on it.
Devil's advocate:
1. we have more money. Response: see #2 above.
2. We can use it to build habitats. Reponse: we have orbital habitats.
3. We can use it to stage to Mars. Response: in terms of order of magnitude, the moon is as far from Mars as Earth.
People are asking why not go to the moon again now?
1. It's costly
2. There is no good return on it.
I'll take your challenge and beg to differ on point #2.
The benefits to industry, environmentalism, and a relatively painless solution to the energy crisis would all stem from having a permanent presence on the Moon.
People get caught up in "it's a big rock so what lol", but there's more implications than that.
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2. We can use it to build habitats. Reponse: we have orbital habitats.
The moon has resources that would allow it to sustain on-going industry and be somewhat more self-sustaining than an orbital habitat.
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3. We can use it to stage to Mars. Response: in terms of order of magnitude, the moon is as far from Mars as Earth.
Yes and no. The real cost is getting out of the gravity well. Once you're in orbit, it becomes a matter of mathematics.
One of the big reasons we're not traveling the system is because we don't have any dedicated, permanent facilities off the Earth. Kill the cost of heavy lifting and start assembling your vehicles in orbit, the process becomes much cheaper.
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I'll take your challenge and beg to differ on point #2.
The benefits to industry, environmentalism, and a relatively painless solution to the energy crisis would all stem from having a permanent presence on the Moon.
The costs of shipping supplies to the moon, maintaining a living presence there and shipping material back would kill the program.
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People get caught up in "it's a big rock so what lol", but there's more implications than that.
It's a big rock that would drain an economy to exploit at this time.
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The moon has resources that would allow it to sustain on-going industry and be somewhat more self-sustaining than an orbital habitat.
you're about to prove my point.
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Yes and no. The real cost is getting out of the gravity well. Once you're in orbit, it becomes a matter of mathematics.
Yes and no, for each and every shipment off the planet. And it's not just mathematics as even space is unpredictable. Solar storms, mechanical malfunctions, etc. And then there is landing and take off from the moon with payload.
And the real cost is NOT getting off the planet. We do that all the time. Money is nothing to nations on a one time deal. Make it a continuous drain... The real cost would be the nine months to get to Mars and and another nine to get back. There is the food, water, fuel, power, waste handling, lack of gravity's effect on the body, shielding from cosmic radiation, shielding from particles and pebbles that would riddle the hull...the list goes on. Once the project is moving, you can't just turn around if there is a malfunction that destroys the mission. They would have to actually go all the way there.
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One of the big reasons we're not traveling the system is because we don't have any dedicated, permanent facilities off the Earth. Kill the cost of heavy lifting and start assembling your vehicles in orbit, the process becomes much cheaper.
No, it's the limits the body body can tolerate that prevent us from traveling the system. We might be able to get to Mars, but until something better is found, that is the best we'll get, if we work hard at it.
The costs of shipping supplies to the moon, maintaining a living presence there and shipping material back would kill the program.
It's a big rock that would drain an economy to exploit at this time.
At first, perhaps. But again-- it's not impossible for the moon to support industry on it's own. A colony could potentially crack it's own atmosphere and water from the lunar soil, as one example.
And I can't ever keep my mind off the fact that solar power stations covering the surface could power the entire planet above and beyond our current civilization. That's not something to sneeze at when calculating the return on investment.
But the public is ADD and only likes immediate gratification, so that gets shot down.
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Yes and no, for each and every shipment off the planet. And it's not just mathematics as even space is unpredictable. Solar storms, mechanical malfunctions, etc.
...no, it's not Star Trek. We can calculate orbits decades and centuries in advance. It's a matter of launching; once that's gone, you're riding the train to the destination.
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And then there is landing and take off from the moon with payload.
Trivial, compared to Earth's gravity well.
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And the real cost is NOT getting off the planet. We do that all the time. Money is nothing to nations on a one time deal. Make it a continuous drain...
Yes, that's why getting off the planet is the real cost.
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The real cost would be the nine months to get to Mars and and another nine to get back. There is the food, water, fuel, power, waste handling, lack of gravity's effect on the body, shielding from cosmic radiation, shielding from particles and pebbles that would riddle the hull...the list goes on. Once the project is moving, you can't just turn around if there is a malfunction that destroys the mission. They would have to actually go all the way there.
Economically speaking, the cost is getting to orbit.
What you're describing here are technical/engineering hurdles. Cost-wise, these are not prohibitive to build. Getting them into Earth orbit would be.
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No, it's the limits the body body can tolerate that prevent us from traveling the system. We might be able to get to Mars, but until something better is found, that is the best we'll get, if we work hard at it.
From an economic standpoint, it's the non-trivial cost of delivering payloads to orbit that's relevant. If/when that is overcome, most likely by establishing a permanent base in orbit or on the Moon, a lot of opportunities open up.
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With the addition of the great number of economic hurdles we having occurring and yet to occur but certain. Economically speaking the whole idea is financially inviable right now.
With the addition of the great number of economic hurdles we having occurring and yet to occur but certain. Economically speaking the whole idea is financially inviable right now.
This bit I'll agree on.
Now, if we'd kept at it 30 years ago like we should have....
Ah the will of the people.
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^Good luck finding anything of ours in space with a simple telescope.
Yeah, the typical backyard telescope is good for peeping in your neighbor's window, not so good at seeing such tiny objects on the moon.
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The Holocaust had millions of witnesses, who were physically there at the scene(s). Not to mention easily accessible evidence.
The moon landing everyone watched on tv, and it's not like you can walk out there and take a look at the site.
Totally different.
I love a good conspiracy theory. Just love em. Logistically, do you know how difficult it would be to keep quiet with so many hands in it? Especially after Apollo 1. Someone would feel guilty three died to help stage a hoax.
Now, if we'd kept at it 30 years ago like we should have....
Ah the will of the people.
30 years ago? Do you honestly think we had the tech to pull it off 30 years ago?
In 1978 I was gearing up to start high school. I think the Soviets had invaded Afghanistan, the US Olympic hockey team would create the biggest upset in history against the Soviet team, Nadia Comaneci was kicking ass on the mat, we were in the midst of a oil embargo...
Good times those, for the most part, but no where near the level required for a Mars mission or establishing a moon base.
I think it's weird that we can agree that we're in space semi-permanently. Landing crap on mars. Blah, blah, blah. But landing on the moon...no way.
Oh noes. Many of the same people who believe we didn't land on the moon also believe the entire space program is an elaborate ongoing hoax and we never left Earth at all.
30 years ago? Do you honestly think we had the tech to pull it off 30 years ago?
In 1978 I was gearing up to start high school. I think the Soviets had invaded Afghanistan, the US Olympic hockey team would create the biggest upset in history against the Soviet team, Nadia Comaneci was kicking ass on the mat, we were in the midst of a oil embargo...
Good times those, for the most part, but no where near the level required for a Mars mission or establishing a moon base.
Scale it back another 5 years to 1973 and we still had Saturn Vs in production. They, or a suitable replacement, should never have been scrapped.
You keep harping on all these socio-economic factors, but it always boiled down to one thing: there was no political will to make it happen due to lack of any foresight.
Same thing that holds it back today. Nobody gives enough of a damn, because they're too busy worrying what zany antics Paris Hilton will be up to, trying to figure out why the banks are taking the house they couldn't afford, or complaining about how it's too expensive and won't bring any benefits despite the plethora of substantial benefits it would bring given time and investment.
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Was the Moon landing a hoax?
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