the computer sciences field

[Matthew]

Ok, here's the deal. I took this short online 'interest assessment' and it spat out some vague career suggestions. "Computers" was one of them (I said vague).
So then I get this list (scroll down) of some jobs in the "computers" field. I'm reading through the list and doing some research on each job and I find that I'm strangely intrigued by "computer systems analyst".

So I took a look at some colleges around here and some related programs, and by a quick glance at the admission requirements section I think that this could be an option for me. Now it's time to really start looking deeper into this position and find out if it's something I can see myself doing for years to come.

So what I'd like to do now is, I'd like to ask if anyone in here works as a systems analyst or any other related occupation.
If you wouldn't mind giving up a few minutes of your time, I'd like to know -
-what's a day as a (insert your title here) like?
-what do you love about the job?
-what do you hate about it?
-what do you think is important for a (insert your title here) to possess? (anything from personality traits to certifications to 'extra' degrees)
-why did you decide to get into your line of work?
-if you work for a company, why did you chose that over being self-employed? If you are self employed, why did you chose that over working for a company?
-on a scale of 1-10, how stressful would you say this position is?

- and any other information you'd like to throw in there.

I realize this will probably take more than a few minutes, and I really appreciate anyone who takes the time to reply.
Thank you,
Matthew

[Lost Dog]

Hi. My name is Roland and I'm a Systems Analyst.

SA is a pretty vague, catch-all title, though. A SA can be anything from a programmer to a database manager to a person who works in Accounting doing whatever that might entail.

It can even be what I am. A guy who works for Xerox as a Systems Analyst.

Basically, we sell production printing and publishing hardware, software, consulting, ans services (like people who will run the stuff we sell to your company, so your own people don't have to). My job is to be the technical arm of the sales force, the software/network expert arm of the Service dept (i.e., the wrench and screwdriver guys), and a consultant, trainer, and sometime programmer to my customers. I also do light duty project management (meaning for the big stuff, we bring in real ones...).

Every day is different. I do research into printing and publishing applications and products, answer a lot of emails and talk on the phone a lot. Both with other Xerox people, 3rd party vendors, and my customers. I drive a lot. 1-3 customer visits per day, typically. We have a lot of conference calls, which is better than driving all the wy to an office to waste time, but still time wasting, of course. Someone always thinks they are valuable. Usually the person who invited us.

I love that every day is different. I love that, despite the fact that I'm pushing my own company's equipment and services, I really do think we are the best, so it's easy to stand behind it.

There's nothing that I hate that's not found in every other company I've worked for. Mostly it's the slackers. But, everyplace has slackers, some more than others.

For my particular version of SA, a degree in anything is a plus. The computer degree guys don't have anything on my friend the philosophy major (wtf?). A graphic arts major (or graphic artist) who also really know computers, but isn't a afraid to use PCs and Macs would be a plus for us. Certs like an MCSE might help you get the job, but probably not enough to justify the PIA getting it. Experience with production printing and publishing and being able to demonstrate that you figured all sorts of fancy stuff out for yourself wins big points. Color theory, digital press technology, lithography, etc. are big plusses. My own particular specialty is high speed customized transactional printing (designing processes for things like customizing your credit card bill or a postcard mailing to come to you fully customized and unique to you. You'd be surprised how many databases know that your favorite color is blue, so I can use that to make sure that the picture of the Lexus on your mailing is blue, only it's not a Lexus because you're under 25. You get a Scion (you deviant)).

I got into it because it was interesting at the time. I worked for a university, in the Data Center (which is a dull place, usually in the basement, with no windows and a lot of HUGE computers that play no games). We had Xerox printers. I read the manuals and discovered that we barely scratched the surface of what we could do with them. I learned to make them do fancy things, then one day, I won an award from Xerox for creating applications that were extra fancy (they phrased it better than that). I became friends with the SAs that were there and supported my university and when there was an opening, they asked me if I was interested. I was.

It's not that stressful, but there is some stress when many projects come together at the same time. As a sales/manufacturing company, we get very busy at month end, quarter end, and especially year end. Makes it hard to take vacation at Christmas and New Years, for instance. Don't have to work them, but I can't take a week off around those times without an act of God. Every Halloween, I pray that I don't have a printer/system install to manage, since that day falls on the end of a month (I have kids and would prefer to be with them trick or treating).

I think I'm the farthest thing from a typical SA. Most of the ones I've met are closer to computer programmers.

[Simon C]

Wow, sounds boring.... No wonder I've never heard you talk about your job...

Actually, I'll probably be moving into IT/Business Info Sys next year at uni lol

[castufari]

I'm a SA for State of NC in Division of Public Health. Like LD said "SA" is a fairly broad title, ranging from DB goons to network managers to telco types.

My job description is to provide high level support, managing all of the networks and their infrastructure.

My SA job has me managing 30+ servers, 200+ people at 17+ different office locations (spread out over most of western NC). I also am their primary tech support person (if I have the time to help them). I also manage antivirus for 1100 people, do some financial stuff, act as a liaison between different segments of the agency (I tell them who to call if they have no clue WTF is going on). Lately I've been doing a lot of building management, acting as a liaison. between the different branches and the state architect and the build developer to make sure everything they need for their new spaces is there. I also do computer rollouts.

The worse part of the job is dealing with developers and local management. One of my offices is moving soon. I saw the floor plans and noticed a lot of problems, namely the space was way under designed. Power outlets just met specs but weren't enough for us. Data/phone wiring was a joke, we have 3 people sharing offices and they put in a single phone/network jack - which 3 have to share. I can drop in cheap hubs so they can share network connections (it's not kosher but it works) but they're SOL for phones. So....after they move in I have to go through and see what needs to be done then coordinate electricians, telco guys and network wiring goons to bring the building up to speed while trying to find funding for all of this. I know little about accounting and have spent a lot of evenings looking over the accounts to see what is where so I can find places to move money from.

The good part? It's never a dull moment. I have free reign and am immune to everything. I've been with the state for 9 years and know enough people to make me valuable. They cut me a lot of slack. We also have a lot of cuties in the offices.

We have a few slackers around, those who do exactly what is asked of them and little else. I ignore them and let them continue their downhill slide to nothingness. One person has done the same job for 15 years, hasn't moved up any, hasn't gotten any promotions/raises (outside of the yearly thing the state gives us).

Education. hrmmm. Mine was hands on, I got into computers in the 80s when I was working for a multinational engineering firm. They bought a PC and wanted data inputted, I ended up being the input person, moving later into CAD. I've taken a lot of classes and have a 2 year degree. This spring I'm returning to school to finish my BS so I can move over into the financial side and leave IT behind. No certs or anything, I've never seen the need for them. I'm so far above the "help desk" thing that they'd do me no good.

Stress? Sort of. If I have time off planned then something will fail and that something will be far away. I was leaving for my fall surf trip a few weeks ago when the phone rang. The primary printer in one of the offices failed....and that office was 3 hours in the opposite direction of where I was driving. I did what I could over the phone and had to tell them to wait, which made them and my boss very upset (jesus h...if you can't print to that printer, print to the one next to it which is identical but doesn't do color). People don't seem happy because I'm always behind (I have the largest territory and this one is supposed to be covered by 2 people, not 1). I take it all with a grain of salt since they know I'll listen.

[kingkop182]

Some very interesting stories there

[Matthew]

Very interesting.

Those were exactly the kind of replies I was hoping for. Thank you both so much for taking the time to help me out, I really appreciate it.

You both mentioned that 'systems analyst' is a broad title and can mean many things. Now the program I'm looking at is called Computer Systems Technology - Systems Analyst Co-op. In term 5 and term 6 I can choose either the Programming Path or the Systems Path, but only one or two courses change depending on the path I choose, so it's still a pretty general program I would think.
Because SA can mean so many different things, would I need to further specialize depending on what position I'm looking for, or do you think this program would be enough by itself to open up many different positions?

The link above is to a list of the courses covered in the program. I really don't know much about this stuff so I can't tell just by looking at the course list if everything has been covered or if they've left some things out. I guess I'm just asking if this program looks good to you, people who are currently working in the field. You might not be able to tell much either, but any insight really is a big help.

Thanks again,
Matthew

[Lost Dog]

Hopefully, you'll get some responses from some younger SAs. I don't like to think 40 is old, but in the computer related fields, a lot has changed since I got into it.

When I started in 88-90, we were split between people with no computer related degree (music, art, journalism, you name it) and those with computer science-style degrees. The common thread was really that we figured out computers on our own (usually at home or in jr high/high school). In those days, computers were new to the average person. There were few computers in homes. Four of us went to my friend's house to use his computer, which had no GUI. No programs (other than games) to speak of, we had to write a lot of them.

Now, computers are ubiquitous. And, getting started in a corporation as an SA probably requires specific things that we didn't need back then. Since everyone knows computers, that parts easy. But, most people don't have to write programs or macros, so you get that in school. You get taught computer concepts and get shown a lot of what's going on "behind the scenes" on a computer or network.

Once you get into the field, you might start to specialize in routers or specific networks and get training and certs in those.

Again, hopefully, you'll get some more responses.

[Pman]

Something to consider as you move forward is to work toward a customer facing type of career. The systems side versus the programming side. Most programming work is being outsourced and is getting tougher to find corporate jobs of this nature. Systems set up and design work will always need people on site to set up the system and maintain it.

Just something to consider.

[Chris D]

I'm not a SA, but I've been a web developer/programmer/technical manager for the past 9 years. If you want thoughts on that I'll be more than willing to spit out a few.

[Matthew]

Chris - I bet you have a lot of interesting things to say, I'd love to read some of your thoughts. Thanks.

Pman - good point you just raised, I'll have to keep that in mind. Thanks

And thanks for your help LD. I guess once I get started in school/co-op I'll start to see where I want to go with it, and what I'll need to do to get there.

[Frank.S]

I am a dual major. One of those majors is Computer Science. Right now the majority of my job is programming/database work. I do alot of stuff with geography.. but I wont talk about that here. CS/systems analysist == alot of the same courses and things.

A basic day for me is.. show up when I can, do some coding/debugging for about 20mins.. surf here and youtube for the rest of the day. Once you get half decent at coding and other things, its quick, its like english, you dont even think about it. Until this point, its very tedious and can be very challenging learning languages and concepts. Personally I specialize in GIS (geographic information systems) and remote sensing (big air photos). When people ask what I do. I usually just say 'google earth'. This stuff is all database work/programming/managing huge huge amounts of data.

What I love about the work.. I like working by myself, I get more done. this works good for me, although, lots of companies are big on team work now. You do get to solve lots of problems which can be satisfying. I like the pay generally too.

What I hate.. The other people who do this kind of stuff. about 50% of them are just.. well big nerds. Also, the classes/courses are known to be in a dark room with no windows and are very boring at times.

In this day and age, good luck getting a job without a degree in something. 20 years ago, sure.. now, unlikely.. unless of course you have lots of experience.

I wanted to make computer games. Now, I just do the coding/db work and such because I have to, to get what I want to do done. I dont hate it, I dont love it, its ok. I was at one time, straight CS major but I couldn't take the boring tasks all day.

Not stressful if you know what your doing.. Maybe a 2-4 for most jobs in this area.

It takes the right person for systems work and programming work. You have to be really good at math. Think of most courses as math courses. You have to be able to sit down and work on things for hours. It helps being an organized person too. Some people are made for this stuff and love it. I would suggest if you have a bit of time to pick up a few basic books on what you want to learn, read the books. Its alot of school/work/courses to get anywhere in this stuff and youll want to make sure its what you want. I started with about 6 friends in my program, now, not one of us are in it.. Still all in school, but, all our different paths.

People never beleive me when I tell them what I do. I get the 'you dont look like that kind of guy..' all the time. I think anyone who works with computers is supposed to be lanky and smelly.. hah. Sorry, I just got up and this whole post is all over the place.

[Matthew]

I do alot of stuff with geography.. but I wont talk about that here.

This is a place for sharing, Frank.

Seriously, I'm really interested in what you do. If you aren't exposed to jobs, you'll never be aware of them. I'd love to hear about all the wacky things you guys have done with your education (as long as it's the tiniest bit relevant to what we're talking about here). You might say something I haven't thought of, maybe something I could see myself doing. In which case, you'd be my lifelong best friend (There's No Getting Out Of It! Just Let It Happen!).



Here's the thing. I am good with math. I was given the mathematics and technology award at grade eight grad, and the only thing that stopped me from getting the same award at highschool grad was my lack of effort/motivation in school. I grew up doing math, it comes fairly easy to me now.

I'm also good at problem solving (excluding life decisions, hehe). And I like problem solving. Anything to do with patterns. Logic puzzles. Word searches. Stuff like that. I LOVE that thing in the newspaper, where they'll write a sentence but the letters are all wrong. Like A=k, L=I, and they'll tell you one letter and it's counterpart, and then you have to figure out the whole sentence. I could definitely spend hours doing this stuff and not get bored. Might have to stand up and stretch once in a while though..

I can't do the exact same thing day in and day out. Like warehouse work. It's the same damn thing over and over, and requires little to no thinking. Walk here, pick up a box, walk there, put the box down. I can't deal with that, it makes me want to stick my finger through my eye, into my brain, and swirl it around. So I like that every day is different.

I spend most of the day in front of the computer anyway, so I have that going for me...
Also, pretty much everything in the program will be new to me. Not like the fitness program I went to, everything they taught me I already knew (already knew was WRONG. Stupid outdated program.) except for things like physiology and anatomy, which not coincidentally were my two best classes. So everything in this new program will be new to me, and interesting, and I'll actually want to learn it. So I think I have that going for me.

I also think this would become like my new passion, at least for the next while. What I mean is, instead of spending my free time reading fitness articles and what not, I'll spend that time learning about new technologies, and old technologies (it's important to know where you came from), and different programming codes and whatever else I'll need to learn, I don't know. I think self education is just as important as in-school education, if not more important. Anyway, I'll have that going for me..

I have to apply to the school soon because programs start in September and January, and I'll want to start in January.
I think I'm right for this, I think I can do it. I just need to find the program that best suits me. I like the one I found, but who knows.

Just thinking out loud.

[OldGuy]

Originally Posted by Lost Dog

You'd be surprised how many databases know that your favorite color is blue

Really?

[Frank.S]

Well, as I mentioned, I started as a straight CS major. It was alright, but I just couldnt see myself in an office my whole life. The CS/geography field has so many jobs right now and I would recomend at least taking some geography courses if you can. Straight CS can be pretty boring at times.. If your likey me, 99% of the project will take about 10 minutes, then that last 1% will take you 2 weeks hah.

Here is kind of an example what i do with my education, right now im working on making a program that calculates some data (biomass and some weird inverse things, hard to explain) of a given digital photo. So I have got to understand air images and how all that works, plus I got to know how to code the thing, make the algorythms etc. This project is was contracted out to me by a really big american org, thats how few people there are that do this stuff.. They get a canadian to do it hah.

Where are you thinking of going for education?

[Lost Dog]

Originally Posted by OldGuy

Really?

As an example. Your fav might be red.

I don't mean general databases (like the govt. although...). But, car companies, for instance. Maybe you test drove a car and filled out some sort of questionnaire?

I'm not sure where they get the data, but I see the sample data (w/fake names) when I'm helping them setup the jobs.

And, when they don't have it, they take a shot at the styles, colors, etc. based on age, income, marital status, etc. It's quite a bit better than random.

[Matthew]

Here is kind of an example what i do with my education, right now im working on making a program that calculates some data (biomass and some weird inverse things, hard to explain) of a given digital photo. So I have got to understand air images and how all that works, plus I got to know how to code the thing, make the algorythms etc. This project is was contracted out to me by a really big american org, thats how few people there are that do this stuff.. They get a canadian to do it hah.

That actually sounds really cool.

Where are you thinking of going for education?

I'm looking at a program at Sheridan college, I posted a link to it earlier. The campus is near me so I can still live at home, and use the money I save to buy a car. College is really my only option right now, I don't have the marks to get into uni. I figure I can always go to uni part time after I graduate college and have some work experience. That way I'd have a college diploma and a university degree, which is actually recommended nowadays (in the opposite order than how I'm doing it though, haha).

[Matthew]

All the research that goes into stealing our wallets, I don't even want to know how far it goes.

We're being turned into cattle. As far as most corporations are concerned, we can spend our days wandering around the city, eating the grass and being tipped over. As long as we provide the milk, all is good.

What a terrible analogy. ha

[Frank.S]

College first is actually a good idea, if your GPA is high enough you can usually get a straight transfer into university in a 2+2 program. I know plenty of people who have done this, its a good deal. You probally could get into some uni's (lots dont need good grades actually), but you would have to live in residence or something which is a pain in the ass sometimes.

Then again, there is alot of jobs out there, you may not even need an additional 2 years.

The information about everyone out there is insane. I try not to give it out much (by stuff in cash, use fake name) but its hard.

[ParanoidAndroid]

what's the difference between college/university in Canada? Here, they're almost the same thing.

[Frank.S]

Originally Posted by ParanoidAndroid

what's the difference between college/university in Canada? Here, they're almost the same thing.

College = typically 2 year certifications and more hands on. Kind of liket a community college in the states I think?

University = Bachleor degrees, Masters, phds etc.. More like a US college.

[ParanoidAndroid]

OK, I see. Thanks.

[OldGuy]

Originally Posted by Lost Dog

As an example. Your fav might be red.

I don't mean general databases (like the govt. although...). But, car companies, for instance. Maybe you test drove a car and filled out some sort of questionnaire?

I'm not sure where they get the data, but I see the sample data (w/fake names) when I'm helping them setup the jobs.

And, when they don't have it, they take a shot at the styles, colors, etc. based on age, income, marital status, etc. It's quite a bit better than random.

Interesting. Manipulated without even knowing it. I need to find an aluminum foil hat.

[Matthew]

The program I'm looking at is three years. It's an Ontario College Advanced Diploma. I don't know what that means, except that it's higher than a certificate.

[Matthew]

Just bumping the thread up.

For anyone who only comes on the site during a weekday, I'm still very much interested to hear from you.

[Cynic]

I can't comment on an SA role, because as everyone has already stated, there is a lot of play with that title. A lot of the UNIX and WINTEL admins at my job have the title SA, but also some of the mainframe people, MVS and IMS support have the SA title.

You will need to consider carefully what subfield of CompSci you want to explore:

Databases
Communications
Embedded Control
3D Graphics/Computer Geometry
Security
Artificial Intelligence
Imaging/data aquisition and interpretation
and much, much more.

You could just do the general business degree in MIS as well.

[Matthew]

Originally Posted by Cynic

You will need to consider carefully what subfield of CompSci you want to explore

I don't think I'll have to consider that for about three years, that's if I go to university straight from college.

I'll definitely be keeping my options in mind though, so when the time comes I'll have the knowledge to make the right decision.
Besides that, I'll just let my curiosity lead me.



Thanks everyone for your replies, I really appreciate you all taking the time to help me out. Thanks.

[Matthew]

Ok, so I've been accepted into four programs at two different colleges around here.

1.Computer Systems Technology - Systems Analyst Co-op
2.Computer Systems Technology - Software Development and Network Engineering Co-op
3.Computer Programmer
4.Computer and Network Support Technician


So now I just have to pick one. I think 1 and 2 will open up a lot of good job opportunities for me, especially since they're both co-op (both programs include three different paid placements, that's a lot of networking). This means that I don't really need to go to university afterwards. Both programs are three years.

One option I've been considering lately though (lately being today and yesterday) is taking number 3 (Computer Programmer, not a co-op program) for two years (or fast track and get it done in 16 months) and then going to university for another 3-4 years to study mechanical engineering. That would set me up nicely for a career in robotics, me thinks.

I have to look into this more, maybe I could take number 2 (software dev. & network eng) and still get into a mechanical engineering program. That would be aaaalll right.

Just wanted to update everyone.

Thanks again for your help!

Matthew

[BeachHead]

How about you put in a warrant officer flight training packet? By the time you graduate flight school you'll have 300,000 bucks worth of training under your belt, and nearly half a degree done! You seem to like shooter stuff (judging by your avatar) You seem pretty mature and level headed.

[BeachHead]

Fuck, nevermind, you're a canadian. Oh well!

[Cynic]

Originally Posted by Matthew

One option I've been considering lately though (lately being today and yesterday) is taking number 3 (Computer Programmer, not a co-op program) for two years (or fast track and get it done in 16 months) and then going to university for another 3-4 years to study mechanical engineering. That would set me up nicely for a career in robotics, me thinks.

Is robotics an extreme interest? Do you see a future of robots coming up and saying "Matt. check this out!..."? IOW, is it a passion to see the advancement of robotics?