Wusses Finish Last

[chris_f]

Though its been two year's since I wrote on my school newspaper's staff, i still ocassionally pick it up to read. Yesterday, an article stuck out to me, and I wrote a response column. They ran it the next day as a guest spot. Here is the article it's in response to: Why nice guys finish last, sometimes.

And here is mine: Why good guys REALLY come in last.

Why Good Guys REALLY Come In Last

By Chris Ferdinandi

Jeremy Carmona, it was with great interest that I read your recent article, “Why good guys come in last, sometimes.” A former Cigar columnist myself, I too have written about the issue of Nice Guy Syndrome (NGS) in some detail. A quick Google search for the phrase “Chris Ferdinandi Dating” will bring you to the articles.

At any rate, I wanted to address your analysis of NGS in an attempt to help you and the countless guys out there who suffer from the same debilitating condition. You see, the problem isn’t that you’re nice. The problem is that you’re a wuss.

Nice Guy Syndome


The simple truth is, women are not attracted to macho assholes because they’re macho assholes. They’re attracted to macho assholes because they’re also confident, and confidence is sexy! No one appreciates a doormat. You know the “women to bring home to mother” that you describe? Chances are she’s confident – not a bitch, but self-assured, poised and graceful. Women want the same thing in a man (more or less – perhaps more gentlemanly than graceful!).

But don’t be ashamed! Plenty of guys suffer the same affliction. I am myself a recovering wuss. The truth is, you actually have a strong and notable advantage over the “over-confident, over-gelled and over-cocky bad asses” that keep stealing potential women from your grasp before you’ve even had a chance to remove your hands from your pockets. Here’s why: you can learn to be more confident, and still be a nice guy; an asshole will (barring some catastrophic life-event) most likely always be an asshole!

Dropping the Inner Wuss (aka Growing a Pair)

Up to this point, I have been speaking in generalities, and as someone who self-identifies as “being one bold and friendly guy,” you’re probably wondering why I think you’re a wuss. Allow me to provide some examples.

Confident guys don’t kill women with kindness. That’s unchallenging. It’s boring. It gets old fast. How much fun would you have with a woman who doles over your every word like a stray puppy begging for attention? The appeal would wear off in about 35 seconds. Treat women with respect. Be chivalrous. But never “kill her with kindness.”

Confident guys don’t say that being called a great friend “shot down my lonely heart and made me sulk in a pit of confusion.” They say, “Her loss that she doesn’t get to experience me on a more intimate level, and my gain for having such a great friend in my life.” There are plenty of beautiful, wonderful women in the world dying to meet a nice, confident guy. Get back out there!

Finally, confident guys are not “looking for women to bring home to mother.” They’re looking for a women to come home to. It’s definitely a plus if my mom like’s the woman I’m dating, but guess who’s not sleeping next to her every night? That’s right, my mom! (Though if she was, that coveted spot on Jerry Springer might finally be mine!) Wusses behave in a way that seeks the approval of others. Confident guys look for behaviors that they like, but don’t care if others approve.

Jeremy, there are plenty of great, gorgeous women out there who are dying to meet a more confident you. To paraphrase myself, this isn’t about changing who you are. It’s about presenting yourself in a way that makes women more inclined to want to get to know you in the first place.

Remember, nice guys don’t finish last – wusses do!

[Mahler]

Frankly (and this is admittedly an outsider's view, since I have been out of the dating game for three decades) it often appears to me that couples are looking to complete an image. It's like, what man or woman goes best with my designer jeans? A partner seems more like the appropriate accessory rather than anything that would be considered for a long term (marriage or otherwise) relationship.


PS. Shark. I like the new avatar. You look positively respectable.

[liftintexas]

Chris, definitely agree with the general thesis. It's about the confidence. A lesson that escaped me all through high school and college.

Your article also reminded me that I'm thankful to no longer have to worry about dating!

but good read, thanks for linking

[chris_f]

Thanks for the comments. And Mahler, thanks for the compliment (I think?)

[Flashy]

The trouble with confidence -- at least in the guys I've dated -- is it's often masking a whole grocery list of insecurities.

I'm always attracted to strength and confidence -- fall for it rather easily, to be honest. But when I start chipping away and finding all those little issues behind the wall, I realize it's more bravado than confidence.

[Howard_Rourke]

Confidence is part of it, I guess.

Here's the what's always worked for me when it comes to women. You need to make a woman feel:

1. Safe
2. Special
3. Understood

If you can do that all three you should be in pretty good shape.

Being confident or macho or a wuss only applies to number 1. There's much more to a woman and what she wants than that.

[Phaedrus49er]

There's always beer

[liftintexas]

good point Howard. I wasn't equating confidence with macho/being an ass

[chris_f]

Originally Posted by Flashy

The trouble with confidence -- at least in the guys I've dated -- is it's often masking a whole grocery list of insecurities.

I'm always attracted to strength and confidence -- fall for it rather easily, to be honest. But when I start chipping away and finding all those little issues behind the wall, I realize it's more bravado than confidence.

You don't have any insecurities? Everyone does. There's a need to rise above. And over time, confidence literally does overcome insecurity. I offer you this from an older article I wrote:

Christopher Ferdinandi

Maybe you're not a confident person, and right now you're wondering how to become one. I mean, it's not like you can just "make" confidence, right? Actually, you can ... sort of. Remember this phrase: "Fake it 'til you make it."

Researchers have done scientific studies that have actually shown that if you emulate an emotion externally, you'll begin to feel it internally. If you frown long enough, for example, you'll start to feel sad.

In our pre-language days - and even now - this allowed humans, through emulation, to communicate emotions instantly simply by reading non-verbal body language. It's an essential aspect of group living, and you can make it work to your advantage in several ways.

First, if you want to be confident, act confident. I know that sounds a little too simple, but that's really all there is to it! Stand up straight, keep your head up, walk with purpose and look people in the eye.

It takes a bit of practice, but keep at it long enough, and you'll definitely notice a difference in your attitude and how others perceive you. If you want to speed the process along a little bit start working out. You'll be forcing yourself to stand in confident postures (assuming you use proper form), and you'll begin to feel more confident as a result.

[chris_f]

Howie, point noted. It's worth mentioning that for this particular kid, it appears that confidence is his main issue. I actually prescribe to a three-part CHRIS formula: Confidence, Humor, and Ridiculously, Incredibly Sexy. I'd like to think in combination those other two are covered.

I also think, though, that some guys go too far in trying to make a woman feel special. Then, much like Mr. Nice Guy in this most recent column, you lose all sense of a challenge, and leave her bored and wanting more.

[Matthew]

Hey Chris, I don't know if you can or if it's too late now, but you might want to go through some of the articles on the page you link to in your signature.

Some of them got a little screwed up:

Now that you’ve got

I read three of them though and they're very good.

[Flashy]

Originally Posted by shark

You don't have any insecurities? Everyone does. There's a need to rise above. And over time, confidence literally does overcome insecurity. I offer you this from an older article I wrote:

Christopher Ferdinandi

Some. Not as many as your average person, so you can climb down of your high horse. But you're young. I get that.

I believe you fail to recognize the difference (which I pointed out) between confidence and bravado. I guess you don't realize women are the only gender who fake something.

Confidence cannot be built off a lack of self-esteem. Bravado can be.

[chris_f]

Originally Posted by Flashy

Some. Not as many as your average person, so you can climb down of your high horse. But you're young. I get that.

I believe you fail to recognize the difference (which I pointed out) between confidence and bravado. I guess you don't realize women are the only gender who fake something.

Confidence cannot be built off a lack of self-esteem. Bravado can be.

No high horse here. That was a serious question, so maybe you should climb of yours. Your last two or three sentences don't make much sense to me. Care to elaborate? Or actually, never mind. you're so smart that I think you'll talk above my meager intellectual level.

[chris_f]

Originally Posted by Matthew

Hey Chris, I don't know if you can or if it's too late now, but you might want to go through some of the articles on the page you link to in your signature.

Some of them got a little screwed up:

I noticed that earlier too. I made the whole page with HTML and I'm too lazy to fix it, though

[Flashy]

Originally Posted by shark

No high horse here. That was a serious question, so maybe you should climb of yours. Your last two or three sentences don't make much sense to me. Care to elaborate? Or actually, never mind. you're so smart that I think you'll talk above my meager intellectual level.

Well, first of all, on behalf of all women, thank you so much for letting us know what we want and to what we're attracted.

Second, can't figure out the basic difference between confidence and bravado? And the concept that 'bravado' masks a lack of self-esteem?

I'll let Merriam-Webster assist in the process:

Confidence -
1 a: a feeling or consciousness of one's powers or of reliance on one's circumstances confidence in her ability to succeed> confidence> b: faith or belief that one will act in a right, proper, or effective way confidence in a leader>
2: the quality or state of being certain : certitude confidence of success>


Bravado -
1 a: blustering swaggering conduct b: a pretense of bravery
2: the quality or state of being foolhardy


To sum, it up ... confidence is a state of being. Bravado is pretending to have that state.

[chris_f]

What I actually could not and still cannot understand is actually this set of statements:

"I guess you don't realize women are the only gender who fake something. Confidence cannot be built off a lack of self-esteem. Bravado can be."

And yes, actually, I think I have a pretty good handle on what MOST women want. And in case you didn't notice, I don't tell you (you being women) - I tell men. That's my target audience.

I've clearly struck a nerve with you, which makes me inclined to believe you've had to deal with many guys who are the wusses that I describe in my articles, or that maybe you're not into men (seriously, and there's nothing wrong with that). Either way, I'm not sure where the incredibly thick attitude you've sprinkled into this otherwise delightful thread has come from.

Relax, it's just a web forum

[Matthew]

Confidence cannot be built off a lack of self-esteem. Bravado can be.

I'm pretty sure this is what the whole 'fake it til you make it' thing is talking about.
Bravado now (built off a lack of self esteem) = confidence later (replacing a lack of self esteem, dur). As Chris pointed out in the article he quoted from,

"Researchers have done scientific studies that have actually shown that if you emulate an emotion externally, you'll begin to feel it internally."

Fake it (bravado) til you make it (actual, real-live confidence).



If this doesn't do it for you, then I'm afraid I have no idea what you're trying to argue against.






ps. guys don't like it when you "chip away" at their wall. We build a wall to last, if we wanted it broken down we wouldn't build a wall at all, but a fence, with an easily accessible gate. And a welcome party. With streamers, and those funny hats. And cake. And a banner that says "Congratulations, you've broken us down to nothing. Enjoy your cake".
hehe

[Matthew]

Chris, won't you feel better if you just get it done? Just take a few minutes, or an hour, or however long it takes, and just focus on it. And get it finished, and finished right. And then you can let it go from that spot in the back of your mind where you put things you don't want to have to deal with.

Wouldn't that sense of accomplishment/completion feel really good?

[chris_f]

Matthew, thank you for simultaneously doing a much better job articulating my perspective than I could have, and also helping me understand what Flashy was talking about.

Speaking of chipping away at walls: are you encouraging a man to lower the drawbridge and let you in, or just chipping away at his ego as Matthew implies? If it's the latter, then no wonder you've been disappointed by everything that you've found.

[chris_f]

Originally Posted by Matthew

Chris, won't you feel better if you just get it done? Just take a few minutes, or an hour, or however long it takes, and just focus on it. And get it finished, and finished right. And then you can let it go from that spot in the back of your mind where you put things you don't want to have to deal with.

Wouldn't that sense of accomplishment/completion feel really good?

Perhaps, but with grad school, working full-time, a gf on the cusp of fiancedom, and trying to maintain some semblance of a life, that hour is one i'd rather spend doing other things, like tinkering away on JPs!

Are you venturing into a career as a motivational speaker?

[Flashy]

Originally Posted by shark

What I actually could not and still cannot understand is actually this set of statements:

"I guess you don't realize women are the only gender who fake something. Confidence cannot be built off a lack of self-esteem. Bravado can be."

And yes, actually, I think I have a pretty good handle on what MOST women want. And in case you didn't notice, I don't tell you (you being women) - I tell men. That's my target audience.

I've clearly struck a nerve with you, which makes me inclined to believe you've had to deal with many guys who are the wusses that I describe in my articles, or that maybe you're not into men (seriously, and there's nothing wrong with that). Either way, I'm not sure where the incredibly thick attitude you've sprinkled into this otherwise delightful thread has come from.

Relax, it's just a web forum

Hang on ... I don't like men because I see flaws in your argument? Because I'm telling you there is more to 'confidence' than meets the eyes?
Wow ... next you're going to tell me every time you throw shit at a wall, it sticks.
Good for you.
And I'll now take this moment to let you know that your 'article' is peppered with condescending and sexist statements toward women.
We are not to be 'stolen' and we are not to be 'come home to.'
We are individuals with our own minds who are looking for partners to share life with, not sit at home waiting for you to get there.
Take it to Maxim.

[chris_f]

1. i hate maxim
2. if you want to interpret sexist remarks in my paper because you hate men, that's your business. my gf of two year's would be more than happy to argue that we're equal partners in our relationship, however, and what attracted her to me in the first place was an article I wrote on dating. Would you prefer me to, when writing to an undergraduate college audience, use academic speak instead of fun casual speak?

Ex. instead of

The truth is, you actually have a strong and notable advantage over the “over-confident, over-gelled and over-cocky bad asses” that keep stealing potential women from your grasp before you’ve even had a chance to remove your hands from your pockets.

I could have said

he truth is, you actually have a strong and notable advantage over the “over-confident, over-gelled and over-cocky bad asses” that are able to more effectively garner the attention of a woman in a social setting and maintain that interest long enough that she makes a conscious and independent choice to enter into a courtship ritual with him instead of with you before you've even had a moment to consider the implications of your actions.

Don't you see how the first one kind of makes the point a bit more effectively?

[LisaS]

no on the academic speak but understand that you could spend time as a writer to choose a better metaphor for relationship than one steeped in steal, property, ownership, grasp - there is all sorts of undertone in the choice to use that metaphor and it does convey an attitude towards women, intentional or not.

just as the "lynch him" comment from the golf analyst carried baggage that the speaker didn't actually inten -- the choice to add to the conversation by bringing in that particular metaphor brought to mind other issues