The message below was sent to me by a friend. I couldn't watch more than about 20 seconds of the video, it was just too brutal. I know some might think of this as a CE topic but I didn't intend this for discussion... more of a public service announcement. I signed the petition, for what it's worth. The memory of these very intelligent creatures being slaughtered this way will haunt me for a while.
Dear Friends and Family,
If you have never taken the time to read our action alerts, please do it this one time.
Enclosed is a video clip taken from a documentary of the annual slaughter of dolphins in Japan. Each year, they kill an uncounted number that is well into the thousands. It is horrifying. They claim to do this out of tradition but the truth is that the Japanese fishermen believe the dolphins to be competitors for their fish. Please watch it; however I would recommend that your children do not. http://www.glumbert.com/media/dolphin
I believe that this is the most senseless, callous brutality I have ever witnessed.
To date, 211,692 people have signed a petition to the prime minister of Japan to stop the killing of these highly intelligent beings. Please lend your voice and stop this absolute and senseless slaughter at: http://www.PetitionOnline.com/golfinho/
I signed about 100,000 ago. I saw a report where some of the dolphin killing fishermen are now working as tourist guides for those that come to see dolphins. Tourism in some areas is more lucrative than fishing now anyway (big decline in fish populations).
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I signed about 100,000 ago. I saw a report where some of the dolphin killing fishermen are now working as tourist guides for those that come to see dolphins. Tourism in some areas is more lucrative than fishing now anyway (big decline in fish populations).
Yeah, I thought about you when I posted that and wondered about your insight on this one.
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It's got my signature, but I wonder how many outraged signatories support various forms of abortion? It would be an interesting study.
BTW, I am 237,552.
Well John, I believe in individual choice. It not me to force, by policy or law, my ideas on someone else.
I don't see this petition as the same. It's an influence, but the PM of Japan can just as easily ignore it if he/she pleases. The PM is the policy/law maker, not protesters.
With all that said, you'll likely see me at a pro-life rally than a pro-choice.
It is a pretty harsh video. The dolphins are killed in a very inhumane way. I wonder what offends viewers?
Is it the death of the dolphins?
Is it the perhaps unnecessary suffering of the dolphins?
Is it because the viewers are not fond of dolphin meat?
Now before you are jump all over me and start calling me an inhumane monster, please realize I am not condoning this slaughter. I just wonder how we of the high protien diet feel about beef harvesting. If you think it is any less brutal you really ought to take a look at some of the secret tapes that have been smuggled out of beef processing factories in the US. (or give Fast Food Nation a read to see how meat is REALLY harvested in the US)
So does that justify this? I am not saying it does, but there is certainly a feeling of a double standard in Japan among some regarding these kinds of issues. Rocks and glass houses and all that...
On the bright side, as Kuri has said, fisherman have found there is more money in promoting dolphins as "cute" creature than in killing them. For these fisherman, it is simple an economic issue. Japan is the "land of the cute" where people will pay silly amounts of money to see or touch cute things, so there has been a shift.
On the dark side, the petition will have NO impact in Japan. Japan is now very actively lobbying for the lifting of the commercial whale ban.
On this one they have a pretty good case in that some whale stocks have recovered to the point where they could survive some commercial fishing. So why not? Well, we in the west don't eat whale (though we are happy to exempt ournative peoples/iniut from the bans). Japanese have traditionally eaten whale meat*, so what is the problem since the whale numbers have recovered to a a degree that it is feasable to allow some commercialzed fishing?
Food for thought, wouldn't you say?
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Peter
After all, diamonds are a girl's best friend…
I know that the Japanese culture is different than ours, but this is just wrong. I didn't get past the dolphin twitching after having it's throat cut. Where are those crazies from Green Peace when you need them?
I do not disagree with you. But have a look at the beef industry, or any meat harvesting industry and all of them are atrocious. Please do not think I am trying to excuse the brutality of it on cultural grounds. I am not.
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Peter
After all, diamonds are a girl's best friend…
I do not disagree with you. But have a look at the beef industry, or any meat harvesting industry and all of them are atrocious. Please do not think I am trying to excuse the brutality of it on cultural grounds. I am not.
Yeah, I took some animal science classes in college and got to see a slaughtering demonstration. Live steer comes in, packaged meat goes out. They attempted to killed the animals quickly (humanely?) with a metal rod shot into the brain from a gun-like device. So, to me, there's one difference, the intent to kill humanely. However, they missed the first time in our demonstration because the animal moved and only got grazed but obviously was in a lot of distress about what was happening to it. The second shot killed it immediately.
I've seen videos about how they kill chickens... basically, they are stapped onto a conveyor belt that runs them past a device that pulls their heads off.
I think that the dolphins are more intelligent creatures and possibly more sentient entities. If that's the case, then maybe we feel that they are closer to us so we project ourselves in the situation, especially with the commentator saying things like "the babies crying out for their mothers."
A hundred years ago, you could probably count the number of people concerned about "animal rights" on one hand because we were all a lot closer in time to a life that was a more brutal, based on our standards now. That's just an opinion... I don't have anything to back that up. I do know a number of people who are vegetarians because of their stand on animal cruelty (dos is one, I believe) so I think we (our culture?) have changed over time. I'm assume the Japanese have had this custom for some time (?) and it's just carried forward and they probably don't think any about it.
However, times change and we change. Maybe there is no absolute standard for what is acceptable and what is not but, like I said initially, I couldn't watch this for even 20 seconds without having to turn it off so it definitely offends me and I expressed that via the petition. If enough opinions agree on the same position, they sometimes can change the actions of others... and that's the point.
I think that two things differentiate the beef industry from this activity. First is the intent. As Brad states, the intent in the beef industry is kill humanely. It may not happen every time, but that is the intent. In this video, it's just cruel killing. No bullet to the brain, no tranquilizer, just slit the throat and walk away leaving the animal convulsing as it bleeds to death.
The other difference is the reason for the killing. Beef cattle are raised to be eaten. Unless I missed something in the story, the dolphin are killed because they compete with the fisherman for their food. I understand that the video was made by someone opposed to the killing, but no mention was made of deriving any other benefit from the process.
Now, I'm going to say something which may offend some people. Is Japan a cruel society? How can school children just walk past this like nothing unusual was going on? Is anyone in Japan bothered by this? Is this the same country who committed so many atrocities in World War II like the rape of Nankang or the treatment of Allied prisoners of war? I could almost justify this type of activity in a subsistence fishing, third world country, but not in one of the richest countries in the world.
I don't mean to offend any individuals here by these questions and I'm sure there are aspects of American culture that others would find repugnant, but I just can't see how this is justified.
Now, I'm going to say something which may offend some people. Is Japan a cruel society? How can school children just walk past this like nothing unusual was going on? Is anyone in Japan bothered by this? Is this the same country who committed so many atrocities in World War II like the rape of Nankang or the treatment of Allied prisoners of war? I could almost justify this type of activity in a subsistence fishing, third world country, but not in one of the richest countries in the world.
I don't think that's fair.
The more you learn about history, the more you learn that every country has a similar shadow on its past. (Younger countries like my Canada less so, but our ancestors have more before we sailed over the pond).
In terms of children walking past this, if they were raised right next to it, then yes it would seem usual. Take bear-baiting in the heritage of most of us who are of European descent. Or any number of other examples.
In terms of the rape on Nanjing, I think if you read into history you will find that countries have done unspeakably cruel things to people who are not "like them" pretty much across the board.
Not saying it's right, I'm just saying I don't think it's Japan-specific.
I can provide the examples I speak of if you would like them. (What's this? My history major has an application? Rock On!!)
"It is of interest to note that while some dolphins are reported to have learned English - up to fifty words used in correct context - no human being has been reported to have learned dolphinese." - Carl Sagan
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I think that two things differentiate the beef industry from this activity. First is the intent. As Brad states, the intent in the beef industry is kill humanely. It may not happen every time, but that is the intent. In this video, it's just cruel killing. No bullet to the brain, no tranquilizer, just slit the throat and walk away leaving the animal convulsing as it bleeds to death.
Bill and Q. both made the point of "intent" to kill humanely. Had this been 20 years ago, I might have been inclined to agree with you. But the only intent in the beef industry is to maximize profit. Effective regulation is close to non-exisitent. This is one reason (probably the main one) for the increase in 0157 cases (aka e-coli). Again, I am not excusing the sluaghter of the dolphins, but rather pointing out that it is not that different that what the beef industry (I choose this because cows are also fairly intelligent and are mammals) does. Because of the scale of the cattle processed, the actual suffering caused by the beef industry is undoubtable much higher/larger.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill2380
The other difference is the reason for the killing. Beef cattle are raised to be eaten. Unless I missed something in the story, the dolphin are killed because they compete with the fisherman for their food. I understand that the video was made by someone opposed to the killing, but no mention was made of deriving any other benefit from the process.
It is sold as "whale meat" which is expensive and there is a good profit margin on that. As far as the "killing the competitor" line... I do not know if that is true, but I do know that fishermen DO eat dolphin.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill2380
Now, I'm going to say something which may offend some people. Is Japan a cruel society? How can school children just walk past this like nothing unusual was going on? Is anyone in Japan bothered by this? Is this the same country who committed so many atrocities in World War II like the rape of Nankang or the treatment of Allied prisoners of war? I could almost justify this type of activity in a subsistence fishing, third world country, but not in one of the richest countries in the world.
I do not think you intention is to be offensive, so for my part I am not offended. I think that if you or I were to walk by slaugherhouse we would feel sickened, but children who walked by it on a regular basis would not see anything out of the ordinary.
As far as Nanking and treatment of POWs: Japan has an atrocious past, but it is certainly no worse that that opf Nazi Germany, but it is quite easy to see that germany is quite different from Nazi Germany. I think that Japan merits that same consideration.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill2380
I don't mean to offend any individuals here by these questions and I'm sure there are aspects of American culture that others would find repugnant, but I just can't see how this is justified.
Again Bill, I am not trying to justify it. I was/am just suggesting that there is not much difference in the cruelty of the beef industry, perhaps "we" (I used we in my original post because I am a beef eater) beefeaters have some food for thought.
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Peter
After all, diamonds are a girl's best friend…
I don't mean to offend any individuals here by these questions and I'm sure there are aspects of American culture that others would find repugnant, but I just can't see how this is justified.
I'm not sure that really places the Japanese as a whole on any different ground than us. Hell, we use animals to test cosmetics. Pretty much every large society on Earth has some instances where numerous members have actively or passively supported acts that most of us would consider immoral. The scary thing is we also have a pretty good ability to demonize those acts when others do them but rationalize how it's ok when we do them. If "they" do it it's wrong. If "we" do it it's ok. I think all of us are guilty of that, just to different degrees.
I don't really have a problem with killing an animal for food. And I can't say I've never been guilty of passively supporting actions I don't agree with. The sad fact is we were designed to eat other animals. The only thing I'd really like to see done is:
1) The animals we eat are able to replenish themselves at the same rate we eat them.
2) The animals are allowed to live in something close to natural conditions until they're killed.
3) We kill them as humanely as possible, even if it costs a little more.
4) As much of the body should be used for some purpose as possible.
I don't expect any of that to happen anytime soon though. Profit talks louder than any animal rights activist (sane or insane).
1) The animals we eat are able to replenish themselves at the same rate we eat them.
2) The animals are allowed to live in something close to natural conditions until they're killed.
3) We kill them as humanely as possible, even if it costs a little more.
4) As much of the body should be used for some purpose as possible.
I don't expect any of that to happen anytime soon though. Profit talks louder than any animal rights activist (sane or insane).
I don't really buy much beef anymore but, not too long ago, we were buying grass fed beef regularly that never saw a feedlot. I do buy a lot of wild salmon, not farm raised, but that's for my own health's sake, not the salmon. I have read that we are fishing the oceans dry... not a sustainable situation (re: animals replenishing themselves).
I don't pretend to believe that we can change the world or escape contradiction but I think it does more good, in terms of awareness, to say SOMETHING rather than to sit passively by and say nothing.
Dolphin Slaughter in Japan
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