JULY 17--NFL star Michael Vick was indicted today on a federal conspiracy charge for his alleged role in a dog fighting venture that operated from a Virginia property owned by the Atlanta Falcons quarterback. A copy of the indictment, filed today in U.S. District Court in Richmond, can be found below. The 27-year-old Vick, whose nickname is listed as "Ookie" in the indictment, allegedly established the Bad Newz Kennels in early-2001 in Smithfield, Virginia. It was this property, for which Vick paid $34,000, that the star athlete and his codefendants used as the "main staging area for housing and training the pit bulls involved in the dog fighting venture and hosting dog fights." According to prosecutors, Vick and his cohorts began purchasing pit bull puppies in late-2001 and would eventually "sponsor" individual dog fights with purses as high as $26,000. In the indictment's most harrowing parts, federal investigators describe what happened to some Bad Newz Kennels dogs that either lost matches or did not perform well in test fights. After a March 2003 loss by a female pit bull, codefendant Purnell Peace, "after consulting with Vick," electrocuted the animal. In April, prosecutors allege, Vick, Peace, and Quanis Phillips, "executed approximately 8 dogs that did not perform well in 'testing' sessions." These animals, the indictment claims, were killed "by various methods, including hanging, drowning, and slamming at least one dog's body to the ground." (18 pages)
At the risk of sounding like a crazy animal activist, I truly think that he and anyone else involved, if found guilty, should be soaked in water and electrocuted in the same fashion in which they killed the underperforming dogs cited in the article. That's not cruel enough, though, i think. Maybe cut off his balls and choke him to death with them?
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I agree. Actually, I vote they cut off his balls, stick them in his mouth, and THEN electrocute him. And hit Clinton Portis in the sack with a Lousville Slugger for making such stupid comments about this incident.
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I think we should let the legal system do it's thing. It's innocent until proven guilty. Duke lacrosse team, anyone?
Way too many people care more about these dogs than the murder of humans beings in the form of abortion.
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What? My opinion of the dogs or abortions? Can't the way people react to both of these heinous acts be compared?
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Let's not forget that this is simply an indictment, not a conviction. I'll be just as disgusted as the next person if the accusations are true, but I'm reserving judgment until the judicial process has done its thing. I don't think he's helped himself over the past couple years with various "misunderstandings" (water bottle, STDs, etc), so his character is questionable, but that doesn't mean he's already guilty. That being said, and being a Carolina Panthers fan, I like our chances against Joey Harrington much more than our chances against Vick
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No need to bring abortion into it, not even the same thing.
You're right, the act of killing dogs is no where near as evil as abortion. That's where I can't understand the reaction of many people on the whole Vick thing.
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I think we should let the legal system do it's thing. It's innocent until proven guilty. Duke lacrosse team, anyone?
I agree...even if it doesn't look good for Vick, everybody starts out innocent.
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I agree...even if it doesn't look good for Vick, everybody starts out innocent.
I really think the NFL did the right thing, though, by suspending him.
eta: Yes, I'm trying to steer this back away from the abortion thing no one wants to see. My apologies to shark, the OP.
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You're right, the act of killing dogs is no where near as evil as abortion. That's where I can't understand the reaction of many people on the whole Vick thing.
I don't want to get into the whole abortion issue, but I agree with you that people are over-reacting on this. I mean, killing dogs is a terrible thing, but certainly not the equivalent of murder like some would believe you to think.
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I don't want to get into the whole abortion issue, but I agree with you that people are over-reacting on this. I mean, killing dogs is a terrible thing, but certainly not the equivalent of murder like some would believe you to think.
Yup, I shouldn't have taken it there. While the treatment and killing of these dogs was horrible, there are so many other things in society that are far worse a get little if any reaction let alone public outcry.
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1. Viking, if you want to have an abortion debate, take it over to CE
2. Yes, I think that killing a living, breathing dog by electrocution, soffocation or brute force is more heinous then chemically aborting a cluster of cells in the first trimester of pregnancy.
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I personally do think that picking on animals is despicable. It's disgusting. If you don't have the empathy needed to keep you from beating the shit out of some poor dog, what are your chances in human interactions? Serial killers almost always start out as animal torturers.
A friendly littel reminder. This is off topic, not CE. If you wish to discuss abortion, take it in to CE.
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Like I said, I apologize for bringing it up. Am I the only one that can read my post?
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eta: Yes, I'm trying to steer this back away from the abortion thing no one wants to see. My apologies to shark, the OP.
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Yup, I shouldn't have taken it there.
Those are direct quotes from my last two posts.
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I dont know how to feel about this. Living in Ny when I was younger, I did see some dog fights here and there (mainly amatuer and nothing like this). I do love animals, and even Pits, even though they have a bad rep. Ive own a pit bull before, and I dont care what anyone says, they are very loving dogs if they arent abused, as in this case.
Not trying to start a debate here, and nothing against you personally shark, but your comments about abortion really bothered me. Coming from someone who's ex tricked me into getting her pregnant, and having to make a decision at the age of 19 to abort my would have been child...then having to go through IVF with my wife now, I can assure you that unless its in the first couple of weeks or so, its not just a 'cluster of cells'. By week 7 (less than two months) a fetal pole and heartbeat can be seen. I know this from personal experience.
I should probably comment on the innocent until proven guilty thing. I've seen the snopes report. I haven't figured out who made the allegations yet or how he was caught - does anyone know?
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Raymond, I'm sorry you're bothered by comments. I'm also sorry about your difficult personal experiences.
Just because my opinion bothers you, though, doesn't mean that it's wrong, or invalid, or that I'm not entitled to it. Sorry!
Also, how do you "not know how to feel about this"? You're unsure if you should be upset that grown adults brutally tortured living creatures?
Shark- youre right, you are intitled to your opinion and to say whatever you want...just as much as I am, so I am going to speak my opinion on the subject as well, especially when it something that hits home with me.
My comment of not knowing how I feel about this was meant by the whole, innocent until proven guilty. Whoever is involved in torturing dogs should be convicted and punished, no doubt. My only question is how much, if any, does Vick actually have to do with this.
I think this will end up just like the Ray Lewis murder investigation. He is just a rich guy who likes to play gangster on the weekends. He was probably the bank for most of it but I bet he wasn't that involved. He lives here in Atlanta and according to most people he spends most of his time at home. His lawyers will rip these other thugs testifying against him to pieces and in the end Vick will plead to something minor just so the prosecutors can say that justice was served. Then he better clean up his act and leave those thugs behind.
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I think this will end up just like the Ray Lewis murder investigation. He is just a rich guy who likes to play gangster on the weekends. He was probably the bank for most of it but I bet he wasn't that involved. He lives here in Atlanta and according to most people he spends most of his time at home. His lawyers will rip these other thugs testifying against him to pieces and in the end Vick will plead to something minor just so the prosecutors can say that justice was served. Then he better clean up his act and leave those thugs behind.
This is exactly what I think. Im sure, in one way or another he knew what was going on. I dont think he was there, and may have 'turned his head the other way' type thing. Still doesnt make it right, no doubt.
I'm curious- What makes you guys so confident that he was never there?
His buddies were running this operation in a house that he owned in his hometown. You really think he never showed up at the house over the last 6 years?
I'm curious- What makes you guys so confident that he was never there?
His buddies were running this operation in a house that he owned in his hometown. You really think he never showed up at the house over the last 6 years?
Im not confident of anything, but some of what Ive read thus far doesnt make me think he was an active participant during these fights. Especially being a pro athlete, and having alot of his time taken up, etc. Also, if he was present and fully involved, then not only is he sick, but also an idiot. I just dont see it.
Im thinking more along the lines of what the pp said...that he 'knew' somewhat about it, but wasnt actively there...but then again, who knows.
Im not confident of anything, but some of what Ive read thus far doesnt make me think he was an active participant during these fights. Especially being a pro athlete, and having alot of his time taken up, etc. Also, if he was present and fully involved, then not only is he sick, but also an idiot. I just dont see it.
Im thinking more along the lines of what the pp said...that he 'knew' somewhat about it, but wasnt actively there...but then again, who knows.
Everything I've read says the guy is an idiot - he doesn't think about things before doing them. People like that are easily influenced by people with bad intentions. Unfortunately, being an idiot also leads many people to being criminal.
Whether he was there or not, he owned the property and is responsible for what goes on at his house. I am sure they are trying to make an example of him, but if it is true that many athletes are involved in this sort of stuff, then it could really expose things.
Regardless, I think the guy is screwed. Tough judge, quick court system and relentless prosecutors - he doesn't have much of a chance. He'll be convicted, but in the end who knows how severe the charges will be.
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