I considered posting this in the CE forum, but since this is not political or related in anyway to current events, but is more a question of style and structure, it probably doesn't belong.
I've been involved in some personal intellectual pursuits and one of these is argumentation and reasoning skills.
I have an account on www.teach12.com and have quite a few of their DVD courses (mostly philisophy, literature and language, but I have some psychology and political on their way), one of which is Argumentaion: The Study of Effective Reasoning (4 DVDs, 24 30min lectures).
Now, a companion article they posted was "38 Ways to Win an Argument" from Arthur Schopenhauer's "The Art of Controversy." It pretty much goes against anything I've understood to winning an argument. Example:
Quote:
38. Become personal, insulting and rude as soon as you perceive that your opponent has the upper hand. In becoming personal you leave the subject altogether, and turn your attack on the person by remarks of an offensive and spiteful character. This is a very popular technique, because it takes so little skill to put it into effect.
I've always understood that reducing it to the personal, insulting and rude was actually a lost argument, he/she engaging in that style does so because they've run out of intelligent argument.
Just a quick comment, which may be more semantics than anything. The operative phrase seems to be "win an arguement" which I think in the snese that Schopenhauer uses, differs from debating or an intellectual exchange. He seems to be talking about a zero-sum approach rather than a debate which is I think more of what you have been exposed to. I think that Schopenhauer's appraoch seems to have become quite dominate in American political exchanges.
cheers
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Peter
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When I took Philosophy Back in college, one of our books was called "How to Win an Argument" (or something close to that.)
In politics, I often see someone losing an argument, an then resorting to personal attacks. When this happens, IMO, that person has lost.
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I'd recommend you read Getting to Yes instead. Like Pete mentioned, it makes the point that very few arguments are zero-sum games.
It also de-emphasizes the argument itself, and puts the focus on the person you're dealing with -- what they value, how they think, and how you both can win.
If it comes down to personal attacks, nobody really wins.
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I'll look into that Red. It sounds like it's a book that teaches you how to cater to a particular audience. Not a terrible thing, provided you're not patronizing and not gravitating to like minded people.
There is one last thing I considered, pete, as I had time to think as a drove home yesterday.
It depends on one's definition of "win." Does shutting down the argument and getting the last word constitute a win? Hardly.
I must say, I like these course, nothing wrong with hearing an Oxford U prof's lecture on Great Ideas in Philosophy (a really good series with a great orator).
I just got the teach12 catalog in the mail a little while ago - I want them all !
I'd be very interested to read any reviews from someone who has any of them -
I have about 5 different courses right now, none of which I have completed (moved during two takings).
So, I've restarted Argumentation:, yadda, yadda, yadda (see above) and Great Ideas in Philosophy.
For Argumentation, the material is good, the prof is a decent lecturer (not great, but good) and the lecture makes use of real world examples (the Federalist papers, the Lincoln-Douglas Debates, etc).
The Great Ideas is perhaps the best I have. The prof, Daniel Robinson, teaches at Oxford, is an awesome orator and very interesting to listen to. He seems to have devoted his life to understanding the philosophical, psychological and political aspects of human development and intellectual history, so he has some psych lectures and a couple in the political area.
I also have "No Excuses..." a series on existentialism, a series on Plato's Republic, two language: The History of English and the development of human language, and one on William Shakespeare's plays. But I've not viewed any of these yet.
In all, I'm very happy with the ones I've watched so far and I'm sure the remainder will prove interesting and enlightening.
NOTE: Three Daniel Robinson courses are on sale. Two can be combined as a set.
Oh, and it might be beneficial to have a portable player of some sort. Since I prefer DVDs, I got a portable DVD player, but you can get these lectures as audio only and some are perfectly fine as audio only. They'll let you know if a lecture is best as A/V or fine as A only.
I have an e-mail about a sale ending Tues, so the titles I listed will fall out of favor. They cycle through the list and they'll eventually come back around, but the sale does drop the price considerably.
that sounds great! If only I had the means to listen to the DVD while driving in the car -- I'm really torn between wanting the DVD in most cases and wanting to listen while driving - maybe I'll have to get a portable DVD player first and then I can listen in the car or watch at lunchtime (without being chained to the desk) - that sort of thing. Hmm. I just had a birthday and didn't buy myself anything ... yet.
that sounds great! If only I had the means to listen to the DVD while driving in the car -- I'm really torn between wanting the DVD in most cases and wanting to listen while driving - maybe I'll have to get a portable DVD player first and then I can listen in the car or watch at lunchtime (without being chained to the desk) - that sort of thing. Hmm. I just had a birthday and didn't buy myself anything ... yet.
I got my portable from newegg and did some research before getting it. It's an Audiovox, D2011, has a best buy award and cost $160. It has a 10.2" screen and lots of features (you can hook it to an external A/V device, dual headphones, etc).
I like being able to view my DVD lectures anywhere.
Also note, sometimes they make a single lecture freely available, for survey purposes or simply as a thank you. Look on the website or call them. This might prove a good way for you to determine if this system appeals to you.
I love NewEgg - and they're local to me - so almost everything arrives the next day
I was thinking of starting with either:
Masterpieces of the Imaginative Mind: Literature’s Most Fantastic Works
(24 lectures, 30 minutes/lecture) - on sale !
or
Change and Motion: Calculus Made Clear, 2nd Edition
(24 lectures, 30 minutes/lecture) - also on sale ! or
World of Byzantium
(24 lectures, 30 minutes/lecture) - also on sale !
The sale on those ends Tuesday, so if you're going to get one or more of them, you better order quick. At $69.95 per course, I'd say it's a good buy. All of the lectures come with a booklet in each DVD case that includes an outline of the lecture. So you have your notes handed to you as well.
thanks for the heads up, though I'm sure that if those roll off, more will roll "on sale" that I'll decide I must have - very few of the titles fail to tempt me - off to check on newegg's selection of portable DVD players
The Art of Argumentation.
, 
. Strait from the Ann Coutler school of debate. This kicks ass.
Linear Mode
